Michelin teams to boycott Indy USGP?

[dave22]

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/17692/

Crazy news. It seems that since qualifying yesterday ALL the teams running Michelins have demanded a chicane at turn 13!


I've got to go to bed now in order to wake up in time for the race, so I'll miss any developments. It'll be interesting to see how many cars are on the grid this afternoon.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Flabbergasted

This tire rule is totally out of control. The idea that a team would take a chance in the pit convincing an official instead of staying out and taking their chances on track is ludicrous. It would seem that Michelin and the teams had plenty of reason to demand the chicane immediately after Kimi's disaster, so what happened yesterday to bring it to a head?

well, duh, why aren't I watching the warm up to find out? Be back in a few.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

why aren't I watching the warm up to find out?

No final decision and not even a discussion. Apparently the situation is too volatile to even allude to. :redface: As bad as the original tire rule is, Michelin is looking even worse at the moment.

initial letters

follow up letter

Pray that the predictions about this race being as historically black as 1994 when Senna and Wedlinger died the same weekend, do not come true.

 

[dave22]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

I'm just getting ready to turn it on.

 

[dave22]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

Wow. Six cars.


This is bizarre.

 

[eg9]

Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

Not only are they whining about rules, being banned from certain races for cheating, and having the WORST season EVER in Honda history of motorsports, they can't even mount up the courage (balls) to race with their Michelins. I think they would have gained a bit more respect if they were to race in the USGP. With their pole positions, they might have done well.

If this season has any bearing on new products from Honda (Supercar), it will be a LONG time till we see anything new...

in my OPINION... it's a total disgrace..

 

[ChrisK]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

Sorry I disagree. BAR was one of the teams that stated they did not have the tire issues that Michelin stated were there according to their data. However, if your tire manufacturer says they can't garantee their equipement to be safe for a race you have to error in the name of safety. It is a very disappointing day for F1, but I am happy all teams stand in unity even if they didn't have a problem according to their own data. I believe BMW also did not have a problem according to their data as well. The back lash will be huge, but I respect teams like BAR and BMW for not putting their drivers at potential risk. If any of your parts suppliers say their equipement is not safe to race you are a fool if you race that car. Blame Michelin if you want to blame someone, or blame the no compromise FIA and Max Mosley. Persoanlly, I don't think the problem was as severe as it is made out to be, but I'm not the Michelin engineer and they know their product best. I've been watching F1 for 12 years and I will continue to watch wherever they may race. It doesn't look good for F1 in the US though.

 

[ChrisK]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

On a lighter and sad note. It looks like Minardi and Jordon will finally pick up some good points. On the other hand, BAR will not be the only team with zero points

 

[BladesNSX]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

I agree with Chris K. BAR-Honda were banned for two races for a minor rules violation. They were NOT cheating, just trying out a new fuel containment format.

As far as BAR-Honda pulling out of the race, that isn't a BAR or a Honda Issue, that responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of Michelin.

I firmly believe Honda would have posed a good challenge to the other teams had there been a race.

How can you say that Honda is a "disgrace" when they have qualified on the top eight positions for this Grand Prix (Pole Position in the Canadian GP)?

Didn't Honda get second in the constructor's championship last season?!

Personally I am proud of BAR Honda.

 

[BladesNSX]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

Since this is more a practice session than an actual race, I've walked away (still have it taped though).

ChrisK is right, BAR may not be getting any points, but neither is Renault, Mclaren, and the Williams team (which is having it's own problems now btw).

If the performances of the qualifying laps of the Canadiam and American Grand Prix show where BAR Honda's performance lies, it is a good sign for the rest of the season. It was unfortunate that both drivers DNFed in the Canadian GP and are not racing in this GP, but I look forward to next race.

I am concerned though about American fans throwing debris out on the track. That is beyond bad taste and class. What's the point in protesting the teams that didn't race by endangering the teams that go out.

LOL, well, I personally run Bridgestone Potenzas on My NSX :tongue:

I am curious what factor this will play in previous talks about going back to slick tires with only one manufacturer. I think that is a bad idea. One of the things I think is of great import to motorsport racing is the trickle down effect of technology from racing to street cars, both in safety and performance. Different companies competing in a race environment is fertile ground for inventive thinking IMO.

 

[Casper91]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

I am concerned though about American fans throwing debris out on the track. That is beyond bad taste and class. What's the point in protesting the teams that didn't race by endangering the teams that go out.

Quite embarassing for the U.S., what a moronic response to throw garbage out on the track!

 

[Casper91]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

they can't even mount up the courage (balls) to race with their Michelins.

I disagree. It would be foolish to race under those conditions. They wouldn't have been competitive. Not to mention the strong possibility of crashing if they did go out.

in my OPINION... it's a total disgrace..

I think it was a total disgrace for Michelin. How long have they raced at Indy? To not be prepared... Don't hear any complaints from Bridgestone....

 

[NSXrunner]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

Oh well, since theres no F1 race to watch, guess Ill go wash my NSX. :biggrin:

As for BAR and the other teams, hey if your tire manufacturer says we cant guarantee the safety, so be it. Nothing is perfect (might have been a bad batch), the FIA should have made an exception and allowed Michellin to fly in new tires like Michellin offered. If the bridgestone guys complain, fine tell em to get new tires out as well. I agree driver safety is a major concern, but close second should be the fans. In this case the fans got hosed because the simplest solution (bring in new tires) was not allowed, and a lame substitute like adding a chicane was laughed at. Personally I blame Bernie Ecclestone, he's done a great job in bringing back the flair for Formula 1 in the past decade or so, but recently seems to have been going senile as the rules become more convoluted in the most recent years. (hence BAR's suspension earlier, which some teams even dispute) IMO Formula 1 is going to have some big big problems in the next few years with rising costs and even more convoluted rules, sad as that sounds since I have been a big F1 for over 20 years, through all the ups and dows, Ill still watch F1 over NASCAR anyday! I just think Ecclestone needs to go to get more openminded people in the business who care about the teams AND the fans, not just the teams and how much money he can make. WTG Bernie!

 

[eg9]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

All great points.

As for the two race rules violation, F1 Magazine had an aritcle form the FIA stating that BAR-Honda did know very well about the fuel containment issue, and still decided to covertly race, and not address this modification. Nevertheless, BAR-Honda has proven itself over and over. It's just difficult to see them with ZERO points in both construction/drivers points.

 

[gobble]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

It was kind of annoying how the announcers seemed to put a major part of the blame on the FIA for not changing the rules. This was Michelin's problem and they should have been bashed for it. Speedtv probably doesn't want to lose those advertising dollars.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

I caught the race about 10 laps in and was wondering what happened to all the other cars.
I heard them interviewing some of the drivers and they didn't say anything about being in an accident so I was confused. After I heard the real reason I didn't have any desire to watch it any longer.
I am a big Schuey fan but it's not a 'real' race if there isn't any competition on the track. Yeah, a win is a win but it's pretty chinzy to me. :redface:

 

[dave22]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

It was kind of annoying how the announcers seemed to put a major part of the blame on the FIA for not changing the rules. This was Michelin's problem and they should have been bashed for it.

EXACTLY. The announcers gave Michelin a little ribbing, but not nearly enough. :smile:

 

[Meeyatch1]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

Quite embarassing for the U.S., what a moronic response to throw garbage out on the track!

True...but those race tickets were not cheap, and lots of the people had come from very far away (even over seas) to watch the 'race' only to have the majority of the field pull off and not even start. Heck, I would be mad as heck too!! Might as well have stayed home and saved the money and aggravation.

 

[Hrant]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

It was kind of annoying how the announcers seemed to put a major part of the blame on the FIA for not changing the rules. This was Michelin's problem and they should have been bashed for it. Speedtv probably doesn't want to lose those advertising dollars.

Yes and No.

Yes it is Michelin's problem and they were squarely beat by Bridgestone. No argument there. So what would you have expected to happen after such a public admission and humiliation? That the teams still allow the drivers to go out when the tire manufacturer on which they are relying to go 300+ kmh is telling them the tire is not safe? This after two incidents - though other teams said this was not a problem yet they never put some mileage on those tires to qualify/validate that assertion? To slow down to 150kmh when another Bridgestone tire F1 comes zooming at 250+ kmh? With such differential in speeds and adrenaline flowing to race a serious accident was bound to happen. Heck, just look how Shuey was about to take his team mate (if there is scuh a thing) coming out of the pit; even in such a riduclous parade laps they were at each other! Did he get the black flag for aggressive driving, where was FIA's rule book then?

And what about all the people who paid to watch the real thing? Where is their right to see the race, the show/entertainment? After all, I would presume entertainment is the businees of the new F1 sport no - with all TV rights and commercializing of products?

I think Coultard said it best. Give the points to the Bridgerstone drivers, and let the rest of them race with the chicane even if it does not qualify as a sacntioned race because the track configuration was changed. So both the drivers enjoy a race and the crowd still gets to see a show. But no some knucklehead in Britain had to find some bureaucratic excuse to justify his salary and authority. To claim that the Micheline teams could use their other compound tires (dictated by their same FIA rule to be limited for rain conditions only) was laugingly absurd.

Yes Michelin did not thave the goods, but in my view, FIA's intrasigence to find a compromise was the real problem. True, if Bridgestone had the same problem I don't believe we would face the same argument. But then numbers do speak when this is an equally entertainment business venture. Sometimes acknwoledging the big picture in the interest of all - especially the paying fans is as important as being "absolutely" right. The sanctioning body/FIA is the big loser for not appreciating the damage that this did to those who attended/watch. Just think how many people turned the channel to watch something esle, the loss for all those advertisers.

YMMV.

 

[svalleynsx]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

I guess we can debate all day here whether or not FIA should've been more flexible and allowed a chicane to be put up leading up to the banked turn, or whether Michelin should've been more prepared after racing there for 6 years to know about this problem.

The fact remains, the buying public was screwed royally on this fiasco. Not just the actual crowd, many who probably travelled a good distance to attend, but the TV public and sponsors alike. That doesn't excuse though, the moronic behavior of people throwing projectiles onto the track. Imagine if one of those actually came down on a driver at those speeds. The Bridgestone runners had absolutely nothing to do with this mess, and IMO absolutely did the right thing by going out and at least putting on a bold face in spite of the circumstances and putting on a decent show for the people who remained.

It will be interesting to see in the coming days whether the fans get their money back, although I doubt it with all the "fine print" that's written onto the back of sporting event tickets these days. You know, "the unforseen circumstances, out of our control" clause. :wink:

 

[ADNOH]

U S G P

Michelin said their tires were unsafe so 14 cars with Michelin boycotted the race. Schummi won the race(if you can call it one). Sadly some fans left before the race even began and the fans that stayed wanted their money back.

http://motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=189212

P.S. Guess who made the cars pull out of the race? The damn FIA.

""Earlier on today," he explained, "nine of the 10 competing teams agreed that, in the interests of safety, a temporary chicane needed to be placed before the final turn and, unless that took place, the nine teams would not compete.

"This idea was rejected by FIA president Max Mosley and, in no uncertain terms, the teams were told that should this occur, there would be no race. This, in my opinion is clearly not in the interests of the sport, the American public or Formula One fans around the world. "

 

[Klayton]

Re: Us Gp

Haha I think it was pretty funny how all those Michelin Teams blamed Ferrari for not agreeing to build another curve :biggrin:.

Lol, next time Mercedes cries their engine is not strong enough for topspeed on the straight so they need to remove it.

 

[Honda F1 Racing]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

Not only are they whining about rules, being banned from certain races for cheating, and having the WORST season EVER in Honda history of motorsports, they can't even mount up the courage (balls) to race with their Michelins. I think they would have gained a bit more respect if they were to race in the USGP. With their pole positions, they might have done well.

If this season has any bearing on new products from Honda (Supercar), it will be a LONG time till we see anything new...

in my OPINION... it's a total disgrace..

BAR-Honda were never found guilty of cheating. Read the official ruling over at the official FIA website. A misinterpretation of the rules, yes, blatant cheating, no. The so-called "hidden" fuel tank, the FIA had always known about. In fact, the design and legality of their fuel tank was never in contention because it was legal. It was using fuel as a ballast which was the point of argument between BAR and the FIA, not whether they ran an underweight car in San Marino.

Also, how have BAR-Honda "whined" about the rules? They challenged the rulebook because the rules are vague in areas where they should be more specific. If the FIA want teams to adhere to a certain standard, they should make more of an effort to update the rules so there are less grey areas.

Not sure what you mean by the "pole positions" at the USGP as there can only be one racer who can claim pole, and even then, JB was starting from the second row in 3rd, not pole, with Taku in 8th. The only poles BAR-Honda have are from last weekend's Canadian GP and last year's San Marino GP, both from JB.

I also would hardly consider this year the worst year ever in Honda's motorsports history and they really haven't had many bad years. If you have followed Honda's third era of F1 when they came back with BAR and briefly, Jordan, those days were clearly the worst, as they were the laughing stock of F1 which was a surprise given Honda's dominance of F1 during the 80's/early 90's in their second era. This year, they've just suffered extremely bad luck but the pace is there on certain circuits. Just my 2 cents.

 

[0ctan3]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

:biggrin:

 

[gobble]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

I think Coultard said it best. Give the points to the Bridgerstone drivers, and let the rest of them race with the chicane even if it does not qualify as a sacntioned race because the track configuration was changed. So both the drivers enjoy a race and the crowd still gets to see a show. But no some knucklehead in Britain had to find some bureaucratic excuse to justify his salary and authority. To claim that the Micheline teams could use their other compound tires (dictated by their same FIA rule to be limited for rain conditions only) was laugingly absurd.

YMMV.

Do you really think they had a chicane laying around that they could set up on a moments notice?