Most expensive car wax.

goldNSX said:
The water drops act as LENSES which could burn spots in your paint.
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As I was a little boy I tried to get a thin paper catch fire by the sunlight with a convex lens which they normally use in philately (stamps). A water-drop is konvex unless you wipe it off. Exaggeration: The bundled light can burn a hole in the paint. That's what I was talking about.

Acid rain together with road- or industry-dirt will hurt the paint too.
 
Hugh said:
Water not only diffuses sunlight very effectively, it also reflects it.
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For water-drop which act as a small lens this argument is completely wrong. It only counts if you're diving your car in the sea and wash it 50 ft. below sea-level. :wink:
 
nsxtasy said:
I don't know who told you that but you're totally incorrect. I've done exactly what you describe, putting away the car when there is tap water on it (the tap water here is quite hard) as well as rain water, and in both cases, the spots wash off just fine. The only time I've had paint etched was when the car got caught in a rainstorm and then the sun came out, so the water beads focused the sunlight around their edges.
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No one told me what information I know, I learned it. Ive been detailing for almost 10 years now. High end dealerships, retail shops, managing details for a large handful of dealerships. Everything I stated above is knowledge I've collected over the years. But yeah, you're right... Im wrong. But then again, I guess Wikipedia is wrong as well?

Wikipedia Link

A water spot is an area of dried mineral deposits left on a surface after being allowed to air dry. Water quality, specifically the amount and type of minerals in the local water supply as measured by the total suspended solids or TSS test and other mineral levels such as sodium level, has a big effect on how severe water spots can be, for example on an automobile or dishes. Water spots can be avoided by drying after washing, using a "shammy" cloth or towel for a car and a good drying cycle in a dishwasher, or by manual drying or good drainage after manually washing dishes.
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Or hell, maybe even Answers.com, which uses the same information is wrong as well, correct?

Prius Forum

Water spots are caused by desolved minerals in water. Calcium carbonate (sometimes called lime) is the most common and appears white and chalky when dry. These minerals form ions when desolved in water; when the water evaporates, it leaves the minerals behind. That's why water heaters, coffee pots, and humidifiers get coated with minerals over time. The harder your water, the more desolved minerals.

When you rinse your car and let it air dry, the water evaporates and leaves behind minerals, otherwise know as water spots. They form spots because water tends to pull together as droplets, and as each droplet evaporates, it leaves behind a little white coating of mineral.
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Auto Detail School Link


Scroll down to paragraph about the water purifier...

AutoGeek Exterior Care Link

But hey, you dont have to take my word for it.
 
goldNSX said:
For water-drop which act as a small lens this argument is completely wrong.
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goldNSX said:
As I was a little boy I tried to get a thin paper catch fire by the sunlight with a convex lens which they normally use in philately (stamps). A water-drop is konvex unless you wipe it off. Exaggeration: The bundled light can burn a hole in the paint. That's what I was talking about.
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A drop of water does not act at all like a small lens. I'm sure you've used your Swiss Army Knife's magnifying glass to start little fires during your pyromaniac years. However, a drop of water is not a magnifying glass.

The Dutch astronomer Willebrord van Roijen Snell (1580-1626) discovered the important law of light diffraction between two media having differing refractive indexes or optical densities or light speeds. The Dutch physicist Christiaan Huyghens later formulated other optical laws in his treatise on light. Snell formulated that light is refracted (bent) towards the optical axis perpendicular to the plane between the media when going from a less dense to a denser media so that

{sin (a2)}/{sin (a1)}=n1 / n2
where a1=incident angle, a2=refracted angle, n1=density of air (=1.00), n2=density of water (=1.33)

As angle a1 approaches 90 degrees, angle a2 reaches its maximum beyond which total reflection occurs (going from water to air). This critical angle or Snells 'window' is just over 48 degrees to both sides of the vertical:

{sin (a2)}/{sin(90º)}=1/1.33
sin(a2)=3/4
a2=arc sin(3/4)= 48.6º

Huyghens suggested to look at light beams as travelling fronts of light, like soldiers marching in file can be considered as rows of soldiers. When a light front or row of soldiers meets a denser medium, it is slowed down, causing the front/row to bend and travel/march into a different direction.

phdwg30.gif
 
Hugh said:
A drop of water does not act at all like a small lens. I'm sure you've used your Swiss Army Knife's magnifying glass to start little fires during your pyromaniac years. However, a drop of water is not a magnifying glass.[/IMG]
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No, it wasn't the Swiss Army knife because it was too flat. :wink:

Finally found a image:

Even in the gardening- or let me say the tomato-forum on the internet they warn people about burned tomatoes after a short rain-shower and the sun comming out right afterwards. :)
 
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If I drink a bottle or two of Geritol then urinate on my car and let it dry, I can easily get the spots off with Honda Pro Cleaner and Polish.
 
The curvature of the lens, as well as the angle of the light in which it enters the lens, has to be within a precise tolerance for the whole magnifying/burning effect to take place. For our intensive purposes, the likelihood of the surface of the water to curve and receive light under these conditions is slight to none. In most cases, the explanation that Hugh gives applies. If it were true, I'd expect to see many more cars with tiny little black spots due to the "burning" that supposedly occurs. And no, the "burning" doesn't burn in the shape of water spots; those are just mineral deposits; the act of refocusing light to burn implies the concentration of light into one spot for a duration of time.

Nsxtasy, I think the permanent water spots may be explained by some sort of reaction created by potentially acidic material left after a dried water spot, which in time, if left alone, or worse, left out in the sun, physically corrodes the paint and leaves a spot in the shape of the residual water. I personally have not seen a water spot that has been dried in the sun for a day, that cannot be wiped off by just a wet rag.
 
whatisreal7 said:
The curvature of the lens, as well as the angle of the light in which it enters the lens, has to be within a precise tolerance for the whole magnifying/burning effect to take place.
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Correct. The whole thing is about the shape of the lens or if you wax your car or not. If you don't you'll have FLAT waterdrops and no burning. If you wax your paint you have nearly perfect round ones and buring is a case.

whatisreal7 said:
For our intensive purposes, the likelihood of the surface of the water to curve and receive light under these conditions is slight to none.
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I disagree. Look at the tomatoes.

whatisreal7 said:
In most cases, the explanation that Hugh gives applies. If it were true, I'd expect to see many more cars with tiny little black spots due to the "burning" that supposedly occurs.
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There's no need for BLACK spots. It's enough if you get discoloration or uneven spots.
 
goldNSX said:
There's no need for BLACK spots. It's enough if you get discoloration or uneven spots.
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But wasn't this how the entire discussion started, and someone said the water drops act as a lens and "burns" the paint, like how a magnifying glass burns objects in the sun? Well then, how does a magnifying glass burn an object? in a concentrated light focused on one spot. The magnifying glass doesn't "discolor" or leaves "uneven spots". It burns in one small particular spot. Even just looking at the size of the "average" water drop, and then take into consideration the even smaller pin-point area that the light is concentrated on, burn marks, if any, are very very small. How does this create "uneven spots", which assumes small patches of burnt area? It will take a huge manifying glass to have a burn radius of even a penny.
 
Well, you're correct that by one single wash in full sun not the hole paint gets burned. But by doing it every time in direct sun is no good and after you've done it a 100 times I'm sure you see a difference even if the spots are very small. Remember that I didn't said that the paint will be burned down to aluminium, it's enough to destroy the most upper paint you see (if you're lucky). My example to how the lens works (picture) is an extrem example where all the energy is bundled to one single spot. I'm sure there will be enough energy if the spot is 0.5 mm wide and this can be seen for sure. I didn't talked about spot in the size of a penny. That's an unrealistic configuration. 0.5 mm disturb my eyes for sure.
 
you confuse the rays IR (will infra red) and rays UV (ultra-violet), the drops water absorbs heat IR of the sun but concentrate the rays UV, it's the person in charge of the " brûlures" on the plants and painting, plastic, leather… etc, rays UV destroy the cells of the plants and break the chains DNA (burns on tomatos and cancer at man)
painting is made up of pigments of color, the drops water concentrate rays UV on a small surface and destroy the pigments of color (painting black is most fragile, heat (IR) does not have effects on painting, when you leave your NSX to the sun, the temperature of the body is very high… and painting it's not damaged, one should not leave drops water on the body with the sun because of the concentration of rays UV (the drop is similar has an optical magnifying glass):smile:
 
Hugh said:
.........water is a great insulator and conducts heat very efficiently.

I'm not sure this is possible:confused:

Either it is an insulator or a conduit of heat transfer?

Can it be both:confused: If so I'm calling NASA to let them know:cool:
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I believe the whole water lens effect burning paint thing was started by an infomercial animation many, many years ago advertising a wax that sheeted water instead of beading it. I don't believe in the lens effect personally from both experience and scientific reasoning.
 
This whole water-droplet-as-lens argument is interesting but probably moot. I doubt there has ever been a rigorous scientific examination of the problem. But if I am wrong then post a link.

I've often heard that it is a bad idea to water the lawn in late morning or early afternoon because the water droplets act as lenses and harm the grass blades.

One thing I do know...a lot of past common knowledge has proven to be wrong as have many truths widely accepted by professionals of all types. I also know that water beads left on the car for an extended period of time will etch the paint. I learned that lesson several cars ago. Water spots that I get when I wash the car in the sun (on cool days when I don't have access to shade) and can't get everything dry in time...those water spots will wipe away with a good detail spray.

Of course life was much simpler when I had a silverstone s2000. My bb nsx is proving to be much more challenging to keep looking really sharp.
 
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Brian_Brice said:
http://www.zymol.com/zymolsolaris.aspx
Solaris was 30 grand if memory serves, they have apparently sold them all.

That carnuaba wax must be handed down from aliens near the crab nebula region. It's carnuaba wax, very very hard in its purest forum, needing solvents and oils to soften for application, crazy.
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have that wax, applied it on STI with bare hands, water sheets off very nicely but little pricy, cquartz seem to do the same with more protection
 
If an individual can swing the 1.3M for his Bugatti and pay the maintenence fees (if memory serves me, rim and tire package 100K+ and this is done every 25K miles) then he would be absolutely crazy for not spending 10K on his wax.
 
AWMark said:
then he would be absolutely crazy for not spending 10K on his wax.
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That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. :rolleyes:

There is a law of diminishing returns for any product, and spending tens of thousands of dollars for wax is WAY above and beyond paying for quality. It's called getting ripped off.
 
It's called getting taken advantage of without getting a proper kiss or complimentary reach around in return. Ouch!LOL
 

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