Looks like we have a winner...Blu-Ray

[Synthesis]

right, the same compression is used.... for now.
but the blu ray format itself has significantly more potential.

i guess you could argue a couple other points too, though. i think the whole cost issue was one of the biggest arguments in the beginning. however, everybody knows that, once a technology has had a soak-in period, prices will come down quickly.

i agree - it's nice to see one come out on top so we know what the industry standard is going to be and where we should spend our money.

(same thing happened when divx discs were introduced.... nobody knew what dvd players to buy)

 

[NSXrebel]

I didn't even know about Divx discs until now. Only thing I knew about Divx, was the format used online on Al Gore's interweb.

 

[robr]

I didn't even know about Divx discs until now. Only thing I knew about Divx, was the format used online on Al Gore's interweb.

divx was something being pushed by (IIRC) circuit city? basically dvds where the content expired, you'd 'rent' the discs and then just throw them out after they expired. now when you hear divx, it means something completely unrelated. it refers to a video compression codec.

 

[brickdds]

Seeing as the CD is slowly on the way out with the advent of online music, one wonders at what point the DVD ergo HDDVD/Bluray will follow.
This format war could be decided by way of default to online purchase of video. Before either is declared a winner, they could be both deemed losers. Who knows?

 

[Carguy!]

Seeing as the CD is slowly on the way out with the advent of online music, one wonders at what point the DVD ergo HDDVD/Bluray will follow.
This format war could be decided by way of default to online purchase of video. Before either is declared a winner, they could be both deemed losers. Who knows?

Although this is definitely possible in the future, it won't happen for at least 10 years. The reason that CD's are being downloaded is they are relatively small. DVD's are very slow to download even with a fast T1 connection, HD-DVD's or Blu-Ray disks are way too big for downloading.

The other problem is that most Hi-Def Tv's are not hooked up to computers for displaying the downloaded images.

I am sure the entire backbone of the internet will be improved to a point that one day it is possible and new TV's will have a port that can directly attach to the internet and will be able to view 1080P or higher images on demand. All of this will take time and for now I am happing watching my Blu-Ray movies on my 1080P output devices!

 

[robr]

I agree with everything you wrote, except with the comment about a T1 being fast . There was a day a long time ago when it was fast, but even a T3 isn't all that fast when you throw FIOS into the picture (though the symmetrical speeds are nice vs. some of the slow upload tiers offered by broadband), but none of the above is fast enough to move 50gig of 1080p data in real time, especially with latency.

 

[Motegi]

The final nail in the coffin.

The porn industry is dropping HD-DVD and going all BluRay:

http://www.i4u.com/article14003.html

LOL

 

[hofffam]

I'm not a media/telecom guy, but this whole Blu-Ray breakthrough in the last few days seems like a (smart) strategic approach. So, Microsoft and Paramount are HD. And, suddenly, Warner Bros announces it goes Blu-Ray. Ohh Myy Goddd!!!!! That's just another vendor. But, if you're Blu-Ray, you do everything you can to tout this event as "game changing" and get PR to push "WB is now Blu-Ray, therefore, it's official -- Blu-Ray is the only future way to go" reports.

Makes sense from a marketing perspective. But, I'm not sure if Blu-Ray has done *anything* more than land a big contract with WB.

Edit: I wouldn't rush out to buy that Blu-Ray DVD player now. We'll have a winner (or...gasp...two winners and a shared technology) in a year or so.

The reason this announcement is so big is that WB represents 20% of the movies sold today. This means the strong majority of movie studios are Blu-Ray. I've believed for some time that software (movies) would drive the winner, not the disk or the players. Blu-Ray has one big advantage over HD DVD because its almost 2X capacity advantage.

I NEVER believed the initial cost advantage of HD DVD would hold up. And if you looked at movies for sale (e.g. Amazon) HD DVD movies were not any cheaper than Blu-Ray.

I think this is game set match for Blu-Ray. All of the manufacturers of electronics with their toe in the water or on the sidelines will dive in now. It will be good for consumers.

 

[Miner]

Today Toshiba dropped the prices of their HD DVD players. The A3 is $149 and the A30 something under $300.

It does look as if Blu Ray has the advantage of the movie suppliers. The question now will be can Toshiba sell enough HD DVD players to convince the suppliers to change format. Perhaps a new commercial with Christopher Moltasanti (Michael Imperioli) acting instead of reading how great HD DVD is and how if you buy it, Tony Soprano will personally come to your house and snuff out your player if the format loses the battle.

 

[Motegi]

Not only have the player prices gone down but the fire sale on HD-DVD discs has started too!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&plgroup=1&docId=1000186961&plpage=1

 

[flaminio]

This format war could be decided by way of default to online purchase of video. Before either is declared a winner, they could be both deemed losers. Who knows?

For online video to succeed, you basically need two things: 1) Bandwidth; and 2) A sensible DRM policy. Bandwidth is easy; the other part, not so much.

That said, I have been watching a few movies via Amazon's Unbox and Netflix's Watch Now, and it's not so bad. For my faves I still want a hard copy, but for something ephemeral, I can see doing a download for it.

 

[NSXrebel]

Well which ever one wins, better be soon.

 

[Yawwn]

I wouldn't write off HD DVD just yet.

I have two HD DVD players, the Toshiba and the Xbox 360 add-on. I also own about 90 HD DVD movies. I am more about the movies, and will probably buy a Blu-Ray player soon so I can enjoy all the High Def selections. I just want to say that I am not really in either camp, even though it sounds like my allegiance is with Red. I would say I am Purple.

I think that J6P doesn't follow these news bits, and is oblivious to what is happening. The early adopters are going crazy from both camps on AVS Forum with the prior announcement of Paramount, and now the Warner announcement. The price drop of HD DVD may mean the continuation of this format war because J6P will see these HD players selling at Walmart and other stores for about the same price as an upconverting DVD player. The numbers will show the studios that HD DVD is selling well and they may switch or become neutral.

The worst case scenario is that if HD DVD does fall, then I still can keep and play these movies on my player. It also acts as a great upconverting DVD player.

All I am saying is that it's not over until every studio is on one side or the other.

 

[robr]

I think that J6P doesn't follow these news bits, and is oblivious to what is happening.

In case anyone else is as confused as I was.....

J6P Joe Six-Pack (slang for average person)

 

[Yawwn]

Thanks robr,
I should have clarified that expression.

 

[Juice]

Hate to tell ya Yawwn, but the writing is on the wall. BluRay is destined to prevail and HD-DVD will go the way of SEGA Dreamcast.

Fortunately, none of this will ever matter in the long run. Once products like Vudu get widespread and as broad band continues to increase, HiDef downloads will render any hard media format pointless. The future of media lies in interconnectivity, not material substance.

 

[robr]

There needs to be some sort of physical media format because people carry around media all the time. I want to be able to loan a DVD to my mother in law, check out DVDs from the library or when we go on a long trip, I want to bring along some DVDs for my kids' portable DVD players. I don't want to have to spend time downloading movies to their players' internal storage. I agree that downloadable content is going to be huge, but there still needs to be a physical format (whether it's DVD or something else). With all the DRM, it may get pretty difficult to copy that downloadable content to physical media and play it on a $40 portable device.

 

[H-carWizKid]

Although this is definitely possible in the future, it won't happen for at least 10 years. The other problem is that most Hi-Def Tv's are not hooked up to computers for displaying the downloaded images.

I am sure the entire backbone of the internet will be improved to a point that one day it is possible and new TV's will have a port that can directly attach to the internet and will be able to view 1080P or higher images on demand. All of this will take time and for now I am happing watching my Blu-Ray movies on my 1080P output devices!

One day??? 10 years from now?

Try Yesterday!

A little device I have called Apple TV allows me to download movies from itunes, and then replay them in high def on my big screen. I bought that back in March. Apple TV is connected to my Sony via HDMI cable.

Apple TV streams the video wirelessly from my desktop, or from my girlfriends powerbook. All that is needed is a wireless internet connection, and Itunes and I can stream from any source.

No wireless? No problem, I can also connect computers to Apple TV using a standard network cable.

As an added bonus, I can take my movies with me on my Video iPod.

Storage is the only problem, but with the falling cost of additional hard drive space, it isn't really a problem.

Philip

 

[robr]

One day??? 10 years from now?

Try Yesterday!

A little device I have called Apple TV allows me to download movies from itunes, and then replay them in high def on my big screen. I bought that back in March. Apple TV is connected to my Sony via HDMI cable.

Apple TV streams the video wirelessly from my desktop, or from my girlfriends powerbook. All that is needed is a wireless internet connection, and Itunes and I can stream from any source.

No wireless? No problem, I can also connect computers to Apple TV using a standard network cable.

As an added bonus, I can take my movies with me on my Video iPod.

Storage is the only problem, but with the falling cost of additional hard drive space, it isn't really a problem.

Philip

I think what Carguy! is saying is that you need enough bandwidth to move 1080p data so you can watch it NOW, not download and then watch. When people want to watch a movie, they don't want to wait for it to download, and there is A LOT of data to be moved in a 1080p video even with H.264.

 

[H-carWizKid]

I think what Carguy! is saying is that you need enough bandwidth to move 1080p data so you can watch it NOW, not download and then watch. When people want to watch a movie, they don't want to wait for it to download, and there is A LOT of data to be moved in a 1080p video even with H.264.

I see your point.

Don't let that dissuade you from the product though.

It takes about 15 min to download a movie from iTunes via cable connection, about the same amount of time required to get your popcorn ready. Prices are comparable to standard DVDs bought at BestBuy. Blu-Ray, and HD DVDs are considerably more $$$. The movies stream to my TV in 1080i (not P, but I wear glasses, so I doubt I can even see in 1080p).

On the downside- movie availability is still not quite where I want it- new releases aren't always available, the upside is that many prime time TV shows are available.

I also like streaming music from iTunes through my home theater, and it also streams our pictures as a screen saver. This has worked out really well when we have people over for Dinner.

 

[robr]

I see your point.

Don't let that dissuade you from the product though.

It takes about 15 min to download a movie from iTunes via cable connection, about the same amount of time required to get your popcorn ready. Prices are comparable to standard DVDs bought at BestBuy. Blu-Ray, and HD DVDs are considerably more $$$. The movies stream to my TV in 1080i (not P, but I wear glasses, so I doubt I can even see in 1080p).

On the downside- movie availability is still not quite where I want it- new releases aren't always available, the upside is that many prime time TV shows are available.

I also like streaming music from iTunes through my home theater, and it also streams our pictures as a screen saver. This has worked out really well when we have people over for Dinner.

We'll get there, and it may not even take 10 years. One of two things need to happen for this to be viable for HD content... bandwidth goes up or compression algorithms get better. For SD content I think we're close to being there already. The first time I saw streaming realtime TV with a set top box I was blown away. It was probably 3 years ago and of course it was.... porn. I was at a friend's house for superbowl and one of the guys brought his xtv box with him. Plug it into an ethernet jack and off you go, porn TV. When I saw that, the possibilities just amazed me. Had I not known what we were watching, I would have thought it was broadcast TV, the quality was that good and this was 2 or 3 years ago and it was real time. Porn is always the first to take advantage of new technologies .

http://www.xtv.com/

 

[Juice]

I don't want to have to spend time downloading movies to their players' internal storage.

It's instant thanks to P2P. Seems you are misinformed on such matters.

I'm not saying hard media will completely disappear. But in 20 years when I can beam a movie from my phone to yours, or simply download it to my server base using my phone as a pc dial up so I can watch it remotely using sling media, you'll be eating your words.

 

[robr]

It's instant thanks to P2P. Seems you are misinformed on such matters.

I'm not saying hard media will completely disappear. But in 20 years when I can beam a movie from my phone to yours, or simply download it to my server base using my phone as a pc dial up so I can watch it remotely using sling media, you'll be eating your words.

P2P isn't some magical solution, it still takes time to deliver content and it can only deliver as much content as your internet connection can allow. Unless you have some SERIOUS bandwidth, it's not going to be enough for realtime 1080p H.264. In fact a friend of mine (and former NSX owner) was CEO of one of these P2P video software delivery companies that was bought out by Akamai and even he is convinced P2P isn't particularly good for content delivery. While this may not carry a lot of weight with you especially since you don't know my friend, it does with me.

 

[Arshad]

To add to this discussion:

One of the things that Apple announced today in addition to the new thin notebook is AppleTV 2 and video rentals. If you have a high speed connection, you will typically wait 30 seconds for the initial buffering and then can start watching an HD rental as it streams without having to wait for it to fully download. I believe the "HD" in this case is 720p, and not 1080i, but it's not such a big stretch to take that to 1080i. I think most ISP's have "high speed extreme" options capping out around 9-10Mbps, which implies that the Apple video must have an average bitrate well below that. However, in some countries they're talking about 100Mbps to the home, and when the infrastructure is up to that level, it won't be such a stretch to be streaming 15-20Mbps high quality 1080i H.264 video.

 

[Zishan]

feeling better than ever about my PS3 purchase now...

Ditto!