Had an opportunity to sport-drive a newer (06?) AWD Turbo last weekend. This one (owned by a former NSX owner) has been modified a bit with full exhaust, computer and intake....the owner says the AWHP is likely north of 500. Interesting car, huge Perelli's all around, unbelievable grip. It only redlines at about 6500 but the accelleration from 3K to redline is addicting. Throttle response is immediate and the surge forward is almost scary. Brakes are amazing as well. Ergo's are very German and not nearly as comfy as the NSX. Shifting, even with a short shift kit is not as good as the NSX. I'll never be able to afford one so there won't be one in my future but, I can sure see why people lust for the big HP. All in all though, it kinda gave me an appreciation for the incredibly well balanced 20 year old design of the Honda. I know its very subjective but, I think the NSX is better looking too! (so did the locals in this remote Eastern Oregon town).......What do you think?
Impressions of a Turbo Porsche
- Thread starter nsxpilot
- Start date
The turbo Porsche is the most impressive car I've ever driven. The interiors fit and finish materials are excellent. Its does not have the styling of my X and it's not as easy to drive. If I could afford the Porsche - it would be parked right next to my X. If I really need speed - my choice is my Beemer R1150R. Happy Motoring!
A fellow car nut I know said the only modern car he is looking forward to getting is the 996GT2. Hes owned a long list of Ferraris and Lambos.
I could not agree more.
You can get a stock 996TT for $40k and boost it to 700 HP before the engines internals need to be modified. Or 600 HP reliably daily driven. Bang for the buck cannot be beat. Turbos, GT2 and GT3's used the Le Mans winning GT1 block.
Put it on a cheap weight reduction program and you have a Enzo beater.
I could not agree more.
You can get a stock 996TT for $40k and boost it to 700 HP before the engines internals need to be modified. Or 600 HP reliably daily driven. Bang for the buck cannot be beat. Turbos, GT2 and GT3's used the Le Mans winning GT1 block.
Put it on a cheap weight reduction program and you have a Enzo beater.
First time I have ever heard "bang for the buck" and Porsche mentioned in the same sentence. :tongue:
The secret is "used".
A $120k TT new in 2001 can be had for $40k now. Most are low mile weekend cars. They are capable of 150k to 200k reliable miles.
I drove an old 74 911 bought for $6500, drove it daily for three years adding 80k miles, then sold it for $4500. It wasn't "free" but pretty close.
911's and NSX's are a terrific used car value to gear heads.
996TT with mods = Daily driver F50/Enzo.
I'm still a fan of the early models {85/89} fat rear fenders/turbo tail. Those looked awesome from the rear.
Some examples of that?
There's a local (former) NSX owner who moved on to the 996TT and then the 997TT. He said the 996 was the worst of the three. He affectionately called it "the pig". LOLz.
ditto. I hear the new direct injection engines are much better than the RMS failure prone engines in the 996.
http://www.rennlist.com/
Search "high miles" in the 996TT forum.
What comes to mind is one fellow in Switzerland has 150k+ on his X50. No problems.
I tried to link the thread but it didnt take.
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Common misconception.
RMS failure was primarily on the 996 standard block.
Not the GT1 block.
"Old fashioned" GT1 block still used on the 997GT3 cup cars.
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After I acquired my NSX, my 996TT never got driven much despite having twice the hp.
Yes the 997TT is definatly faster than a 996TT.
But then the Veyron is faster than a 997TT. I would get one of those instead and be done with it.
Hey Guys,
Never driven the TT but standard 996 and it's fast too. Problem is that Porsches are shall we say challenged in the maintenance department. Difficult to drive a TT as a daily and 99% of the folks that own them don't. Wonder why - maintenance is one reason I believe.
Someone mentioned the RMS - rear main seal failures that also have plagued even some 997s. The bigger issue with the 996 is not just the RMS annoyance although it can lead to engine replacement and has in the past for some but it's the worse of the two imo, it's the intermediate shaft bearing failure and when that occurs - it's engine replacement time for sure and that's just a little 15k "maintenance" issue. They don't even bother to fix em - instead engine replacement is the answer. When the bearing fails it sends the bearings balls back into the engine and boom.
That can affect the TT too. Same engine, I used to think it was a different block but the mentor of the Porsche list I'm also on is Adrian Streather, written several books on Porsche models, 993, SC, 964 and knows a bunch -says that the 996TT comes off the same line as the regular models. So I guess there is no real safety in the TT.
Replacement of pads and rotors every time - now that's the kind of thing that keeps sane individuals from buying unless they have tons of cash. Sure you can buy a 996TT for 40k now, I found them and was thinking about one, but then sanity took over and where did I land - in the world of the NSX. One big reason is resale value and what's the second big reason - reasonable maintenance and no inherant weaknesses in design. Other than the small group of snap ring cars. That's it - no other inherant weaknesses unless the AC head in some early cars was another one and I'm not that much of an NSX officiando yet. The only other high ticket maintenance issue in the NSX second gen cars is Dual Mass Flywheel/clutch replacement at around 4k now that ain't cheap and really another issue for me. They also last a long time if driven properly like so many other things but especially that - right?
So performance ok, 996TT's have greater excelleration - so what - they aren't dragsters and neither is the NSX. Fun cars, good looks, and subjective as to which looks better - beauty being in the eye of the beholder etc. Porsche makes a great car and most don't have big issues with the RMS although that may have affected as much as 50% of Boxsters and 996s and the bearing issue only 5 - 10% - so "do you feel lucky, punk", well do ya? I don't feel lucky and I don't want to find out the hard way either. Let someone else spin the wheel of "fortune" on that one - not me. I'd rather have an NSX.
Now before you start saying yeah, but they aren't as fast, don't brake as well, or whatever. Let's take a second to pause for considering the following: the 997.5 2010 GT3 ok, it's got 439 hp and great everything - Just read in my Excellence magazine about it - Walter Rohl great test driver for Porsche - really great - drove the Nurburgring in it - lap time 7:40 mins. WOW, right, ok, let me take you back to the film, which you can you tube btw, of the first gen NSX-R with Japanese driver of some caliber, did the same lap in 7:56. So how bout your performance monster now??? What say ye of NSX ownership now - still want that super expensive GT3? Could go to Japan and get an NSX-R for less money and there you have it and it would be rock solid reliable - now wouldn't it and guess what - it would cost about or more than it did NEW!
The NSX has the highest resale value of any sportscar made except for real old antique super cars or a 356 as well. But in the modern car world nothing beats it for resale and what's more nothing beats in cost per mile in the world of the exotice modern super car.
That's all I've got to say.
Tim
Atlanta and still searching for the perfect NSX - white or silver 93 low miler- all leads are greatly appreciated - thank you. Preferrable not dealer owned!
Never driven the TT but standard 996 and it's fast too. Problem is that Porsches are shall we say challenged in the maintenance department. Difficult to drive a TT as a daily and 99% of the folks that own them don't. Wonder why - maintenance is one reason I believe.
Someone mentioned the RMS - rear main seal failures that also have plagued even some 997s. The bigger issue with the 996 is not just the RMS annoyance although it can lead to engine replacement and has in the past for some but it's the worse of the two imo, it's the intermediate shaft bearing failure and when that occurs - it's engine replacement time for sure and that's just a little 15k "maintenance" issue. They don't even bother to fix em - instead engine replacement is the answer. When the bearing fails it sends the bearings balls back into the engine and boom.
That can affect the TT too. Same engine, I used to think it was a different block but the mentor of the Porsche list I'm also on is Adrian Streather, written several books on Porsche models, 993, SC, 964 and knows a bunch -says that the 996TT comes off the same line as the regular models. So I guess there is no real safety in the TT.
Replacement of pads and rotors every time - now that's the kind of thing that keeps sane individuals from buying unless they have tons of cash. Sure you can buy a 996TT for 40k now, I found them and was thinking about one, but then sanity took over and where did I land - in the world of the NSX. One big reason is resale value and what's the second big reason - reasonable maintenance and no inherant weaknesses in design. Other than the small group of snap ring cars. That's it - no other inherant weaknesses unless the AC head in some early cars was another one and I'm not that much of an NSX officiando yet. The only other high ticket maintenance issue in the NSX second gen cars is Dual Mass Flywheel/clutch replacement at around 4k now that ain't cheap and really another issue for me. They also last a long time if driven properly like so many other things but especially that - right?
So performance ok, 996TT's have greater excelleration - so what - they aren't dragsters and neither is the NSX. Fun cars, good looks, and subjective as to which looks better - beauty being in the eye of the beholder etc. Porsche makes a great car and most don't have big issues with the RMS although that may have affected as much as 50% of Boxsters and 996s and the bearing issue only 5 - 10% - so "do you feel lucky, punk", well do ya? I don't feel lucky and I don't want to find out the hard way either. Let someone else spin the wheel of "fortune" on that one - not me. I'd rather have an NSX.
Now before you start saying yeah, but they aren't as fast, don't brake as well, or whatever. Let's take a second to pause for considering the following: the 997.5 2010 GT3 ok, it's got 439 hp and great everything - Just read in my Excellence magazine about it - Walter Rohl great test driver for Porsche - really great - drove the Nurburgring in it - lap time 7:40 mins. WOW, right, ok, let me take you back to the film, which you can you tube btw, of the first gen NSX-R with Japanese driver of some caliber, did the same lap in 7:56. So how bout your performance monster now??? What say ye of NSX ownership now - still want that super expensive GT3? Could go to Japan and get an NSX-R for less money and there you have it and it would be rock solid reliable - now wouldn't it and guess what - it would cost about or more than it did NEW!
The NSX has the highest resale value of any sportscar made except for real old antique super cars or a 356 as well. But in the modern car world nothing beats it for resale and what's more nothing beats in cost per mile in the world of the exotice modern super car.
That's all I've got to say.
Tim
Atlanta and still searching for the perfect NSX - white or silver 93 low miler- all leads are greatly appreciated - thank you. Preferrable not dealer owned!
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Just have to jump in here. I have had most everything including 2 NSX 2002 cars. One modified and one stock. I currently have a modified 996TT which is my second Porsche. While I love the "balance" of the NSXs that I had my 996 is breath taking when you are in the Tubos. With the AWD it just leaps forward and with extra wide tires (after market HRE wheels) it has the grip to handle the power. I have yet to track the car but that should be a blast.
On the contrary, my TT was very reliable and maintenance was only a yearly oil change (they do like to drink alot of oil). Besides, if you can afford a TT then you should be able to afford the maintenance on it.
The problem for me is that I got bored of driving in a straight line very fast. The car was a PIG on the track. Plus modding a PCar didn't come cheap. But they are fun cars, and I hope to get my hands on a GT3RS dedicated track car.
The problem for me is that I got bored of driving in a straight line very fast. The car was a PIG on the track. Plus modding a PCar didn't come cheap. But they are fun cars, and I hope to get my hands on a GT3RS dedicated track car.
Still wish I would of bought a porsche. I was porsche shopping when I bought the nsx and that was because the local porsche dealer was being @ssholes.
As great as my nsx is, a porsche 911 is simply something I've ALWAYS wanted in my life. That and a viper. Fulfilling childhood/teenage dreams one car at a time you know lol
Drove a 996T, modified to 600 hp at Blackhawk Farms 2 years ago and was very impressed with the brute velocity of the beast. It is not an easy car to drive at the limit on a race track and I've driven a few. I can see where TTO (and throttle on oversteer for that matter) can bite hard with those things. The woman who owns the car claims she has had it flat out in the Kink at Road America in 5th gear (good for 125+mph). The Skippy instructors are fond of pointing out that the inside wall of the Kink is painted w/ every color Dr. Porsche has painted the 911.
I always think that the 911 Turbos are the bargains for the automotive world with their performace capabilities. They are almost peerless in their price segment for the past 35 years.
The 996 Turbo is a kick ass car but I don't like it's look. When it first came out in 2001/2002, a local NSXer Steve Brown traded in his very, very nicely modified 2000 NSX for a 996 Turbo. He gave me a ride in it and my eyes almost popped out with the incredible accelerations and handling. I was driving a 1997 NSX 6 sp at the time and I was greatly amazed by the Porsche.
There are many great bargains for the 996 Turbo currently and I always want to get one but one look at the headlights stops me at the track. Then of course the 997 Turbo looks so nice that I probably will wait a few years for the price to come down.
Steve
LOL For what it's worth, back in 99 when I got the NSX I did shop a Porsche. If things were reversed and the NSX's were a dime a dozen so to speak, I'd have probably gotten the Porsche, however in SoCal the reverse is true and Porsche's are everywhere in one model or another, so I went with different, went with the NSX. :biggrin:
Greetings
I have never know anyone who had a "cheap to own" Porsche. My experience is that this is impossible -- like finding (your favorite type of car here) out in the boonies somewhere in a corn crib (or other building of your choosing) under a canvas and paying some old farmer $100 to haul it away.
Cheers,
Martin
I have never know anyone who had a "cheap to own" Porsche. My experience is that this is impossible -- like finding (your favorite type of car here) out in the boonies somewhere in a corn crib (or other building of your choosing) under a canvas and paying some old farmer $100 to haul it away.
Cheers,
Martin
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- 29 May 2007
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A few things to note...in the hands of a pro driver 16 seconds is an eternity - the Carrera GT and Enzo run approx. 16 seconds faster than the GT3 and I have yet to hear anyone say they are close to being equal cars. Also, the NSX R run at the ring was an NA2 and is quicker than any stock NA1 or NA2 that you will be purchasing. I run the local PCA track nights and we have the occassional member bring an NSX and they run in the middle of the pack - far behind the GT3's and 996 Turbo's. Most of the time the NSX is in the same bracket as the 996 C2's and the odd Cayman with all the driver aids turned on. While the 996 product line resale values suck the NSX isn't that great either considering that the price when new were in the $100K+ range here in Canada. It's also well known in Porsche circles that the 996 TT's and GT3's don't suffer from the same widespread RMS problems. You may argue that your expert says they have the same block and I'm sure you can point to a few that have had issues but for the most part they are trouble free. I actually know of guys who use the AWD 996 TT as their daily driver - summer and winter. Not too many NSX guys north of the 49th who can say that.
On another note, have you actually driven an NSX yet? How about a 996 TT or GT3? Each is different and in my opinion the best out of the three is the GT3 by a wide margin. You apparently have a sour taste left in your mouth from your Porsche experience and I respect your opinion but disagree with your conclusions.
One thing that is for sure is that Porsche is a diehard sports car manufacturer that keeps on building better and better machines and keeps on winning on the race tracks. The NSX is one exceptional sports car but it is more like a one hit wonder. It is an orphan that got abandoned without any significant further development or improvement over 15 years of production. I feel very fortunate to have enjoyed the NSX for the past decade. As talented and powerful as the Honda empire, they clearly no longer have the ambition to challenge the big dogs currently. That "dream" thing died with Sochiro and Senna. The Porsche spirits however live on after Ferry passed away thanks for Butzi and his team of deputies. If one understands how "tiny" Porsche is as a car manufacturer, one should be mightily impresssed by its winning history and the lineage of its marvelous machines. Honda is probably at least 10 times as big as Porsche but Porsche has ALWAYS been sitting up there with the best and owes no one any excuses. I simply cannot comprehend how ignorant one can be to think that Honda won more races internationally than Porsche did. Must be some blind dumbass who would not even bother checking some statistics. The NSX is a great car and simply was one of the most ground breaking super cars of all time. But the world turns and the NSX had its better days already. I know I like the NSX's look better than the Cayman S, but that little alligator surely drives as beautifully as the NSX.A few things to note...in the hands of a pro driver 16 seconds is an eternity - the Carrera GT and Enzo run approx. 16 seconds faster than the GT3 and I have yet to hear anyone say they are close to being equal cars. Also, the NSX R run at the ring was an NA2 and is quicker than any stock NA1 or NA2 that you will be purchasing. I run the local PCA track nights and we have the occassional member bring an NSX and they run in the middle of the pack - far behind the GT3's and 996 Turbo's. Most of the time the NSX is in the same bracket as the 996 C2's and the odd Cayman with all the driver aids turned on. While the 996 product line resale values suck the NSX isn't that great either considering that the price when new were in the $100K+ range here in Canada. It's also well known in Porsche circles that the 996 TT's and GT3's don't suffer from the same widespread RMS problems. You may argue that your expert says they have the same block and I'm sure you can point to a few that have had issues but for the most part they are trouble free. I actually know of guys who use the AWD 996 TT as their daily driver - summer and winter. Not too many NSX guys north of the 49th who can say that.
On another note, have you actually driven an NSX yet? How about a 996 TT or GT3? Each is different and in my opinion the best out of the three is the GT3 by a wide margin. You apparently have a sour taste left in your mouth from your Porsche experience and I respect your opinion but disagree with your conclusions.
Steve
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