2000 NSX, at track yesterday abs is TERRIBLE. I can't imagine how bad the early versions were if mine is considered upgraded. I have searched and found pulling fuses and the emergency brake trick (which does not work on my car). Question, has anyone wired in a switch to deactivate, but one that would do so W/O lighting up the the indicator? If not I could live with one that disabled but light would indicate. If so I would appreciate your sharing. Mark S
My ABS sucks would like to 'switch' it.
- Thread starter Mark S
- Start date
Can you give more info?
I don't understand why you'd be activating ABS enough to notice and consider it lacking. If you're in the ABS a lot, you either have a brake imbalance, need to work on technique, or the track you were on has places that induce lockup. What track were you one, and does this track have a lot of places where a wheel is unloaded under braking requiring the ABS to come on?
How much trailbraking were you doing? Can you describe why you think the ABS sucks?
I agree, more detail is necessary.
The point at which the ABS engages (in my '92) is the same point at which the wheels would otherwise lock up. In fact it will usually allow a very brief lock (puff of tire smoke) before engaging. That means you are at the limit of deceleration of that car/tire combination. Disabling the ABS, in this situation is a really bad idea unless you are well versed in threshold braking/pedal modulation. It's better just to treat ABS engagement as a lockup situation and modulate the pedal a little to get back out of it, but maintain deceleration.
The only think I can think of is what dquarasr2 was getting at. If you hit rough pavement or a small bump the ABS can slip into "ice mode" (Or it would in my MR2, haven't encountered this in the NSX yet), but most tracks I have been on are way too smooth for that to be the case.
The point at which the ABS engages (in my '92) is the same point at which the wheels would otherwise lock up. In fact it will usually allow a very brief lock (puff of tire smoke) before engaging. That means you are at the limit of deceleration of that car/tire combination. Disabling the ABS, in this situation is a really bad idea unless you are well versed in threshold braking/pedal modulation. It's better just to treat ABS engagement as a lockup situation and modulate the pedal a little to get back out of it, but maintain deceleration.
The only think I can think of is what dquarasr2 was getting at. If you hit rough pavement or a small bump the ABS can slip into "ice mode" (Or it would in my MR2, haven't encountered this in the NSX yet), but most tracks I have been on are way too smooth for that to be the case.
ABS is activating under hard braking coming down from 110+MPH at end of straight, asphalt is baby butt smooth. The problem (why I think the ABS sucks) is when ABS hit's it mildly upset's the car and greatly upset's me when it goes into it's pulse off and on mode. It seems as if the pulses are in seconds rather than milli seconds. It does the decel chirp, decel chip until I'm at corner entry speed off brakes on throttle. As R13 states I'm sure it is close to limit of decel but I have other cars with much narrower tires, no ABS, same end speed and I have learned to brake to threshold W/O locking tires, to me a car feels much better when I'm in total control. Granted those cars are lighter and not really a comparison but they just feel better. I'm fairly well versed at threshold breaking and trailbraking, I do not encounter any problems trailbraking since it's not close to threshold the ABS does not engage. Bottom line, I want the ability to use my judgement/feel in lieu of a computer's, call me old school :wink:. The tires/rims are not stock, 215/40/17 and 265/35/18 I'm sure that's not an issue. I have no issue with running a functioning unit on the street. I can run the track when ever I want which is going to be often this year and would like the ability to just flip a switch.The track is www.arroyosecoraceway.com. Mark S
Hmm, interesting. I'm sorry I don't have an answer to your original question. I'm still fixated on why ABS is activating, especially at higher speeds. I'm sure you'll get most of us on this forum who have tracked not have much ABS action, even under heavy braking, but I could be wrong.
What pads and rotors are you using? Can we assume you're on stock calipers? Also, is it a characteristic of the brand / model of tire you're using to be mediocre or poor at longitudinal grip (braking and acceleration)? Is it a fairly hard compound?
Also, since you said you are not engaging ABS trailbraking, you're obviously not violating the available grip of the friction circle, so I'm assuming it's happening at the beginning of the braking zone, in a straight line. Still curious to me that ABS would activate at higher speeds.
I'm sorry, I got nuthin'. :redface:
What pads and rotors are you using? Can we assume you're on stock calipers? Also, is it a characteristic of the brand / model of tire you're using to be mediocre or poor at longitudinal grip (braking and acceleration)? Is it a fairly hard compound?
Also, since you said you are not engaging ABS trailbraking, you're obviously not violating the available grip of the friction circle, so I'm assuming it's happening at the beginning of the braking zone, in a straight line. Still curious to me that ABS would activate at higher speeds.
I'm sorry, I got nuthin'. :redface:
My ABS does the exact thing on the track. While testing hard braking, an observer said my ABS either did not engage or engages so late that the wheels lock up immediately creating the infamous white smoke effect.
I'm having mine deactivated and going with Brembos...
I'm having mine deactivated and going with Brembos...
dquarasr2, the rotors and calipers are stock, Carbotech XP-10 pads front, XP-8 rear. I deferred to CT for recommendations since I'm new to NSX. Stainless lines and Motul RBF 600 brake fluid. The problem is the ABS not the adequacy of the brakes, they are fine no problems in a hard 20-30 minute session because track has only two area's that require heavy braking either running it clockwise or counter clockwise. Symptoms same with either Dunlop Direzza street (200TW rated) tires or Proxes 888's (100TW) It is ONLY a problem under HEAVY braking in a straight line, one would end up in the north 40 if he got into the ABS in a corner :wink:. The ABS hit's at high speed because I'm trying to pull down from 110MPH to 50MPH ASAP. With the front ABS chattering it's disconcerting, I'm downshifting, I immediately have to pick up the throttle to set the rear for a corner, deterimine how much trailing throttle to use etc. To much shit going on for my old mind to process! Getting the ABS out of the equation eliminates one. Mark S
on my first year of tracking I have axxis ultimate front and back, novice mistake braking as hard and as late possible..
later on i upgraded to panther+ and axxis rear, still engaging abs like what you describe... from observer, rear tires locked up for 1/2 second, white smoke came out.
then I have a GT wing, car doesn't do the swinging left and right anymore, less abs engagment.
then i have panther+ front and back. (i upgraded the tires to 235/40/17 and 275/35/18) no more abs problem and no rear locking up.
this year i have new suspension that could absorb bumps a little better, I hardly engage abs at all, (I started to alter my braking point and just trying to toss the car in the corner with very light braking.)
last track day, I upgraded to xp10 for the front, while still having the panther+... I noticed more understeer and occasionally front lock up (abs kicking in)
based on my experience, I'd suggest you looking into your aero, suspension, tires, and the brake bias. I really don't think nsx ABS is that terrible, except the noise at the paddock:biggrin:
hi Mark --
Those are pretty aggressive pads for even the R888. We use P+ on our race car with R888 in place. I suspect using a less aggressive pad will solve the problem and probably give you better braking.
Cheers,
-- Chris
Thanks all, I'm going get some baseline times as is then do the same with fuse pulled and work from there. The NSX platform is new to me I'm just not sure what to expect. The good thing is I have track access and can test at will. Chris, this weekend there was a 98 Integra type R from Phoenix at the track's time attack event. I was impressed, the guy was quick!
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FYI, you can disengage the ABS and TCS by driving for about 1 minute with the parking brake pulled up one click instead of pulling the fuse.
I will try a minute, I did as above but for only 5-10 seconds and no workie.
A minute sounds about right. I did this accidentally while driving the car home from where I purchased it...minor moment of panic. I left the e-brake barely on when I left a rest stop and the ABS & TCS lights came on just as I merged back into traffic. I stopped on the shoulder, disengaged the e-brake, turned the car off and back on and all was well again.
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