Impressions of a Turbo Porsche

[soloracer951]

I always think that the 911 Turbos are the bargains for the automotive world with their performace capabilities. They are almost peerless in their price segment for the past 35 years.
The 996 Turbo is a kick ass car but I don't like it's look. When it first came out in 2001/2002, a local NSXer Steve Brown traded in his very, very nicely modified 2000 NSX for a 996 Turbo. He gave me a ride in it and my eyes almost popped out with the incredible accelerations and handling. I was driving a 1997 NSX 6 sp at the time and I was greatly amazed by the Porsche.
There are many great bargains for the 996 Turbo currently and I always want to get one but one look at the headlights stops me at the track. Then of course the 997 Turbo looks so nice that I probably will wait a few years for the price to come down.
Steve

I agree with the looks thing - I never did take to the fried egg headlights of the 996 generation. The NSX looks much better to me - as does the 3rd gen RX7. I really like the newer GT3's and would consider buying one if/when the price of a used one gets into my budget range. I won't be selling any of my current cars to acquire one though. I like them all for different reasons.

 

[KooLaid]

LoL, I doubt I'll ever get to drive on the ring nor will I ever be a pro. I'm just another Joe (the college student) having a good ol' time wasting rubber.

I give Porsche a MUCH bigger thumbs up over Acura. Why? Simple. Who is still building and selling a sports car? lol :biggrin:

I love my Acura to death...BUT.... there are a whole hell of alot of other cars faster and slower that I gotta have in this lifetime still

 

[Malibu Rapper]

I drove my friend's 600HP 997 Turbo with KW suspension and hydraulic lift to raise up the front end. Straight line it was a beast, first gear went by in no time flat, man you have to be ready for 2nd gear. Steering feel wise I felt it was very similar to the NSX. I didn't get to take it on too many curves but it's a nice ride though honestly the overall NSX experience feels more special. It doesn't have the sound or looks of a Ferrari or Lambo. I didn't feel the need to buy one, especially since I own an NSX. I'm sure it would be a great car to own and track but it doesn't really draw me.

 

[bfrank1972]

The engine on the 996 Turbo *is* different than the n/a 996's. Just like the GT3 it's based on the same old crankcase they've used for years (a very good thing). The 996 watercooled engines started going with an entirely new design with an 'integrated dry sump'. Which is a load of bull - it works pretty much like any wet sump. The Turbo, GT3 (and of course the GT2) simplified are the old engines with water jackets for the cylinders (I believe the GT1 was the first to use this), and they are true dry sump engines. The Turbo in stock form, while truly fast, is somewhat of a 'pig' compared to what it should have been. That said, you can work one over to be a pretty incredible track machine.

 

[stuntman]

I like them, they are great cars and fun to drive:

 

[HockeyGoalie]

Had an opportunity to sport-drive a newer (06?) AWD Turbo last weekend........What do you think?

the yellow turbo in that picture is a 996 model year 2001-2005. The 997 turbo came out in 06

I 've driven them too. even in stock 420hp trim, they are FAST!!!!

 

[HockeyGoalie]

Common misconception.
RMS failure was primarily on the 996 standard block.
Not the GT1 block.
"Old fashioned" GT1 block still used on the 997GT3 cup cars.

I own a 2002 996 C4S with 63k miles and I've never had RMS. RMS happens to cars that sit and are never driven. The more you drive the car, the more reliable it will be.

It's is the most reliable car I've ever owned and I've owned 15 sports cars ranging from Z06' to M3's to S4's to porsches

 

[bfrank1972]

Yah Porsches can be dead reliable cars - probably more so than most. But they need PM, or they can get very expensive very quickly. Heck all cars need PM, but I find Porsches do not tolerate neglect well. That combined with the low prices today - you end up with people buying a 20K car that might require an engine rebuild that costs half of what you spent on the whole car. Everything is expensive on them, and if you don't set your expectations correctly then you might end up with a sour taste for the marque. It's even worse with the old M BMW's. The E28 M5's are most excellent cars - you can pick up decent examples in the 12K range. Need a full engine rebuild? That'll be another 12K please :biggrin:

 

[ANYTIME]

I own a 2002 996 C4S with 63k miles and I've never had RMS. RMS happens to cars that sit and are never driven. The more you drive the car, the more reliable it will be.

It's is the most reliable car I've ever owned and I've owned 15 sports cars ranging from Z06' to M3's to S4's to porsches

That's not really saying much.......

 

[TURBO2GO]

I think Porsche has some of the most brilliant engineers in the auto industry. I bought my 05 NSX after driving more than a few 996TT and 997S models. The NSX to me has a MUCH better seating position, and is better balanced. The CTSC and the NSX's lighter weight fixed any power issues for me. I still love the 911, but would not trade my CTSC NSX for it. I have never driven a GT3/GT2, but there are many things I prefer about a Cayman S or a Boxster S over a 911. As crazy as that sounds. I think both of these are very underrated because they are the "cheap" porsche, but I think they are a much better design and feel a lot more balanced to me when pushed HARD.

 

[NetViper]

I drove a 996 X50 and it was a rocket! I was shocked how fast it was. I was also shocked how bad the interior was for a 120K car. If you don't get the full leather package and all the options, you get a bunch of plastic and some blank buttons.

That being said, I would still love to own a 997 turbo someday. The new Cayman S are starting to appeal to me also. With the PDK they are some seriously fast cars.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Walter Röhrl on 911 GT3 vs. 911 Turbo

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[bfrank1972]

911 turbo+snow+Walter, what a FUN ride that would be :biggrin:

 

[tbromley]

Riding with Walter Rohl would be a thrill of a lifetime. The turbo Porsche is a quite impressive machine and the film was great.

Lightguy said something about boosting the car to 700 hp without having to do internals - that might be the case- but you'd be measuring your engine's life span in hours not years. There is no Porsche racing team that puts out lots of hp with their cars and doesn't modify internals.

Porsches are not like NSXs- and even the NSX will suffer under a super charger or turbo charger and a lead foot. NO DOUBT the life span is cut down.

Also, why would you do that to a stock 997 TT - it's designed to be just right by Porsceh and I bet if you could talk with Walter Rohl - about street use - he'd say the same thing. Listen to him when he talks about the cars he tests from the factory. You'll see. If you want to see a Porsche devalue start 700 hp mods and see what you can get for it 2 years later. You'd be shocked.

Too bad Honda didn't do more with the NSX like Porsche. Honda didn't start out the same way though. I just hope they build another sports car. I hope they build another mid engined sports car!

 

[NSXLuvr]

Just throwing my 2 cents in:

1. 996 are IMHO absolutely hideous. The interior is by far the worst interior I have seen in the car built in the 2000's. The boxster interior(which it shares with the 996) is actually a bit more appealing. There is a reason why the 996's are dirt cheap while 993's keep holding there value.

2. My 11 year old NSX with 64K miles doesn't drip oil. My GT3 started leaking oil at 4.5K miles. I was told it is RMS and that there is NO GOOD FIX for it as of yet.

3. Please don't compare a NSX to a cayman. My wife dropped off the GT3 for service last fall. They gave her a base cayman automatic with stripped interior. She drove to the mall and brought it back. She refused to drive it - She told the service manager that the car looks and drives like CRAP. Apparently the service manager was in SHOCK. He talked to the service guys but couldn't find her a 911. He apologized to her but told her that it was the only car available. We had the cayman for 5 days and She absolutely hated it. She told me that I better NEVER ever think about trading in the NSX for cayman or Boxster S. The two cars have similar specs but there interior dimensions and quality are not in the same league.

 

[tbromley]

NSXluvr said it all about the "new" Porsches. That's the reason I'm buying an NSX. Imagine a new top of the line Porshce GT3 leaking with an RMS issue at 4.5k miles - that is absolutely absurd. Die hard Porsche fans are dying on the vine. I've had 3 of them and there is absolutely no way I'm going to a water cooled variety and anyone that think Porsche is so reliable needs to do some reading.

I've done the reading and the blogging and I'll tell you it's a crap shoot at best whether or not your new 996 or 997 or 997.5 direct inj. model is gonna have expensive problems and who needs that just to say they have one and experience the "awesome" power at large expense.

That's why the NSX is such a great car!!!!! Reliability that is NO. 1. I've heard though that they are beginning to stop making some interior parts for it so I don't know what to think about that. Honda needs to do better by it's NSX coalition!

2 more cents worth

Tim

 

[whiteNSXs]

Just throwing my 2 cents in:

1. 996 are IMHO absolutely hideous. The interior is by far the worst interior I have seen in the car built in the 2000's. The boxster interior(which it shares with the 996) is actually a bit more appealing. There is a reason why the 996's are dirt cheap while 993's keep holding there value.

2. My 11 year old NSX with 64K miles doesn't drip oil. My GT3 started leaking oil at 4.5K miles. I was told it is RMS and that there is NO GOOD FIX for it as of yet.

3. Please don't compare a NSX to a cayman. My wife dropped off the GT3 for service last fall. They gave her a base cayman automatic with stripped interior. She drove to the mall and brought it back. She refused to drive it - She told the service manager that the car looks and drives like CRAP. Apparently the service manager was in SHOCK. He talked to the service guys but couldn't find her a 911. He apologized to her but told her that it was the only car available. We had the cayman for 5 days and She absolutely hated it. She told me that I better NEVER ever think about trading in the NSX for cayman or Boxster S. The two cars have similar specs but there interior dimensions and quality are not in the same league.

1. Agreed. When the 996 first came out. I could not believed what I saw. It was ugly but I thought I could warm up to it since it was getting rave reviews. I was at the Porsche Factory in 1999 thinking about picking one up through the European Delivery Program. Everything SOUNDED good on paper. I was trying to look at different colors and interiors to see if any special combo may improve the ugliness. The stock market was doing awesome and I just wanted to spend some "free" money. I figured I could not do wrong if the car was free. After the factory tour. At the time, my wife, sister, and my 10 month old baby were there and all three of us just could not go past that ugliness. Good decision since the car's resale value dropped like the stock market at the time.

2. Superior Honda reliability except that painful snap-ring, window regulator and AC evaporator. All three cost me thousands of dollars.

3. No offense. But an automatic base Cayman is a girlie car and that is not representative of Porsche's performance abilities. Unfortunately, tiny companies such as Porsche needs to make products that appeal to the average Joes to survive.
My first drive of the NSX was not impressive at all. The salesman was next to me. We were just driving on the street. The low end was uninpiring and the first to second shift was disappointing to say the least. To make it shine, I had to really step on it but it made me look like a pretentious jackass trying to show off "his" car which had a "used car" sticker.
My point is, the Cayman S cannot be judged by a brief local street brief drive. The ergonomics is different from the NSX but I think it is very nice. I was hoping that Porsche would build a "Cayman 4S" with a C4S drivetrain. It likely cannot compare to NSX's reliability but it is a great little car except a few small ugly details.
Steve

 

[2slow2speed]

3. No offense. But an automatic base Cayman is a girlie car and that is not representative of Porsche's performance abilities. Unfortunately, tiny companies such as Porsche needs to make products that appeal to the average Joes to survive.
My first drive of the NSX was not impressive at all. The salesman was next to me. We were just driving on the street. The low end was uninpiring and the first to second shift was disappointing to say the least. To make it shine, I had to really step on it but it made me look like a pretentious jackass trying to show off "his" car which had a "used car" sticker.
My point is, the Cayman S cannot be judged by a brief local street brief drive. The ergonomics is different from the NSX but I think it is very nice. I was hoping that Porsche would build a "Cayman 4S" with a C4S drivetrain. It likely cannot compare to NSX's reliability but it is a great little car except a few small ugly details.
Steve

Hey Steve,

IMHO it would be a "non trivial project" for Porsche to build a Cayman 4S, relative to a Carrera 4S the engine/tranny is rotated 180 degrees so everything is facing the wrong way, that is what makes the Cayman a MR car instead of a RR car.

It would be more likely for Porsche to produce a Cayman Club Sport than a Cayman 4S.

3. Please don't compare a NSX to a cayman. My wife dropped off the GT3 for service last fall. They gave her a base cayman automatic with stripped interior. She drove to the mall and brought it back. She refused to drive it - She told the service manager that the car looks and drives like CRAP. Apparently the service manager was in SHOCK. He talked to the service guys but couldn't find her a 911. He apologized to her but told her that it was the only car available. We had the cayman for 5 days and She absolutely hated it. She told me that I better NEVER ever think about trading in the NSX for cayman or Boxster S. The two cars have similar specs but there interior dimensions and quality are not in the same league.

Hey Ritesh,

Sorry to hear about how PCNA is handling the RMS isssues on your car. I have a friend who goes through P-cars like crazy. IIRC he has had 5 GT3's (996's/997/GT3RS) and from what I know he has not had any RMS issues with his cars. He still has his RS and 997GT3, but races a Spec Boxster car.

As far as handling department goes a stock Cayman S with PASM outhandles a stock NSX, with the exception of a NSX-R. I just spent 2 days tracking my barely broken in 08 Cayman S with factory alignment specs, street tires, street pads and the only mod that I have done on the car is a Quaife TBD (torque based differential) and came away very impressed with the car.

KenjiMR also got to track my car for some laps and he mentioned that it handled just like a NSX but with a bit more punch, and better brakes. The only downside that we both felt were the seats, the stock sports seats are very unfriendly to folks riding with helmets because of the shape of the headrest portion of the seat and that requires the seat to be leaned back to a sub-optimal driving position. Andrie has also tracked the Cayman and he also says that it handles just like a NSX

As far as the looks goes the NSX looks better than the Cayman. That being said the Cayman follows the Boxster looks, so it's a cohesive familiar look as far as Porsche goes.

The 997GT3 interior is nicer than the base Cayman, there is no doubt about it, perhaps your wife was dissapointed with the interior of the Cayman compared to the interior of your GT3. The suspension of the base Cayman is very different from your GT3 that has PASM so that is another thing to consider. The engine on your GT3 is a 415HP engine vs 270 for a base Cayman even worse with a tiptronic. There are folks selling their MKI 997GT3 and picking up Gen II Cayman S's, if the Cayman was so crappy there would not be that many people doing so. I passed on a used 997GT3 and got a killerr deal on a leftover 08 Cayman S Sport, and I'm not looking back. Once the DFI engine issues are sorted out I might pick one of those up or a Cayman CS if they ever come out with one.

BTW: I do miss my highly modded NSX, but I do not miss a stock NSX, no way

Ken

 

[Hugh]

The Cayman looks like the bastard child of a Boxster and a Chrysler Crossfire. Gotta hand it to those Germans for building the ugliest cars in the world. :smile:

 

[NSXLuvr]

BTW: I do miss my highly modded NSX, but I do not miss a stock NSX, no way

Ken

Hey Ken,

Its good to hear from you. When did you make the move from NSX to CS? I have done PCA DE's with my NSX and I would say a sorted NSX and a sorted Cayman S are VERY equal. It is completely a driver's race. Actually I would say the CS has better steering feedback and better brakes. But my wife doesn't care about any of that stuff.:wink: All she cares about is if the car has decent accleration and is nice looking inside and out. Based on those criteria the base Cayman auto with 250 hp IIRC failed. I actually apologized to the head service manager when I went to pick up the car.

 

[NSXLuvr]

Regarding the GT3: I would say other than the few drops of oil on my garage the car is absolutely incredible. IMHO it is the best sports car in the world right now. It is truly an absolute jack of all trades. It is an awesome track car, a great date night car, has room for wknd trips. Sure a F430 has more valet appeal. But I prefer the fact that most people ignore my car and think its just "another" 911.

I give a 9.5/10. Now if Porsche would just figure out the little oil leak issue!

 

[Hugh]

One thing that is for sure is that Porsche is a diehard sports car manufacturer .......and keeps on winning on the race tracks.

Hello!!! That's because 99% of the time they only race against each other. In Le Mans and ALMS they're relegated to GT2 since the Vettes would regularly embarrass them. In the Koni Challenge they're regularly spanked by Mustangs and silly 3 Series BMWs for God's sake.

Granted a 996/7 is a powerful car that's very fast in a straight line but they handle like farm trucks, are as common as dry cleaners in NYC, are ugly and technically they're not even sports cars since they have a back seat.

It's nothing more than a cult car and Porsche is very smart about marketing the car and selling over half of their production to a very gullible U.S. market. Hell, 53% of the last vote went to Obama. If that's not a testament to the stupidity of the general population, I don't know what is!

 

[whiteNSXs]

Hello!!! That's because 99% of the time they only race against each other. In Le Mans and ALMS they're relegated to GT2 since the Vettes would regularly embarrass them. In the Koni Challenge they're regularly spanked by Mustangs and silly 3 Series BMWs for God's sake.

Granted a 996/7 is a powerful car that's very fast in a straight line but they handle like farm trucks, are as common as dry cleaners in NYC, are ugly and technically they're not even sports cars since they have a back seat.

Hugh,
It's nothing more than a cult car and Porsche is very smart about marketing the car and selling over half of their production to a very gullible U.S. market. Hell, 53% of the last vote went to Obama. If that's not a testament to the stupidity of the general population, I don't know what is!

What motivated you to say stuffs that you did is obviously from some kind of hatred towards Porsche. Why don't you go outside to drive a modern Porsche like Ken, Ritesh, and many of us who actually like cars and would accept the fact that all cars have their pluses and minuses? You also struck me as someone that would just trash talk when the name "Porsche" comes up but has absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I have been driving NSXs for more than a decade and have experiences with many Porsches. I can only tell you that the 997 is a very impressive car with exceptional power and handling. My co-worker's 2009 C4S spanks my NSX hands down. Yes, the 997 has its flaws and yes, all 911s have their engines in the wrong place. But to say that Porsche ownership is nothing but a cult following and act of stupidity reflects how hateful, ignorant, and irrational your thoughts are. I don't suppose there is any point of further arguing with you since whatever comes out from you about Porsche is just meaningless. Perhaps a better advice is to just ask you to test drive a broken-in Porsche and then we will talk. But then, I already know that you would tell me the Porsche is a piece of crap, what else?
Steve

 

[Hugh]

blah blah blah blah blah blah

You are in serious need of a sense of humor. Do you have a video of the C4S spanking the NSX? I love spanking videos, they make me all tingly if you know what I mean.

 

[VegasSpeed]

Some of the people on here are so biased by the cars they own. Relax and just realize that some cars are going to be better cars than a NSX. The poster that explained how Honda left this car alone for too long after 1991 was right. It was great for years but Honda didn't make enough changes over the years. Then in 2002-2005 we are expected to believe that an 05' is that much better than a 1991 NSX. Look at how Porsche has changed cars up over the years with 911's. The NSX got forgotten about over the years. It is sad considering how good it started out as.

Whoever said a 911tt is a pig on the track is out of their mind. 911's kill on the road tracks and I have been there to see it. They handle well and blast you on the straight lines. Porsche makes a great track car. That is why the local PCA clubs all do track events. How many NSX clubs do that around your parts? Hell, very few will take their NSX to the track even though that is where you see its true value. The car isn't as good on the normal streets. It is meant to be driven a track at least once. The car handles great but you won't notice it on the streets as much.

Porsches have another problem of having oil leaks all the time. It is a running joke that they all have leaks so expect to have one. I can't afford the maintenance personally so I am not buying one.