My store got robbed today.

[Cairo94507]

BAD IDEA. I can only imagine the outcome of an untrained employee pulling a gun in a crowded store against two armed idiots. Bett er to give the thieves what they want. After all, it's only money, and it's not even theirs.

I second that! This is a horrible idea and the best way to end up with a dead employee or customer.
The best thing to do is install a top quality digital surveillance system that records everything and backs up to a computer. The cameras should be damn near concealled and of course, color images. If you do not already have the height measurement tape on the exit doors, think 7-11, install that to be able to get a height on the criminals.
Then I would install a cheap black and white camera that is visible and obvious as a decoy.
Then, God forbid, you get robbed again, police will have excellent quality color pictures to identify the culprits and prosecute them. Make sure your cameras cover you entire store, you never know it could also have the collateral benefit of preventing any internal problems one might experience.
Believe me I have looked at a lot of surveillance camera images from stores like the one you may have and 90% of the time they are useless because the quality is so bad-worthless. Very frustrating when you need to ID the bad guy.

 

[Cairo94507]

I think there isn't enough brutality and punishment to deter crime anymore in some of the more lawless and uncivilized areas of America. While it is noble for some victims to rationalize their loss as being "only" monetary, it only gives additional incentive for crooks to continue to commit the crimes that they do. Plus, with the short staffing of law enforcement many jurisdictions have around the country, the increased reluctance to continue risky vehicle pursuits due to liabilties, and the court systems inability, at times, to make charges "stick," who wouldn't take a risk if they had nothing to lose?

Well, tell you what, the first time you roll up on an accident with an entire family that has been killed because some rookie cop was chasing a car with expired registration, then you tell me about cops chasing cars. If it were up to me the only reason that would support a pursuit are the absolute most serious felony crimes: murder, kidnap, etc. The worst thing is a lot of the times, the cops know exactly who they are chasing and chase them anyway. With technology as it is today, it is not really necessary to chase people down the freeway at 130 MPH in moderate traffic or down the city streets at 90MPH.

 

[robr]

You can't force an inmate to work, if the job is too tough, they refuse and the only recourse is to put them in SHU and take away privileges such as visitors, phone and commissary. I made $0.12/hour in prison raking goose $hit and picking up cigarette butts all day (I had other jobs as well during my 16 months there, but that was the $hittiest one, literally). There are also security concerns, unless someone is 'community custody' level, you can't let them outside of the confines of the prison to work on roads. Actually my experience was federal, there are no federal roads to work on, but I assume state is the same (ie the guys in the orange jumpsuits you see on the sides of the highway picking up trash are community custody level). We had one guy that basically voluntarily 'broke rocks'. He owned a huge residential home building company and spent several years with a backhoe building a decorative rock wall all around the prison entrance road. Probably 4000' of it as well as a break area in the woods for the COs. It would have cost the prison tens if not hundreds of thousands to have had that done privately. It's how the guy chose to spend his time and the prison would typically give him a $100 bonus around Christmas time. I think he was paid $0.40/hour which was the max you could make where I was (no Unicor).

 

[zahntech]

Well first of all white collar crimes should not be punished the same way as Murder, rape, armed robery, ect ect

And as far as "can't make an inmate to work" well I would have no problem with them being beaten into submission.

After all it is Jail, and if you raped an 11 year old girl ..your life should be miserable

 

[robr]

Well first of all white collar crimes should not be punished the same way as Murder, rape, armed robery, ect ect

And as far as "can't make an inmate to work" well I would have no problem with them being beaten into submission.

After all it is Jail, and if you raped an 11 year old girl ..your life should be miserable

you might not have a problem with it, but there are laws against that sort of thing, not to mention all the people who were cleared of their crimes by DNA evidence decades later.

 

[zahntech]

Life is not fair.


I would be curious how many persons have been convicted that had absolutely nothing to do with the crime they were charged with.

 

[NimbleSexyXquisite]

Life is not fair.


I would be curious how many persons have been convicted that had absolutely nothing to do with the crime they were charged with.

Unfortunately more than there should be. And dont forget the other way around. OJ? :tongue:

That's why fellow prime members plead the 5th. Dont let the cops pressure you to a confession that is not true.

take care yall.

 

[ChopsJazz]

This thread has taken quite a turn. Criminal "Justice" is an interesting field, one that is filled with plenty of loopholes and contradictions. Often there is no "justice" at all.

My father was a prison guard in San Quentin for years and has seen the worst of them. In fact, he was on Death Row when Sirhan Sirhan and Charles Mansion were there. He walked a man to the gas chamber once.

It's true that many prisoners are there under false pretenses. It's also true that prisoners have a relatively "luxurious" life-style filled with color TV, radios, libraries, sports and exrecise. But make no mistake, it's awful in there. "Beating someone into submission" may seem like justice to you, but sometimes we just have to let the system, as circuitous and broken as it is, run its course. It feels awful when the system lets someone who seems obviously guilty (OJ) slip through its safeguards, but those safeguards are there to protect us from being convicted of crimes we didn't commit.

 

[ericwgnsx]

I would recommend a firearm for any business owner that deals with large amounts of cash or valuables...IF they are willing to put in the discipline, training and understanding of the law that it takes to responsibly keep a firearm on the premises.
Cooperation is not always the safest course of action in a robbery situation.
The criminals may still kill you even if you do everything that they ask. Or they may kill you just for the heck of it...or for fun...or eliminating any witnesses may have been a part of their plan all along...all very unpredictable.
The good news is that many criminals will retreat at just the sight of a gun in the hands of their intended victims, especially if they just want an easy robbery and want to avoid a possible murder rap.
Good Luck!
Definitely get a surveillance/video system too.

 

[zahntech]

Table 1 Total Reported Crimes for Selected Asia-Pacific Cities, 1991
Per 100,000 Population

Ranking Country City Rate
1 USA Philadelphia (1990) 23,245
2 USA Detroit (1990) 16,142
3 Canada Montreal (1990) 13,255
4 USA Houston (1990) 11,453
5 USA Chicago (1990) 11,286
6 USA New York (1987) 10,019
7 USA Los Angeles (1987) 9,676
8 Korea Pusan (1990) 8,006
9 Australia Sydney (1986) 7,713
10 Australia Brisbane (1986) 5,699
11 Korea Seoul 2,846
12 Japan Osaka 2,810
13 Japan Fukuoka 2,735
14 Japan Hiroshima 2,626
15 Japan Tokyo 2,427
16 Japan Sapporo 2,284
17 Japan Nagoya 2,026
18 Singapore Singapore 1,934
19 Japan Kyoto 1,681
20 Japan Kobe 1,448
21 Japan Yokohama 1,209


Looks like heavy punishment for violent crime works pretty well to me..if you notice the US "Read books,lift weights" form of punishment seems to have brought us to the top rankings in crime.

 

[evel333]

Well, tell you what, the first time you roll up on an accident with an entire family that has been killed because some rookie cop was chasing a car with expired registration, then you tell me about cops chasing cars. If it were up to me the only reason that would support a pursuit are the absolute most serious felony crimes: murder, kidnap, etc. The worst thing is a lot of the times, the cops know exactly who they are chasing and chase them anyway. With technology as it is today, it is not really necessary to chase people down the freeway at 130 MPH in moderate traffic or down the city streets at 90MPH.

I agree. I'm a 911 dispatcher and we cancel pursuits all the time for minor offences, but you'll be surprised how many pursuits of more serious criminals are ALSO canceled due to the risk of public safety. I'm against the killing of innocents in the crossfire as much as the next guy, but if you look at it from a criminal standpoint, it's unfortunate that many criminals will continue to commit because they know the chances of them escaping are greater now that they were a decade or more ago.

 

[evel333]

Well first of all white collar crimes should not be punished the same way as Murder, rape, armed robery, ect ect

And as far as "can't make an inmate to work" well I would have no problem with them being beaten into submission.

After all it is Jail, and if you raped an 11 year old girl ..your life should be miserable

Much of the prison system has become more focused on rehabilitation than punishment. The convicted are isolated from rest of society, but with all the media and printed resources available for one to learn and grow, as well as all the physical fitness options, it seems to me that few are truly "punished." People become so worried about cruel & unusual punishments or the plights of wrongfully convicted people, but if you mold the system in response to the exceptions, (as much of this country seems to do, not only with the prison system) you open up more holes and cracks for true criminals to slip through.

 

[ChopsJazz]

I would recommend a firearm for any business owner that deals with large amounts of cash or valuables...IF they are willing to put in the discipline, training and understanding of the law that it takes to responsibly keep a firearm on the premises.
Cooperation is not always the safest course of action

I would hate to work for any company that had to train me on how to use a gun to protect their money.

 

[ericwgnsx]

I would hate to work for any company that had to train me on how to use a gun to protect their money.

My post was meant to apply to the motivated and dedicated small business owner protecting his life/livelihood, not the typical employee. The scenario you described would be a bad idea - for many reasons.

 

[robr]

Much of the prison system has become more focused on rehabilitation than punishment. The convicted are isolated from rest of society, but with all the media and printed resources available for one to learn and grow, as well as all the physical fitness options, it seems to me that few are truly "punished." People become so worried about cruel & unusual punishments or the plights of wrongfully convicted people, but if you mold the system in response to the exceptions, (as much of this country seems to do, not only with the prison system) you open up more holes and cracks for true criminals to slip through.

There is virtually NO rehab at all going on in the US prison system, it is VERY focused on punishment. Rehab is not really a consideration. You may hear about courses and training and physical fitness, etc but that's complete BS. The only types of "courses" offered to us were (I'm not kidding) "how to brush your teeth properly", "how to protect yourself from getting a VD", "how to get a job (at a fast food restaurant or walmart) when you get out", etc. The only "training materials" that were of use were ones inmates ordered or had family send in and were willing to place in the library when they were done with them. Weights are no longer allowed in federal prison unless they already have them (grandfathered). If the equipment breaks, it is not replaced. We had to post lookouts and work out with medicine balls in laundry bags hanging on mop handles to lift weights. If you were caught working out like that, depending on the CO, you could be in some deep doo-doo.

BTW, when media or outside "accreditation" parties came in, I've seen the prison pull PCs out of storage and set up a "classroom" to show these people. We were warned to stay FAR FAR away from this "classroom" and PCs were always strictly off limits. I was lucky I had access to a typewriter from time to time (mostly in use by all the attorneys writing appeals that were also in prison and when those broke, it could take months to get them fixed or get replacements).

If you really want to read up first-hand on what goes on in our prisons, I highly recommend the prisontalk forums (www.prisontalk.com/forums). You'd be amazed how much info is available there.
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