Maybe blew an oil gear tracking saturday at SOW.

Awesome info, Ive got a list of stuff not to read into and check out.
Motor is stock, im just doing reliability mods for the track now i have headers ecu and intake but those are the only power adders. Ive already got the 3qt accusump and pan baffle. Motor only has 60k on it, it should be good for a bit more as is. Im going to take all the good advise and just go with the OEM housing and replace all the 'small things' that are suggested. Thanks guys
 
I'm looking into the oil pressure sender upgrade from SOS and Ive got a question.

I'm also taking this opportunity to finially get some decent gauges, oil pressure, oil temp water temp.


I would need this:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...cts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/feed_pressure_adaptor/
to run the oil pressure gauge, right. and If I do that would I need the oil pressure sender upgrade? I cant tell really and my FSM is at home but if I got both would I be able to use them both? are they are tapping into the same place? Seems weird to me to read oil pressure off of just one head.

And for the oil temp, Since I have the SOS oil cooler and accusump Can I just run the sender off of the sandwich plate that came with the kit, If I remember correctly it came with a tapped port.

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/oil_cooler/
 
No, you'd want this:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/oil_press_sensor/

This new oil pressure sender takes the place of the OEM one that will eventually leak or give inaccurate readings. This sender is located on the drivers side front head underneath the VTEC solenoid. It's kinda hard to get to while in the car. Not impossible, but just easier if you've got it out.

Can't help you with the oil temp - I don't have the sandwich adapter or an Accusump yet. Mine is directly in the pan where it's the hottest reading.


For 60k miles on your engine, I'd just button it up and go have fun. Maybe buy the MLS head gaskets ($215) and ARP studs ($320) - no extra machining or work needs to be done on those... it's just that the OEM head gaskets are cheap paper junk. Also, when putting the heads back together, I would use the SOS LMA kit ($175). It replaces the old LMA design that tends to stick after awhile (and helps contribute to high valvetrain noises) with a newer Honda design that's basically just an exposed beehive spring.

New thermostat and hoses (if they haven't been replaced before, and especially since you'll be tracking in Cali summer heat), maybe a new CPS (check the Denso one out that's linked in my engine build thread), and check your VVIS system.

Also, it's good to buy new coolant temp sensor and knock sensors. These are cheap. Knock sensors get noisier with age and many of them on the older NSX's have cracked. With the intake manifold off, now's the opportunity to replace them. Mine came from page 3 of the engine build here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154927

Maybe do the cv boots too if they've never been done before.

Dave
 
Oh, you want an aftermarket gauge? In that case, you can run an additional sender and gauge setup using the adapter from the earlier SOS link you had. BUT, you'll still have the future possibility of the OEM sender leaking. In that case, you can remove and screw a blank in the sender oil passageway and live with a dead gauge on your dash. OR, you can live with a dead OEM oil pressure gauage in your dash and replace the OEM sender with an aftermarket setup like the AEM. This is what I did:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78153

It's not for everyone with having to put an additional gauge in your car, but I like it. Also, now I can input it to my EMS and datalog. From my engine build thread, you can see the OEM oil pressure sender block, my flexible high pressure stainless line, and the AEM sender at the other end in this picture just below the VTEC spool valve:
stand.jpg





But if you just want a more reliable setup for the OEM gauge in your dash, then the other SOS product does that.
 
illwillem said:
So I can run an after market oil pressure sender off of this kit? http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/oil_press_sensor/

of should I run this kit AND run an after market gauge, if so where do I run the sender from for an aftermarket gauge?

Looking into CPS, VVIS loctite fix, and hoses now
Click to expand...

I have the SOS kit. I'm not a big fan.

#1 it is slower to react because of the remote location vs OEM sitting on the block. When I turn on my Accusump with the engine off, with the OEM I use to see a slight pressure rise so I knew the Accusump valve was working. Now, I don't even though I can go to the trunk and see the Accusump gauge had dumped the oil. As well, when you get on the gas, there is a second or two delay before the needle moves - OEM is much quicker to react.

#2 after about a year it started reading lower than normal even though it is still working. This gave me a indication at idle of just off the 0, I don't like looking down and seeing the needle at the 0 anytime the engine is running - this freaks me out. I replaced the SOS wire with the resister and just used a normal wire so now it's at the 2 mark at idle (but at the 6 mark at higher rpm). But I prefer this than looking down and seeing almost 0 pressure at idle. BTW: When I first got the SOS it read 2 at idle and a normal 4 when at higher rpms.

Now the good - on the track my OEM sender use to show a drop to 0 at the end of any long straightaway (extended vtec) and then would pop right back up when I let off the gas. SOS stays rock solid.

So there are good and bad parts to this SOS sender.
 
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Oh wow, I had no idea. While I agree with some dampening is needed to accurately monitor instrumentation, I think that's waaayy too excessive.

I don't think it is the remote sender location that causes it. Look at my picture, the sender hose I have is about 1.5 ft long so I can stick the new AEM sender on the firewall near my coolant tank (with a rubber isolator so it's not rigidly mounted). It reacts immediately.

Your problem must be with the SOS sender itself.

Dave
 
Very cool Mac, sounds like you've got it all sorted out. Also Capitan I have read a few of your threads regarding your stock oil pressure woes. Looks like for now the best of both worlds would be to run both gauges if possible, stock and after market.

Sorry for being a bit thick, (but my FSM is at home) but ive a bit stumped on a stupid question. Does the stock and Oil pressure, or Sensor upgrade kit, run off the same port as the oil feed adapter that I would use to run the sender for an after market oil pressure gauge -Thus, making it impossible to run both?

based on what you were saying, Mac "In that case, you can run an additional sender and gauge setup using the adapter from the earlier SOS link you had. BUT, you'll still have the future possibility of the OEM sender leaking." they are not reading from the same location. Looking farther im also reading some conflicting and confusing threads that have me chasing my tail.

If they are in fact separate locations and I can run an after market gauge and the revised SOS unit at the same time i will do just that. But this begs the question: what does the oil feel location typically feed? If I block that port with an oil pressure sender do I need to 'T' it for something to maintain stock functionality?


EDIT:
I think answered my own question after looking up the SOS sandwich adaptor plate it apparently has 2 1/8 ports:
"Includes two 1/8" NPT ports for sensors (plugs included) and is designed with 1/2" NPT in and outlet ports compatible with AN-8 and AN-10 fittings. Adaptor also includes o-ring seal and machined center bolt."

is there a down side from running oil pressure/oil temp after market gages from the sandwich plate?
 
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Getting back to this a bit late today. Darn this thing called... work!

I, for one, would not try to tap into the signal from the SOS (or OEM) oil pressure sending unit. Who knows what kind of 0-5v calibration that thing has. That's only useful to get the OEM gauge on the instrument cluster working. That thing doesn't have the resolution to make it useful on the track anyway. I would have no problems running both temp and pressure sensors from the sandwich plate. If you run something like a SPA or Zeitronix pressure sending unit it will work with the 1/8" NPT holes on that plate. Is it the best spot for oil temp and pressure?... probably not.. is it good enough? probably yes. Running a dedicated pressure/temp sensor will also allow you to make use of alarms much better.

The Dali banjo bung thingy (don't know the name) intercepts oil right before it dumps into the pan. I haven't looked at a fiche to know where it is but it seems like a good alternative to tapping the oil pan. Just something to look into as you're weighing your options..
 
illwillem said:
Sorry for being a bit thick, (but my FSM is at home) but ive a bit stumped on a stupid question. Does the stock and Oil pressure, or Sensor upgrade kit, run off the same port as the oil feed adapter that I would use to run the sender for an after market oil pressure gauge -Thus, making it impossible to run both?
Click to expand...

No they don't use the same ports. The oil feed adapter is for an aftermarket sender, or an oil feed source for turbos, etc. From the picture below on the rear head, you can see a red jagged line that is the oil discharge path from the last main journal (per page 5-11 of the SM) that goes up to the spool valve, and the set-screwed fitting SOS replaces with a fancy adapter on the head. The OEM and SOS OEM replacement senders use the port shown in the red circle below (well, actually a distribution block that bolts in here):
IMG_46451.jpg



Also, you can see the little block on the front head depicting the oil pressure sender on page 5-11 of the SM (and also the low-oil pressure switch on the discharge from the oil cooler, and also the two VTEC oil pressure switches on the two spool valve assemblies).

Hope that helps. Back when I did my little oil sender mod, SOS didn't have their OEM sender replacement kit out yet, and they also didn't have that cool little fitting out yet either. I had to improvise. I felt with an aftermarket setup giving me useful readings, there would be no need for the gauge in the dash. I have plans to go into the dash and do some work later....

Dave
 
So after a bit of radio silence on this thread Ive got the car back. It was exactly as I expected it failed:


<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337199795.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337199795.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337199798.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337199798.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337199793.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337199793.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

the gear went and took the housing with it, you can see some hot spots on the gear from I guess where it'd heated before it exploded.

good news is while I was in there id done some other little stuff. all and all back on the road. All the aero came in in the meantime so it'll all be on the car ready to go soon.
 
I had brought it to Westlake Independent. They did the tear down and inspections. I bought the oil pump and billet gear along with a few other things on my own and they happly installed it all back together for me. thank god the crank and cyl walls were okay. I think a few more seconds and I would have had something more terminal to deal with. While they were in there I had them check the VVIS screws do some coolant lines, reseal some of sump connections, oil pan and flush coolant.
 
illwillem said:
So after a bit of radio silence on this thread Ive got the car back. It was exactly as I expected it failed:


<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337199795.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337199795.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337199798.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337199798.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337199793.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337199793.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

the gear went and took the housing with it, you can see some hot spots on the gear from I guess where it'd heated before it exploded.

good news is while I was in there id done some other little stuff. all and all back on the road. All the aero came in in the meantime so it'll all be on the car ready to go soon.
Click to expand...

I have a question but it might be too late....

Can you measure the hieght of the oem oil gear and the aftermarket.. to make sure they are 'exactly' the same?
 
Ah crap, yeah its a bit too late. Everything is back in the car now, i've only got the stock one and the broken one out of the car now.


got the Wing in from Kodington, threw it on the car last night. Looks super aggressive. Going to put the front splitter on that ive just finished making, ill take pics of the set up with everything on but until then..
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337277742.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337277742.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337277743.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337277743.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337277736.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337277736.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=1337277740.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/1337277740.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
 
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illwillem said:
got the Wing in from Kodington, threw it on the car last night. Looks super aggressive.
Click to expand...
Looks are in the eye of the beholder. I think it looks super silly, like something designed to appeal to pre-teens in the local middle school.
emotlol_2.gif
And with it up that high, it's only going to be detrimental to performance. But if you like it, great - it's your car, and you can do whatever you like to it!
 
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Oh, Perfect then. Thats THE only reason I got it; Cruse middle schools to pick to up chix. Thats the only reason we bought red sports cars, amiright?
 
nsxtasy said:
And with it up that high, it's only going to be detrimental to performance. But if you like it, great - it's your car, and you can do whatever you like to it!
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about Ken? The wing was designed and made by Kognition for the Factor X NSX. They know aero. The wing was designed for clean air flow using CFD not by a backyard design studio selling to "posers" who want their civic to look like The Fast & Furious. Kognition has a HUGE following in Time Attack and I'm sure Billy would approve without hesitation.

sent from my crappy cell phone.
 
illwillem said:
So after a bit of radio silence on this thread Ive got the car back. It was exactly as I expected it failed:

the gear went and took the housing with it, you can see some hot spots on the gear from I guess where it'd heated before it exploded.

good news is while I was in there id done some other little stuff. all and all back on the road. All the aero came in in the meantime so it'll all be on the car ready to go soon.
Click to expand...

Yikes, sorry to see that. If it helps - and your oil pump housing is scored from the damage, we recently updated our billet oil pump gear program. In addition to machining the oil gear's pocket deeper - we now machine the gear pocket outer diameter larger as well. This means that almost any damage to the housing will be fixed when we machine it for our high capacity billet machined gear set. We felt this was important as many of the housings we see now have scoring on the radial surface as well as the floor and ceiling of the pocket and the housings alone are around $600. This should save you some money rather than buying a replacement.

cheers,
-- Chris
 
CL65 Captain said:
WTF are you talking about Ken? The wing was designed and made by Kognition for the Factor X NSX. They know aero. The wing was designed for clean air flow using CFD not by a backyard design studio selling to "posers" who want their civic to look like The Fast & Furious. Kognition has a HUGE following in Time Attack and I'm sure Billy would approve without hesitation.

sent from my crappy cell phone.
Click to expand...

cuz you need the horsepower in order to utilize it...

down = drag

unlimited time attack = unlimited horsepower

that wing = a lot of down = a lot of drag

solution = add tons of power
 
Yes, Billy is the one who told me to call Kognition. Obviously I can set the stall angle on the wing for diffrent DF settings, currently with stockish power on the 'slower tracks' i run it drag wont really be big enough a problem for me to out weigh the gains. Tons of power is on the list but im driving the car with stock power for a while until I feel like i've maxed myself in the current set-ups potential out (which will take a very long time)

Also like xtcy said. its my car, and I like it.
 
Last edited:
StmpoRaceProducts said:
cuz you need the horsepower in order to utilize it...

down = drag

unlimited time attack = unlimited horsepower

that wing = a lot of down = a lot of drag

solution = add tons of power
Click to expand...

Ross, you should know a track has one or two straights but 10+ corners. The loss down the straight will be more than made up on the increased corner and exit speeds. As well, the increased confidence in corner entry speeds will immediately improve lap times.

When I added the apr wing I lost 2 mph on the straight but dropped 2 full seconds a lap my first time out.

sent from my crappy cell phone.
 

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