Keith Martin of "Sports Car Market" thoughts on NSX 2-19-08

[alum04org]

The only car enthusiast magazine I subscribe to is AutoWeek. As such, I have always enjoyed the "Market" feature wherein Keith Martin analyzes a recent auction purchase/non-sale of a sports car. Maybe you have seen him and heard his comments on B-J Auction events and SPEED TV.
In the 1-28-08 edition of AutoWeek, Mr. Martin advised that it was his last "Market" column and expressed thanks. He provided an e-mail address by which to contact him if we subscribers had collector car questions. Well, I had a question(s) about the sports car we all love, and today I e-mailed him this:

"Long time reader of your “Market” / Autoweek contributions and will miss your insight there!
I have now owned a 2004 NSX-T 6 speed for almost three years (imola orange with orange int.).
I am interested in your “take” on this model.
Will it be a true “collectible”?
At what point, or timeline, would you think it may/could appreciate in value and/or demand?
I love the car (enough to buy a second!), and have no plans of selling it for a very long time.

Appreciate your time and input."

And signed it with my name, location, and telephone number.
Within an hour I received his reply. With his permission I share it with you all:

"thanks for your comments.
I think the NSX is a blue-blooded performance car, but not a very highly collectible one.
It has no real racing history, it doesn't have a super-exotic powerplant, and its styling is not striking to most.
I think they are pretty fully depreciated at this time, so if you keep it in good condition and don't put 50,000 more miles on it, the price will be about the same in a decade as it is today.
Which is a pretty good deal.
KM"

He offered to comp me a temp. subscription to his periodical, Sports Car Market (www.sportscarmarket.com), and of course I took him up on that! While we all want to have an NSX that remains in demand and appreciates in value, Mr. Martin's analysis of the NSX's hopeful steady market value is quite refreshing, no?
And, "I think the NSX is a blue-blooded performance car". Yep, have to agree there. :wink:

 

[Jetpilot3]

Thanks for sharing the post from Autoweek...

 

[Ski_Banker]

I'd agree with his assessment, except that, in 10-15 years this car will be collectible and much higher priced than now. That's when the teenagers that fell in love with it in 1991 have some real dough, and most will be wrecked/salvaged by then since NSXs are actually driven.

 

[DocL]

I meet him once and he's a genuine person. At least he didn't say don't put 10,000 more miles on the car. If it was a Ferrari it would hit rock bottom at that mileage.

 

[troca]

I have read a lot of Kieth Martin stuff and I'm sure his experience and years as an observer in the hobby (I'm not so sure that once you get into the "investment" frame of mind that cars are still a hobby) give him a great deal of credibility. However, I have always wondered why so many of these guys seem to miss a very important influencing factor in the estimation of future value of anything and that is that interest is very much generational. People seem willing to spend incredible sums of money on things "collectable" without ever asking themselves "who am I going to sell this to when I want to get rid of it and get my money out?" If you buy for the love of it, that's altogether different and you don't need to justify anything except whether you get pleasure equal to your cost and only you need to answer that. I'm in my 50's and have had and have been involved with many marvelous machines; GT40, Cobra, Hemi Roadrunner, 340 Dart, Boss Mustang, Pantera, Alfas, Cosworth Escort, military vehicles, aircraft, and many, many others. I wish I could have afforded to keep them all. I have two sons in their 20's that have been around long enough to remember a lot of the toys, but for the most part, they were MY toys and don't have much emotional tie to them. Their interest is in the rally era cars and the Japanese imports that they cut their teeth on. The biggest single mistake of most of the old car clubs that I have been involved with is that they concentrate on the "old" part of their name. Old cars, old owners, old memories. They are not doing much to educate or bring the new generations into their hobby and will find themselves, as have the Model t and A club, and even the led sleds and hot rods, that their time has passed and interest has waned because no one is alive anymore that has emotional ties to this stuff. There will always be a few guys with money looking for special pieces for their collections, but most of the kids in their 20's and 30's today will have enough problems coming up with 200 grand for a house, even after price corrections in the housing market, much less 100 thousand dollars for a vintage muscle car that they have no real ties to. Yet people still believe in the strength of the market for cars of those years, domestic or imported, though some will admit to seeing a softening in process. I recently read one column in an automotive magazine that made sense. The guy talked about how some really savvy collector friends of his were starting to buy old Japanese imports. Cars like 60's Cressidas, 70's 240Z's, 510's and a host of other built in Japan cars are available dirt cheap and the kids love em. I think I agree with the article that, like it or not, these cars are the ones that will have future buyers and will have the greatest appreciation over the next 15 years. I really don't care about your '59 Ferrari special or '63 Healy or 60's muscle car, they are overpriced and while, again, there will always deservedly special cars and people who can afford them, so much of the cars and group Martin seems to be considering in his predictions are not the interests or generation of enthusiasts represented by my kids and their friends. This is where cars like our NSX's (I have to keep wiping the drool from the kids, I should say young adults, that come over to our place off my toys), a nice R1 RX7, Supras, RS2.5 2 door Subies will win hands down. They are affordable, they have extreme performance, and they are well built. They ARE the future.

 

[Ponyboy]

Totally agree w/ troca. I've been an avid reader of Sports Car Market for several years and it's probably one of the only pubs I read cover-to-cover. Excellent magazine. Keith Martin is about as brutally honest as the day is long (readup on how he got kicked out of Barrett Jackson's auction) and his expertise is legendary...however, he is missing/or marginalizing the fact that performance cars are indeed "generational."

 

[nsx1]

...And, "I think the NSX is a blue-blooded performance car". Yep, have to agree there. :wink:

Umm... "blue-blooded"? Shouldn't that be "Red-blooded"? Blue blood is lacking in Oxygen. Is he saying that the NSX lacks the umph necessary of a performance car?


.

 

[WingZ]

Hmm what is a "super exotic engine"?

 

[Ponyboy]

Umm... "blue-blooded"? Shouldn't that be "Red-blooded"? Blue blood is lacking in Oxygen. Is he saying that the NSX lacks the umph necessary of a performance car?

You may be looking a bit too much into the literal definition. W/i the context, I believe Keith Martin meant "blue-blooded" as relating to noble descent, high standing, or aristrocratic status.

 

[Sean Firth]

Hmm what is a "super exotic engine"?

One that has to eat Fois Gras at the garage, with a maintainance schedule akin to a modern fighter jet, I would imagine. I think the rule is "one hour in the air = 25 hours maintainance?"

These reasons are the exact reasons I came to the NSX world. The car is still stunning a full 20 years after the concept (say that about a Diablo). The handling is so magnificent, that Gordon Murray based many characteristics of the McLaren F-1 from a "lowly" Japanese performance car. Couple this with the fact that values remain strong, and will seemingly continue to do so for many years.

While I woudn't plan on selling one once I acquired it, and god knows buying a car for resale value is beyond silly, it is solace to know that if there are unforseen circumstances in the future I would not likely lose my shirt.

As well, having a Honda heart means that trips to the doctor will be relatively painless. The only thing I have heard mention of are its insatiable appetite for tires - which is a fine trade off as far as I am concerned.

 

[redshift]

I was under the impression that the NSX has quite a long racing history in Japan... am I mistaken?

 

[DrVolkl]

I was under the impression that the NSX has quite a long racing history in Japan... am I mistaken?

http://supergt.net/en/

 

[jond]

I can't imagine the NSX not going up in value.
It's still the only reliable, daily drivable, supercar EVER made.

Some might argue the R8, but I doubt the R8 is THAT reliable, and they're really not making many.

In 10 years, if you want a NICE NSX, you're going to have to pay for it I do believe. AND if the new gas mileage regulations have the impact they might have, our cars may REALLY go up in value. Ford is talking about V8's being dinosaurs, and Chevy is talking about cutting way back on HP numbers, etc.

 

[KSXNSX]

Umm... "blue-blooded"? Shouldn't that be "Red-blooded"? Blue blood is lacking in Oxygen. Is he saying that the NSX lacks the umph necessary of a performance car?


.

Are you joking or being serious?

If you are a serious, being "blue-blooded" means you have a pedigree of some sort. It can be used to refer to royalty.

 

[chumch]

..."and its styling is not striking to most"

This statement is somewhat baffling

 

[Patricio]

Thats a bull shit biased opinion.

common man their are ford's, dodges, cryslers, thunderbirds, cadillacs... out their getting 100's of thousands!

No racing history?
- they dominate superbacs. is he kidding?
- what racing history do most collector cars have?

Non exotic engine?
- first engine with stock titanium connecting rods.
- Forget it i'm not going to even make a list this long.... could go on and on.

Looks?
It is still a dream car for kids today, even 16 years later.
not collectible? Than what Japanese car is?

sounds like a pompous prick to me.

The NSX was/is a engineering benchmark for 17 years ongoing now...

Still no sports car has beat the test of time like the NSX.

Old money has to be in the hands of people born in the 80's for the NSX to show its true value. its the Austin Healey of the 90's.. When the Grantourismo generation turns 50 we will see how much they will pay to have the real car of their dreams when they were 15.

 

[damthatbeaver]

I agree...the NSX will go up in value or stay the same...but it will not drop in value - for it has a racing history and is a dream to drive and own! I personally could give a flying f**k what this guy says - but it is such an insult to the people who designed and hand assembled "MY CAR"!! Their love, passion and commitment resides in my car - and it should be acknowledged and respected! The NSX is HOW a car should be made - and in being made as such - she should be recognized for what she is...A COMMITTMENT TO EXCELLENCE...I understand that there are other great cars out there - hell, I would love to have a 1962 Corvette (the year I was born...lol) but crap, for $30,000 I am getting a car that needs to be restored and cannot preform like the car that I am driving. The classic car market does have many difficulties and the number of older Corvettes on the market is one of them...even the number of Mustangs is a problem!! I bought and sold rare golden-age comic books for thousands of dollars - and rarity came down to numbers that verged on 80-100 copies of a specific book (like action Comics #1). These rare cars are in the hundreds...and I mean hundreds!! Everybody with money is jumping on the market...but as the American economy cools...the collector car market will rearrange its prices and the new era of vehicles will break through and come to light...and the NSX will stand out as a true classic!!

Dam

 

[Jamolah]

No racing history?
- they dominate superbacs. is he kidding?
- what racing history do most collector cars have?

Yah, I don't know why he said it doesn't have any racing history. Maybe he meant in North America?!

Non exotic engine?
- first engine with stock titanium connecting rods.
- Forget it i'm not going to even make a list this long.... could go on and on.

Maybe he was alluding to the fact it doesn’t have a V8, V10 or V12 or any forced induction. When you hear 3.0/3.2L V6 it may not evoke the same emotion as a 4.3L V8 ,a 5.4L V10 or a 3.6L Twin Turbo. I think that’s what he means?!

Looks?
It is still a dream car for kids today, even 16 years later.
not collectible? Than what Japanese car is?

I personally still like the looks of the NSX, to this day it still looks exotic. Saw one on the weekend, and I said to myself, "Damn that's still a sexy car".
Although a lot of people I talk to find the looks dated. Especially the pop-up headlights, rear spoiler-headlight integration and small rims (on the NA1 cars).

The NSX was/is a engineering benchmark for 17 years ongoing now...

Still no sports car has beat the test of time like the NSX.

Old money has to be in the hands of people born in the 80's for the NSX to show its true value. its the Austin Healey of the 90's.. When the Grantourismo generation turns 50 we will see how much they will pay to have the real car of their dreams when they were 15.

Part of the reason I didn’t end up getting an NSX is because power-to-money and year-to-money ratio. When you consider how much you are paying for a 1991 for the HP, it was difficult to justify, for me anyway. That’s why I ended up purchasing a 2003 Corvette Z06. No flaming please, keep in mind the NSXs has been one of my favourite cars since 1999 when I saw a black-on-black one, on a display ramp in a white showroom, at an Acura dealership. I fell in love instantly, what a stunning machine!

I think the die-hard fans will keep the NSX value high (Actually I might be one of those fans), especially with fewer and fewer around. Maybe I can pick up a NA2 for a reasonable price in about 5 years. Although I do have my heart set on an Lotus ExigeS.
But, I don’t think the NSX will ever reach the $100,000 classic-car range.

And I just noticed this post is really old. Sorry about that.

 

[bfrank1972]

It's still the only reliable, daily drivable, supercar EVER made.

Umm Porsche 911 Turbo? :biggrin:

 

[Doraemon]

Umm Porsche 911 Turbo? :biggrin:

Try to drive the 911 everyday. You will find that you need to really take care the car and get it tuned up often, especially the turbo's. If you are talking about the newer 997's, they no longer drive like a "true" sports car. It is very nice, don't get me wrong. However, the steering/clutch/gas/brake feeling is akin to that of a ML350. IMHO, I believe (I could be wrong) that Porsche is trying to make 911 drive a lot easier to attract average/women drivers. Of course, with the GT2/GT3, it is totally a different story.:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[ralph cerbone]

Personal Achievement Starts With A Change In Attitude , The NSX is still an engineering marvel , they just cannot admit it , but thats o.k.,as long as theres one in my garage!!!

 

[bfrank1972]

If you are talking about the newer 997's, they no longer drive like a "true" sports car. It is very nice, don't get me wrong. However, the steering/clutch/gas/brake feeling is akin to that of a ML350. IMHO, I believe (I could be wrong) that Porsche is trying to make 911 drive a lot easier to attract average/women drivers.

Uhh you're kidding right? ML350? Have you driven the 997? Yeah it's comfy and easy to drive, but it is a pretty amazing machine. BTW just got back from a day of driving a 997 GT3 RS, and I still have a :biggrin: spread over my face hehe. I could easily drive that daily with no worries about reliability (though I'd definitely worry about people swerving into me from staring!).

Not trying to be a thorn in your side, and I know I am on NSX turf :smile: but saying the NSX *only* 'reliable' 'exotic' is kind of a broad statement. What's an exotic? What is reliable?

 

[tosugrad]

..."and its styling is not striking to most"

This statement is somewhat baffling

+1. I really dont care (too much) about the value but I have to say one of the main reasons I bought it was for the "striking styling". Put the NSX in a parking lot next to just about anything and people will flock to it.

 

[Doraemon]

Uhh you're kidding right? ML350? Have you driven the 997? Yeah it's comfy and easy to drive, but it is a pretty amazing machine. BTW just got back from a day of driving a 997 GT3 RS, and I still have a :biggrin: spread over my face hehe. I could easily drive that daily with no worries about reliability (though I'd definitely worry about people swerving into me from staring!).

Yes, I have driven the 997 many times, and I have driven both the 2007 C4S and the 2008 CS. As I had stated before, they are still nice and powerful car, however, it just doesn't feel like one. The ML350 denotation was referring to the way the steering feels, the suspension, cabin engine sound and the stick/pedal feelings. I can no longer feel in control of the car and I can't feel precisely road conditions. I had excluded the GT2 and the GT3 in this discussion as I had previously posted. If you had driven a CS or C4S, I am sure you should agree with me that when making a turn, you can turning with your little pinky and you might oversteer already. That is what I mean about what's "Lost" in the new 911. Again, IMHO, 911 is a great car. It just drive too much like a sedan nowadays..:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[sahtt]

I'd agree with his assessment, except that, in 10-15 years this car will be collectible and much higher priced than now. That's when the teenagers that fell in love with it in 1991 have some real dough, and most will be wrecked/salvaged by then since NSXs are actually driven.

I agree with that more realistic market analysis. It doesn't take much effort to see this trend. Take, for example, the EG honda civic hatch. Why on earth would that car still be worth more than 1k$ today? Clean examples fetch 5 times that, more than the car cost new in some cases. Nothing exotic about that. Integra Type R's still cost 14-16k for clean examples. It's been that way for what, 4-6 years now? Even the 5th Gen prelude became a severe outlier amongst normal market trends. The common theme is just as Ski mentioned.