New Ferrari 488 GTB Raises the Bar Again

[blodi]

You do realize that 3+ years to market is actually very good for a new car and that this process and schedule is same for every manufacturer, right?

I don't understand this bitchfest over Honda taking time (3 years) to research, design, plan, and build a brand new NSX that is this good: twin turbo, hybrid motor integration, SH-AWD, longitudinal engine (change done in 18 months), big 'ole brakes, and a beautiful interior. Should they design the NSX for Ferraris that aren't even in the idea stage yet? Sheesh.

+1. I don't know why people think cars are developed so quickly. I've been working on my project at work for the last year and half that is due out for the '18 model year. Honda simply just decided to "show it's hand" a bit sooner to get people interested.
People are also always tricked by the "concept" car. "Oh, they really made the production car look a lot like the concept". Newsflash: the concept car was designed probably 3-4 years after the production car was.

Back to the OP.... the 488 looks great, nice update...awesome figures. I'm not sold on those side intakes yet, but the rear view is absolutely stunning.

 

[sahtt]

I am glad it took a while; however you want to define that. We are in the midst of a giant step forward in performance car engineering and design. The new NSX's vision joins a very small club of the most sophisticated and highest performing sportscars in history- P1, 918, et cetera. Given Honda hasn't even made a sportscar since the end of the S2000 in 2009, the fact they are investing so heavily in the NSX is surprising in a positive way to me.

 

[davidf]

LOL, ditto.

^^^this^^^

 

[BamaFan]

You do realize that 3+ years to market is actually very good for a new car and that this process and schedule is same for every manufacturer, right?

I don't understand this bitchfest over Honda taking time (3 years) to research, design, plan, and build a brand new NSX that is this good: twin turbo, hybrid motor integration, SH-AWD, longitudinal engine (change done in 18 months), big 'ole brakes, and a beautiful interior. Should they design the NSX for Ferraris that aren't even in the idea stage yet? Sheesh.

I respectfully disagree. This wasn't about a three year development cycle. Acura began actively marketing the car three years ago. They showed it in Detroit, paid to have Tony Stark driving it in The Avengers in early 2012, and ran it in a Super Bowl ad. That left an impression with the general public that it was very close to launching or was already available. That allowed it to become "stale" well before anyone could purchase it. Big mistake with a car in this class.

I still love it, though.:smile:

 

[QUICKIE]

......Lambos with their V10 and V12 are bulky, big, heavy and unnecessary.

LOL !! The weight for the new NSX is said to be about 3700 lbs. ..... The new V-10 Lambo Huracan only weighs 3420 lbs.
So, who's the fatty now ???

 

[2slow2speed]

It's really funny to see that with every new Ferrari that it has to be a successor of the previous model. Now, the value of the 430 and 458 are going down to hell. 355 and 360 are already down there and wait for a buyer like on a big junkyard. Product differentiation is not their strength.

Seriously that is a very myopic view of things. It's like saying that it is great to still be using a 1st generation iPhone after we are up to iPhone6.

A typical Ferrari owner probably has money to burn, and could care less about depreciation, "normal" car owners expect to have an updated model of their car after x number of years.

 

[mark0006]

Ferrari 458 Italia vs 488 GTB





Here is a picture gallery comparing the two cars from all angles.


13 pictures and full article


.

 

[blue_myriddn]

Thanks for that link of the comparisons. I will wait until I see it in person to really be sure, but so far the new one looks a lot uglier to me than the old one (which was very lovely in my opinion)

 

[NZNick]

The 488 isn't a new car, simply an evolution of the 458, the next V8 Ferrari will be a new car.
The 488 isn't a direct competitor for the new NSX as it doesn't have electrical power assistance, just a petrol engine.
It will be seen by some as competition, as it will be in a price bracket which includes the 2 cars - ie. lots, but not mega lots.
The new NSX brings the technology of the (limited production) McLaren P1, Porsche 918, and LaFerrari to the "masses" at a price point below competitors' non e-assisted offerings, and without the extreme HP that make those cars unaffordable.....

 

[Olyar15]

In what world do you live in where a 458, let alone the 488, is a direct competitor of the NSX? Last I saw, a new 458 is somewhere north of $300k, so about twice what the NSX will go for. By the same token, the NSX is a competitor to the new Miata, since those two are closer in price than the NSX to the 458.

 

[N Spec]

The 488 isn't a new car, simply an evolution of the 458, the next V8 Ferrari will be a new car.
The 488 isn't a direct competitor for the new NSX as it doesn't have electrical power assistance, just a petrol engine.
It will be seen by some as competition, as it will be in a price bracket which includes the 2 cars - ie. lots, but not mega lots.
The new NSX brings the technology of the (limited production) McLaren P1, Porsche 918, and LaFerrari to the "masses" at a price point below competitors' non e-assisted offerings, and without the extreme HP that make those cars unaffordable.....

It's not a direct competitor, but the comparisons will still be made and plenty will come. I can't wait for the head to head line and comparisons honestly. Hopefully they will be unbiased as in not letting the brand history and image blind the actual results.

 

[MoreRPMs]

don't say the letters L-F-A to N Spec, he goes absolutely mental at the mere mention of that car...

Seems like him going mental is a regular occurrence. I picture a 30 year old viet cong "kid" with a 3 monitor setup, his eyes fixated on one car forum per screen, monitoring peoples' opinions 18 waking hours/day and crusading against imaginary foes. Somebody should tell him we don't need his smarmy "history" lessons.

- - - Updated - - -

You asked for sports cars that took a long time for a successor. I gave you sports cars that still don't have successors. So logically, the mere introduction of a new NSX would get you hot and bothered…nope.

Your reading comprehension surely must be in the bottom quintile. Read my post again, boy.

 

[fastaussie]

In what world do you live in where a 458, let alone the 488, is a direct competitor of the NSX? Last I saw, a new 458 is somewhere north of $300k, so about twice what the NSX will go for. By the same token, the NSX is a competitor to the new Miata, since those two are closer in price than the NSX to the 458.

to my recollection, a new Ferrari 458 base model lists at around $225,000. problem is, the car is so sought after that it regularly sells for north of $300,000 and has as much as a 2-year waiting list for a brand new one. and even used ones can fetch in excess of $300,000. that says a hell of a lot about that car. if the new NSX will be based at a price of $150,000 to $170,000 then I'd say it's a lot closer in price to the 458/488 than to the Miata at what? $25,000? was that really a serious statement?

regardless, the new NSX is in direct comparison to the 458, the Lamborghini Huracan, the Audi R8, the McLaren 650S, and the Porsche 911 Turbo S to name a few. these cars all exist within the same performance spectrum and demographic, regardless of price. they will all be compared against each other in magazines, online videos and on the bedroom walls of teenagers...

 

[N Spec]

Seems like him going mental is a regular occurrence. I picture a 30 year old viet cong "kid" with a 3 monitor setup, his eyes fixated on one car forum per screen, monitoring peoples' opinions 18 waking hours/day and crusading against imaginary foes. Somebody should tell him we don't need his smarmy "history" lessons.

- - - Updated - - -


Your reading comprehension surely must be in the bottom quintile. Read my post again, boy.

Aww, don't be butthurt because I told you to stop whining and do something progressive about it lol. Learn about some car history and sales before you try to complain with no resolution. Honda making history again, and you're the one crying in your sleep over a 20 year old legacy.

 

[Bram]

There is only one design aspects of the New 488GTB I like more than the 458, and this is the rear end. The 458 to me is a cleaner design, and I like the NA engine too.

Bram

 

[fastaussie]

Honda making history again, and you're the one crying in your sleep over a 20 year old legacy.

what's the history being made mate? Honda claimed they were gonna be the first to make a hybrid Supercar a few years back when they introduced the new NSX, but last I checked Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche beat Honda to it...

 

[N Spec]

what's the history being made mate? Honda claimed they were gonna be the first to make a hybrid Supercar a few years back when they introduced the new NSX, but last I checked Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche beat Honda to it...

That's debatable considering the hypercars made by those three automakers are not practically obtainable and are pretty much all spoken for. I wouldn't even consider them to be production vehicles really given their outrageous price tag and extremely low volume. The 458 didn't break any new ground, but it still earned it's place in history with balanced benchmarks, albeit the mentioned costly package and obtain-ability.

People are already expressing huge difference between the 458 and new NSX's price point/market. Consider the 7 figure price point for those hypercars and the low 6 price point of the NSX. Honda is offering border-line hypercar performance at a fraction of the costs that is essentially much more accessible than those mentioned cars. The new NSX is going to make history if they can execute what they plan later this year properly.

The rumor from Top Gear's own site is that the new NSX will beat the Tesla and GTR's 0-60 comfortably. That means under 3 seconds for sure as both cars have been clocked doing 2.7-2.8 0-60. So we know the NSX is going to be able to launch fast and most likely blaze the 1/4 mile also at that rate.

The only other factor is the handling/lap times. I believe it will not have many issues in this department also considering the extensive testing they have and are still doing.

 

[goldNSX]

Seriously that is a very myopic view of things. It's like saying that it is great to still be using a 1st generation iPhone after we are up to iPhone6.

Not at all. Nobody today works seriously on the first Apple Computer anymore, they are collectors items. People are proud to own one and start it up from time to time to get some memories back. The NSX is one of the best cars of the 90ies. Same here. It's a collectors item.

A typical Ferrari owner probably has money to burn, and could care less about depreciation, "normal" car owners expect to have an updated model of their car after x number of years.

Fully agree. A F355 or F360 is not an collectors item like a NSX or a Porsche 993 are.

 

[stuntman]

People are already expressing huge difference between the 458 and new NSX's price point/market. Consider the 7 figure price point for those hypercars and the low 6 price point of the NSX. Honda is offering border-line hypercar performance at a fraction of the costs that is essentially much more accessible than those mentioned cars. The new NSX is going to make history if they can execute what they plan later this year properly.

The rumor from Top Gear's own site is that the new NSX will beat the Tesla and GTR's 0-60 comfortably. That means under 3 seconds for sure as both cars have been clocked doing 2.7-2.8 0-60. So we know the NSX is going to be able to launch fast and most likely blaze the 1/4 mile also at that rate.

The only other factor is the handling/lap times. I believe it will not have many issues in this department also considering the extensive testing they have and are still doing.

I'm not sure you can say the NSX will offer 'borderline hypercar performance'. By the sounds of it, the NSX will be priced similarly to the R8 and GTR Nismo rather than the more expensive 458/488, 650S, FGT (probably), Huracan. The NSX was targeting the performance of the 458 and while it may have impressive acceleration to 60, those 7 figure hypercars have some serious legs (300hp+) on any of the mentioned 6-figure supercars.

I agree that the NSX brings high performing hybrid technology to the masses, to perform as well (or quicker) than the benchmark 458/650S' which cost a lot more, but it's not going to be P1/LAF/918 performance.

0.02

Fully agree. A F355 or F360 is not an collectors item like a NSX or a Porsche 993 are.

I'm not sure i'd call a 993 a 'collectors' item since there were almost 50,000 built worldwide. I would say the 5-valve F355 will be since it's arguably the best sounding Ferrari V8 ever.

 

[goldNSX]

I'm not sure i'd call a 993 a 'collectors' item since there were almost 50,000 built worldwide. I would say the 5-valve F355 will be since it's arguably the best sounding Ferrari V8 ever.

I related the 993 to the asking prices for good cars, not the amount of units made. That's the better variable to observe. It was the last air-cooled sportscar and will be that for some very long time. Their prices go up while the F355 goes down in the last 10 years.

That's the problem Ferrari has. A F355 or F360 or not special anymore. The one who has the money will buy a new one but there's no one buying his used Ferrrari.

 

[blue_myriddn]

That's the problem Ferrari has. A F355 or F360 or not special anymore. The one who has the money will buy a new one but there's no one buying his used Ferrrari.

You are correct about the downturn on 360s, but inaccurate on the F355. Demand on a good F355s is very solid and prices have been on the rise.

This is just the standard up and down depreciation curve. The NSX endured the same fate. I don't see this as being "the problem Ferrari has" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[gleibig]

 

[fastaussie]

You are correct about the downturn on 360s, but inaccurate on the F355. Demand on a good F355s is very solid and prices have been on the rise.

This is just the standard up and down depreciation curve. The NSX endured the same fate. I don't see this as being "the problem Ferrari has" by any stretch of the imagination.

i'd agree with you on that, i don't think Ferrari has any problems in its road car department. and the cost of a clean, low mileage 360 still easily outpaces a late model, low mileage NSX. and there are a lot more 360's on the market. and 355's are definitely in demand, a mate of mine just bought one.

That's debatable considering the hypercars made by those three automakers are not practically obtainable and are pretty much all spoken for. I wouldn't even consider them to be production vehicles really given their outrageous price tag and extremely low volume. The 458 didn't break any new ground, but it still earned it's place in history with balanced benchmarks, albeit the mentioned costly package and obtain-ability.

i get your point, which is that Honda will offer the hybrid Supercar technology at a cheaper price than the three manufacturers that brought it to market first. but it is absolutely not debatable that the three manufacturers that brought it to market first, did indeed bring it to market first. whether you consider them unobtainable or completely sold out makes absolutely no difference. and it's also not debatable that they're production vehicles. they may be low volume production vehicles, but they are still in fact production vehicles. these things are all completely non debatable.

to the average American, whom are much better off and have a much higher degree of disposable wealth than most other countries, an NSX, a Ferrari, a GTR, an Audi R8 or even a used base model Porsche Cayman are all in the same category, i.e., out of reach for most. maybe the potential buyer for the new NSX, or an R8 can't afford a McLaren 650S, but these cars will all be grouped together in comparisons of everything, including price range. the demographic of people that can afford any of these cars is already a small percentage of the population.

the complaints of the car taking so long to be produced are probably warranted by how long Honda has promised or teased to actually bring it to market. it's understandable in my mind. Ford didn't even tell anyone they were making a new GT (it was a rumour), and Ferrari similarly just dropped the 488 on everyone. no Superbowl ads three years ago, no teaser videos, no talk for a decade. they just quietly did the business, and slammed everyone's jaws on the floor. all with final specs at their vehicle's release. i think that is more the point of everyone's disdain with their marketing strategy, or whatever Honda calls it these days...

 

[NSX-SA]

i get your point, which is that Honda will offer the hybrid Supercar technology at a cheaper price than the three manufacturers that brought it to market first. but it is absolutely not debatable that the three manufacturers that brought it to market first, did indeed bring it to market first. whether you consider them unobtainable or completely sold out makes absolutely no difference. and it's also not debatable that they're production vehicles. they may be low volume production vehicles, but they are still in fact production vehicles. these things are all completely non debatable.

to the average American, whom are much better off and have a much higher degree of disposable wealth than most other countries, an NSX, a Ferrari, a GTR, an Audi R8 or even a used base model Porsche Cayman are all in the same category, i.e., out of reach for most. maybe the potential buyer for the new NSX, or an R8 can't afford a McLaren 650S, but these cars will all be grouped together in comparisons of everything, including price range. the demographic of people that can afford any of these cars is already a small percentage of the population.

the complaints of the car taking so long to be produced are probably warranted by how long Honda has promised or teased to actually bring it to market. it's understandable in my mind. Ford didn't even tell anyone they were making a new GT (it was a rumour), and Ferrari similarly just dropped the 488 on everyone. no Superbowl ads three years ago, no teaser videos, no talk for a decade. they just quietly did the business, and slammed everyone's jaws on the floor. all with final specs at their vehicle's release. i think that is more the point of everyone's disdain with their marketing strategy, or whatever Honda calls it these days...

+1 well said sums up what most of us have thought.

 

[areout]

There is only a one design aspects of the New 488GTB I like more that the 458, and this is the rear end. The 458 to me is a cleaner design, and I like the NA engine too.

Bram

I don't understand going turbo in their case, 15% more power at that point and retaining almost same fuel consumption for sacrificing the sound and drivability of NA engine, even reliability