Intake -- Suggestions

J

jmp

Experienced Member
Joined
16 July 2005
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421
I have an Ark exhaust, DC Sports header with test pipes, and have just ordered a low-boost CTSC (without any additional engine management/AEM). I am deciding which direction to go on the intake. I am familiar with Cantrell's product, and of course the Comptech "ram air" type box, and the Gruppe M "vortex" thing.

Can anyone give me a quick a dirty outline of the range of choices that are out there and the quick pros and cons of each for a 1991 setup like mine?

Thanks to all.
 
I think the stock airbox with a unifilter works well for most, the cantrell and or downforce products add to the induction sounds but gains, imho are negliable, possibly at speed it better. finally the ct airbox I think is strictly for looks. The groupe M is nice but I am not sure its worth the money.
 
I appreciate the responses. The Dali link was surprising and interesting. It ihndicates that "maybe Honda really knows something about air passing through their motor... (paraphrasing)".

This makes me wonder what effect adding a CTSC and lots more air will have on the various alternatives compared to OEM.
 
NSXGMS said:
There's lots of evidence to suggest that the stock airbox is the most effective intake available, including this experiment:

http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/info/intake_dyno/intakedyno.cfm

Also, the Cantrell AIS (or similar scoops) show mixed evidence of increased horsepower. It does sound cool though. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

NSXGMS, you hit the nail on the head.the OEM air box with OE filter is the best performance intake to be had for the X IMHO! I did my share of testing various intakes and my personal conclusion was stock is best overall.
I did have a motive for using an after market setup for N20 applications.because the A/M intakes used a hard tube like carbon fiber or mild S/S it gave me a good placement mount port for the fogger and freed up space on the frame support for n20 solenoid mounting. I have since come up with a custom S/S support bar to mount all my n20 stuff up to a monster 8 solenoids so with that handled back to stock as fast as I could remount the box. Honda did a hell of a good design! you have to give them A'S because it sure is nice to have OEM that out performs the race engineers at thier on game!
Best Regards David
P.S. Dali sells a carbon fiber tube with flex joints on both ends,it is for dressing out the looks with the OE box but that solid little tube sure makes my life better,if you are installing a n20 setup that is a standard wet or dry fogger that little tube is a life safer.puts the n20 fog right where it needs to be for mix ratio with the 'OEM AIR':biggrin: hehe
 
Hmm..That dali link only seems to include filter changes and using a short ram, which of course it only going to yield sound on most applications. I didn't see mention of changing anything but the filter, except for that short ram "monster" shown. Nonetheless, I haven't read about huge gains with any intake system for the NSX yet.
 
I've tested intakes on the CTSC and there were no gains to be found by any aftermarket intake.
I've made 5whp peak hp with a properly designed intake vs. stock.
However, peak hp isn't worth too much.
 
unlemming said:
Hmm..That dali link only seems to include filter changes and using a short ram, which of course it only going to yield sound on most applications. I didn't see mention of changing anything but the filter, except for that short ram "monster" shown. Nonetheless, I haven't read about huge gains with any intake system for the NSX yet.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by not "changing anything but the filter." There are only 2 types of intake systems: Box w/ filter and filter-head intake.

The "OEM" designation on the experiment means "stock airbox & stock filter."

"No filter" means "no airbox & no filter"

The other types including the "Monsterflow" and "RM" filters are simply filter-head intakes with various pore size combinations.

Aftermarket filters for the stock airbox were not tested because Mark wasn't trying to improve a filter--he was trying to create an intake system--either box or filter head.

BTW, other "air boxes" have been produced and none of them has proven more effective than the shape of the OEM box.
 
We seem to be lost in semantics and interpretations of terminology. It appears from your response that you concur with my statements and reaffirm the opinion that other systems (Cantrell, Comptech, etc...) don't yield huge gains.

I'm not questioning anyones motives or testing techniques, simply wanted to make people aware that it wasn't a comprehensive test of available induction systems.
 
little unrelated to the topic - but would an afer market exhaust (ARK for example) and a SOS headers make a big difference in a 91 stock NSX - (since I guess aftermarket air intakes are useless)

Thanks
 
20 hp is probably on the low side of the range. taitec headers for example, alone will add over 20 hp, according to, I think, SOS's testing. DC Sports claims 18 hp for its header alone. The answer is that it depends on what you buy and whether your further add cat bypasses. The number is probably between 20 and 28 depending.

I recently installed a header (DC Sports), exhaust (ARK) and cat bypasses to my stock (other then wheels/tires) 1991. I have not done a before and after dyno but I can tell you two things: The car is noticeably faster, and it sounds and "feels" like a different car. This is how this car was meant to sound. There is a sharp raspy pitchy sound to it at higher RPM and a nice throaty lower end with little or no drone.

Power changes the driving experience for the better but perhaps as much or more sound does as well. Go buy a header and exhaust. You will not regret it.
 
jmp said:
20 hp is probably on the low side of the range. taitec headers for example, alone will add over 20 hp, according to, I think, SOS's testing. DC Sports claims 18 hp for its header alone. The answer is that it depends on what you buy and whether your further add cat bypasses. The number is probably between 20 and 28 depending.

I recently installed a header (DC Sports), exhaust (ARK) and cat bypasses to my stock (other then wheels/tires) 1991. I have not done a before and after dyno but I can tell you two things: The car is noticeably faster, and it sounds and "feels" like a different car. This is how this car was meant to sound. There is a sharp raspy pitchy sound to it at higher RPM and a nice throaty lower end with little or no drone.

Power changes the driving experience for the better but perhaps as much or more sound does as well. Go buy a header and exhaust. You will not regret it.
Click to expand...

I agree that the power is definitely noticeable. 20-28 HP is basically 10% more HP which is quite a lot. It's a great mod combo and gives tangible results as long as you can part with the $$. And in conjunction w/ the right exhaust the combo can make the NSX really come alive.

You'll also need that combo before any FI plans.

BTW, the only headers that I know of which are California CARB legal are the DC Sports. If you're in CA you will have to R & R the headers every 2 years for smogging ($400-600.)

Dali is working on DC compatibility for the 95-96 headers to 91-94. The 95-96 are a better design I'm told.
 
To the original poster, from what I have seen here (read: no personal experience so do your own due diligence) I would leave the stock airbox. With a CTSC the paper filter *may* be a slight bottleneck and if so and oiled foam filter gives better flow, similar filtration with increased maintenance to clean & oil. If it were me, I would leave the paper filter (more risk, minmal reward. I'd put the money either in the bank or towards an AEM if you have a GOOD tuner and the budget for it.

There are plenty of folks who have been down this road, hopefully they will chime in here and we can both learn something.
 
MJK said:
To the original poster, from what I have seen here (read: no personal experience so do your own due diligence) I would leave the stock airbox. With a CTSC the paper filter *may* be a slight bottleneck and if so and oiled foam filter gives better flow, similar filtration with increased maintenance to clean & oil. If it were me, I would leave the paper filter (more risk, minmal reward. I'd put the money either in the bank or towards an AEM if you have a GOOD tuner and the budget for it.

There are plenty of folks who have been down this road, hopefully they will chime in here and we can both learn something.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. You might need an upgraded filter but the stock airbox is always the best bet. You can add the Cantrell scoop if you like, but it might not do much other than make a whoosh noise.

I would certainly spend any and all available funds on a good AEM. It's really worth every penny.

G
 
NSXGMS said:
BTW, the only headers that I know of which are California CARB legal are the DC Sports. If you're in CA you will have to R & R the headers every 2 years for smogging ($400-600.)

Dali is working on DC compatibility for the 95-96 headers to 91-94. The 95-96 are a better design I'm told.
Click to expand...

Comptech's are legal too. Check http://www.comptechusa.com/store/header10.html

"All Comptech headers are 50 state emissions legal. Click on the Dyno Charts heading to see power results."

I have a set being installed right now :)

-Josh
 
Thanks for the comments on intake. There seems to be a consensus on using a stock intake. I will also avoid the Cantrell as my car is a daily driver and living in FL with the daily rain in the summer, I hear the Cantrell can suck in a good amount of water and for the minor performance benefit, it does not seem worth it.

On the AEM, my thought was to get the low-boost CTSC in the car drive it for awhile (have the added effect of spreading the big expenses), and then go with the AEM.

The AEM adds 20-30 hp and I also understand that since it permits you to cutom tune the electronics, you can create a safety margin in terms of A/F, etc. Am I correct here? Are there any other benefits to the AEM?
 
Joshs said:
Comptech's are legal too. Check http://www.comptechusa.com/store/header10.html

"All Comptech headers are 50 state emissions legal. Click on the Dyno Charts heading to see power results."

I have a set being installed right now :)

-Josh
Click to expand...

Emissions legal and California CARB legal are completely different things.

The manufacturers often omit that part. :rolleyes:

Comptech may indeed be CA CARB legal but be careful not to confuse the two terms. If you live or are thinking at all about registering the vehicle in CA, ask the manufacturer if the headers are CA CARB legal (does it have the sticker.) For example, SOS headers are NOT CA CARB legal as of 4/29/06.
 
........this dosnt really have anything to do with what your asking but its slightly realated ..lol....
Does or has anybody tried the SOS Individual throttle body setup?????? what are the hp tq gains??
 
jmp said:
Thanks for the comments on intake. There seems to be a consensus on using a stock intake. I will also avoid the Cantrell as my car is a daily driver and living in FL with the daily rain in the summer, I hear the Cantrell can suck in a good amount of water and for the minor performance benefit, it does not seem worth it....
Click to expand...


Does the Cantrell really take in that much water?? :confused:
 
It has not been proven it takes in any water to my knowledge. I think it is a bad and untrue rumor. I know I have the Downforce one, and the sound alone is woth 3 times what I paid for it.
(PS, I would drive it in the rain if need be too!)
 
Related to this, when I was at my mechanics a month ago or so he had an engine apart and asked what kind of filter I had. I said stock, he said OK good. Then showed me the motor with the heads off, he said because the guy used a K & N filter, it may of allowed larger size particles into the engine as he had scoring down the cylinder walls. This was noted by his engine builder. My mechanic for record is well versed in NSX's, this was from Oster at First Class Automotive. Just something to think about.

I will stick with the stock filter as its not worth the debatable 1-2 hp gain. Just my $.02
 
pierceman said:
stock with uni filter and a scoop. dyno seems to show this.
Click to expand...

I agree...btw, where can i find a UNI replacement for a good price in Cali?
 

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