I want to add a 100 hp nos to my stock nsx

[DutchBlackNsx]

Not looking to get into a heated discussion or ride any nerves. I pretty much take your word on most of what you write, but no, I'm probably not going to install a N2O system on any of my cars. I read this thread because I'm interested in most things related to engine performance and it doesn't hurt, right? But if I see something that doesn't sound right I'll speak up. HP is a calculated value. Dynamometers can only measure the torque at any given point in time. The HP value must be calculated from measured torque. HP = (torque x RPM)/5252. Look at any dyno chart and punch in the numbers to verify. Thus if torque flatlines, HP still goes up as RPMs go up. But if I hear that HP is the same throughout the powerband, I raise an eyebrow and ask a question because it doesn't sound right to me.

Its not in the calculation, its as a result of how n2o is aplied. That nozzle is just sitting there spraying x-amount of n2o in x-amount of time. It doesnt know about your RPM. With other words, on low revs the engine gets loads of n2o per revolution, as on high revs, the n2o hardly helps any, hence, a dualstage setup, or a more advanced pulsating setup.

 

[Daedalus]

I think I get it. So what you're saying is that yes, indeed, there is more torque added on at lower RPMs than higher RPMs because at lower RPMs each cylinder has a higher % of N2O (vs air) than it does at higher RPMs--with a simple WOT fogger system. You *feel* a much higher difference in acceleration at 4000 RPMs than you do at 7500 RPMs vs. stock. Torque benefit from N2O DOES drop from 2500-7500 RPM. If that is correct then my question is answered.

 

[BadCarma]

I think I get it. So what you're saying is that yes, indeed, there is more torque added on at lower RPMs than higher RPMs because at lower RPMs each cylinder has a higher % of N2O (vs air) than it does at higher RPMs--with a simple WOT fogger system. You *feel* a much higher difference in acceleration at 4000 RPMs than you do at 7500 RPMs vs. stock. Torque benefit from N2O DOES drop from 2500-7500 RPM. If that is correct then my question is answered.

DAE, nobody is pissed off or on edge,I tend to come across that way afetr no sleep but its was is a good question. I dont want to be the person that is never challenged,or right. we used to have what you would call heated talks on here of a tech nature allt he time.I miss all those wild debates.
dutch you hit the nail on the head but dae AND I are still going to discuss HP and cfm afetr my nappy nap I hope
best regards david AND YOUR ALL FIRED AFTER YOUR SHIFT....EXCELLENT

 

[BadCarma]

HEY BADCARMA I pm'ed you with the title N02 phone help like you asked, can you check it out I would love to get your advice before I go throw some more money away. If you are not available by phone let me know whats the best way to reach you. I have my kit listed above I just want to first collect all the parts I need to make this a complete safe badcarma approved kit. Than I will find a good tuner around here to install it. Thanks

yay,you have a pm,sndsouls kit was pretty darn good, we will get you up and running, no worrys

 

[BadCarma]

Badcarma,

I also PM'd you with some Q's on my N2O install.

you have a pm also,I wont leave you hangin, I will call you bout your setup and you will be up and running soon also

 

[sahtt]

sahtt, From one standpoint, the cost for decent modifications for the NSX are so expensive, nitrous becomes a great alternative to those that want a stock performing/sounding NSX when they want, and a z06 killer when they need it.
SO you are saying that n20 done correctly is a cheap solution But not a decent modifiction? also you think our X'S are stock? and not modded with I/HE untill we hit the magic button? then its a zo6 killer.

Never said anything to suggest nitrous wasn't a 'decent' modification. Don't waste your time getting defensive, you have no need to. By decent I meant cheaper parts vs highend japenese parts like 2-3k exhausts. It makes absolutely no difference whether your NSX, or any other NSX that is contemplating adding a nitrous system is stock or not regarding the points I made.

From another standpoint, the replacement cost for an NSX engine is quite high. 75hp is not worth getting overly concerned about, but at 100hp or above puts enough additional stress on the engine to the point you should not be attempting it if you cannot risk replacing the engine. Done right, it can last many years. If done even slightly incorrectly, you will be out 10 grand overnight.
So correct me here because I want to understand your logic,at 100 hp is it n20 that becomes unsafe or the n20 safe and a risk the S/C also that is making a 100hp? so if the n20 is done right and the S/C WRONG wheres that put us?

I don't fully understand what you are saying but I'll do my best. We can both agree, adding 1000hp by way of nitrous would be detrimental to the NSX engine. 500hp? Probably the same. 300hp? If the engine was completely built, with lower compression, etc., and some very large injectors, it could be safe. On a stock engine? Still detrimental. Where do you draw the line? My logic is from experience. The NSX engine is a fairly high compression n/a setup with 276hp-290hp. The 100 shot will roughly add at least 100bhp, or 33% of the engine's original output. This is the figure I and my collegues typically consider the point in which the additional stress on the engine becomes noteworthy. There is almost no way to determine it scientifically without doing a trial with leakdown and compression tests, if not full blown engine teardowns, to see how much excess wear and tear the nitrous, or any modification, has caused. Bottom line, it would be wise for the individual to do enough research to decide where on his particular setup he should draw the line between 'safe' power and 'potentially hazardous' power. I think that line is around a 100 shot on a stock NSX. It would be very difficult to refute that with any evidence, as saying your particular car did so means very little, but I'm glad for you if that is your case.

Towards the end of this section, I think you were touching on the golden question, how is 100hp from nitrous any different as far as wear and tear and strain on the engine than a SC or turbo charger setup? Well, in fact, it can cause more. The means in which the power is produced is not the same, though similar. This is an excerpt I did not write, so I'll quote it-

"If there isn't enough fuel, and the NO2 is cracked into it's consitiuent parts, you have excess liberated O2. So more than just run lean, the O2 can actually ignite and BURN components of your engine---most notably the pistons. This is why the most sophisticated NO2 systems now utilize WBO2 feedback in the safety loop to disable the NO2 injection of the equation.
Like Jeff points out, first you run lean, and break the pistons, but if you keep in it, and pump that cylinder full of NO2, and it cracks into the separate parts, then that 30%+ Oxygen-Rich Environment will start something burning.
If you are lucky, you break pistons. If you are unlucky, or just plain stoopid, you BURN PARTS...The nature in which N02 produces its power makes it more dangerous than a FI setup, even if both are well coordinated and tuned."

"The real issue then becomes the switching of the NOS on and off. With fuel injectioon it is possible to make a circuit that will switch on and off the NOS based an a mumber of parameters of the engine to make it wery effective for the N/A engine. Switching is KEY in such a system, but I only know of one system that will do that, at least that I would use, and again that is a calculation. Learn you basic BOSCH fuel injection system, then get into the formulas for calculation mixture, Then and ONLY then begin work with NOS. You can always choose to do the seat of the pants setup, but in most cases it will end up in broken pistons."

It would be a shame to blow your engine up when you could have had a well set up SC or even turbo kit for much less.
I can get a S/C and correct engine management tuned and set up for much less then 10 grand? including a stand alone ecu and all the dyno time and a wide band logger OR you mean I could get a S/C base unit from COMPTECH and using their state of the art FMS I am way safer then the way I ,we do it with n20 which is BTW the same!. help me learn here,its never to late.what works best on your S/C?
looking forward to your response to ALL the questions answered as I really want to understand how they do the magic they do with a 100 saftey record.
for all you hard core tuners ready to xplain it to me I want to hear from the wise man first on ALL the points then feel free to chime?
Best Regards David

You could get a less aggressive SC system setup for under 10k, especially if you didn't max out the stock fuel injectors. Well under if you do the work yourself and source some of the parts used that don't 'need' be new'er'. What does 'much less' mean to you? I don't know. I'm not going to break down the parts just to 'prove' to you it can be done. I'm not arguing that nitrous isn't cheaper, I'm saying you could quite possibly have a FI system that you can use for the next 5 or 10 years with the money 'risked' by doing a larger nitrous shot. For some cars, a junkyard turbo setup is more than a replacement engine, the NSX is not one of them.

Just do your HW as it seems you are and you'll probably be fine.
we will take your thoughts to heart on this matter. BTW whats the differnce between how n20 makes its power and a standard 6 psi S/C and what is the difference in what is done hardware wise to tune the 6 psi COMPTECH unit and N20. Fyi THEY BOTH USE THE SAME TRICKING OF THE STCK ECU to attain A/F. if I add an aem ecu to control my n20 is it safer then the way the comptech unit controls A/F now?
and lastly do you own a supercharger? if so do you understand how it tricks the ecu into proper A/F and if so do you know how a n20 dry kit tricks the ECU? I really want to understand and save my precious motor from a 10 grand slag from a cheap trick setup that is good enough for n20 dry but not as solid as a S/C. btw has ,have ANY comptech blowers slagged a motor due to improper A/F or a turbo for that matter. please take the time to retort as you took the time to disparage and want to know these things so I never injure my motor with a bad S/C or n20 fuel mangement design. and will then dismiss those photos of the S/C comptech car with a whole in the engine block you could STICK your head through.
Their is always so much to learn from the new tuners these days, you are a tuner right? I may be intererested having my car tuned by you so I dont lose its awesome A/F on and off the juice AND I really want to understand how and why my motors compression is so good. and can help me with my COMPTECH S/C with direct port n20 setup I am working on so I have it down pat.

Where to start.. I won't get into too much detail since much of this is a ramblings entrenched with frustrations about SC vs nitrous 'rivalry', or something like that.

You are going way deeper into the matter as far as the hardware of the two systems [SC vs nitrous] and their than I am concerned with. I'm not defending the SC systems specifically for the NSX. I don't care what tuning these packages have, stand alone is better, aem ems is great, less exact ways adjusting fuel pressure etc. is always going to be the cheaper, less efficient way. As far as our comparisons about 'your' nitrous setup using aem vs the SC package using a cheap FRM being more reliable is hard to evaluate, there is not enough information available to me to even give an educated opinion on that.
I do not own a supercharger on a NSX. I've worked on and setup many SC'd cars, including my past s2k. I've also built my turbo 300zx on an engine stand and am fairly familiar with most tuning softwares. The only cars I regularly tune now are ones with K series engines using K-pro. I do not consider myself even an amature tuner, nor ever claimed to be. I also currently have a suzuki bandit 1200cc with a 40+/- shot I use every once in a while at the drag strip, so I've had experience in most automotive fields as far as FI goes. Your loss of composure is unnecessary, especially considering the forum's respect towards your knowledge on the matter. A 'comptech' car [note I never claimed comptech was anything good or bad] that blew up for some reason means nothing to me. Stock cars blow up. FI cars with proper tuning blow up. Cars on nitrous use it regularly for 100k miles. Cars on nitrous blow up on their 2nd bottle. Circumstantial cases are irrelavent to me. So are the individual components of the available SC systems when most can be sold and replaced with different ones without huge expenses or trouble.

I congratulate you on your nitrous knowledge and combination of SC and nitrous power, but everything I've said is at worst, subjective, if not common knowledge.

If I really cared to, I could go into extreme detail to figure out exactly how the true costs of the nitrous system vs FI system compare or differ depending on horsepower goals and amount of use. However, I don't have the time, especially after this post. To start, you could multiply the average nitrous use over the period of a week and see how long it takes to reach a significant cost, say 1k. Eventually, the 'cheaper' nitrous kit would be more expensive than the FI kit on that basis alone, but I ignored that for the duration of this topic.

Like I said from the start, nitrous has its benefits as does FI, but on the NSX platform you need to fully evaluate the cost/benefit analysis of going much over a 100 shot on a NSX. You've got the knowledge and went with it, but it isn't for everyone, nor is FI.

 

[BadCarma]

Never said anything to suggest nitrous wasn't a 'decent' modification. Don't waste your time getting defensive, you have no need to. By decent I meant cheaper parts vs highend japenese parts like 2-3k exhausts. It makes absolutely no difference whether your NSX, or any other NSX that is contemplating adding a nitrous system is stock or not regarding the points I made.



I don't fully understand what you are saying but I'll do my best. We can both agree, adding 1000hp by way of nitrous would be detrimental to the NSX engine. 500hp? Probably the same. 300hp? If the engine was completely built, with lower compression, etc., and some very large injectors, it could be safe. On a stock engine? Still detrimental. Where do you draw the line? My logic is from experience. The NSX engine is a fairly high compression n/a setup with 276hp-290hp. The 100 shot will roughly add at least 100bhp, or 33% of the engine's original output. This is the figure I and my collegues typically consider the point in which the additional stress on the engine becomes noteworthy. There is almost no way to determine it scientifically without doing a trial with leakdown and compression tests, if not full blown engine teardowns, to see how much excess wear and tear the nitrous, or any modification, has caused. Bottom line, it would be wise for the individual to do enough research to decide where on his particular setup he should draw the line between 'safe' power and 'potentially hazardous' power. I think that line is around a 100 shot on a stock NSX. It would be very difficult to refute that with any evidence, as saying your particular car did so means very little, but I'm glad for you if that is your case.

Towards the end of this section, I think you were touching on the golden question, how is 100hp from nitrous any different as far as wear and tear and strain on the engine than a SC or turbo charger setup? Well, in fact, it can cause more. The means in which the power is produced is not the same, though similar. This is an excerpt I did not write, so I'll quote it-

"If there isn't enough fuel, and the NO2 is cracked into it's consitiuent parts, you have excess liberated O2. So more than just run lean, the O2 can actually ignite and BURN components of your engine---most notably the pistons. This is why the most sophisticated NO2 systems now utilize WBO2 feedback in the safety loop to disable the NO2 injection of the equation.
Like Jeff points out, first you run lean, and break the pistons, but if you keep in it, and pump that cylinder full of NO2, and it cracks into the separate parts, then that 30%+ Oxygen-Rich Environment will start something burning.
If you are lucky, you break pistons. If you are unlucky, or just plain stoopid, you BURN PARTS...The nature in which N02 produces its power makes it more dangerous than a FI setup, even if both are well coordinated and tuned."

"The real issue then becomes the switching of the NOS on and off. With fuel injectioon it is possible to make a circuit that will switch on and off the NOS based an a mumber of parameters of the engine to make it wery effective for the N/A engine. Switching is KEY in such a system, but I only know of one system that will do that, at least that I would use, and again that is a calculation. Learn you basic BOSCH fuel injection system, then get into the formulas for calculation mixture, Then and ONLY then begin work with NOS. You can always choose to do the seat of the pants setup, but in most cases it will end up in broken pistons."



You could get a less aggressive SC system setup for under 10k, especially if you didn't max out the stock fuel injectors. Well under if you do the work yourself and source some of the parts used that don't 'need' be new'er'. What does 'much less' mean to you? I don't know. I'm not going to break down the parts just to 'prove' to you it can be done. I'm not arguing that nitrous isn't cheaper, I'm saying you could quite possibly have a FI system that you can use for the next 5 or 10 years with the money 'risked' by doing a larger nitrous shot. For some cars, a junkyard turbo setup is more than a replacement engine, the NSX is not one of them.



Where to start.. I won't get into too much detail since much of this is a ramblings entrenched with frustrations about SC vs nitrous 'rivalry', or something like that.

You are going way deeper into the matter as far as the hardware of the two systems [SC vs nitrous] and their than I am concerned with. I'm not defending the SC systems specifically for the NSX. I don't care what tuning these packages have, stand alone is better, aem ems is great, less exact ways adjusting fuel pressure etc. is always going to be the cheaper, less efficient way. As far as our comparisons about 'your' nitrous setup using aem vs the SC package using a cheap FRM being more reliable is hard to evaluate, there is not enough information available to me to even give an educated opinion on that.
I do not own a supercharger on a NSX. I've worked on and setup many SC'd cars, including my past s2k. I've also built my turbo 300zx on an engine stand and am fairly familiar with most tuning softwares. The only cars I regularly tune now are ones with K series engines using K-pro. I do not consider myself even an amature tuner, nor ever claimed to be. I also currently have a suzuki bandit 1200cc with a 40+/- shot I use every once in a while at the drag strip, so I've had experience in most automotive fields as far as FI goes. Your loss of composure is unnecessary, especially considering the forum's respect towards your knowledge on the matter. A 'comptech' car [note I never claimed comptech was anything good or bad] that blew up for some reason means nothing to me. Stock cars blow up. FI cars with proper tuning blow up. Cars on nitrous use it regularly for 100k miles. Cars on nitrous blow up on their 2nd bottle. Circumstantial cases are irrelavent to me. So are the individual components of the available SC systems when most can be sold and replaced with different ones without huge expenses or trouble.

I congratulate you on your nitrous knowledge and combination of SC and nitrous power, but everything I've said is at worst, subjective, if not common knowledge.

If I really cared to, I could go into extreme detail to figure out exactly how the true costs of the nitrous system vs FI system compare or differ depending on horsepower goals and amount of use. However, I don't have the time, especially after this post. To start, you could multiply the average nitrous use over the period of a week and see how long it takes to reach a significant cost, say 1k. Eventually, the 'cheaper' nitrous kit would be more expensive than the FI kit on that basis alone, but I ignored that for the duration of this topic.

Like I said from the start, nitrous has its benefits as does FI, but on the NSX platform you need to fully evaluate the cost/benefit analysis of going much over a 100 shot on a NSX. You've got the knowledge and went with it, but it isn't for everyone, nor is FI.

Here goes a hopeful endeavor

Sahtt, this is your post from early in the thread:

From one standpoint, the cost for decent modifications for the NSX are so expensive, nitrous becomes a great alternative to those that want a stock performing/sounding NSX when they want, and a z06 killer when they need it.

From another standpoint, the replacement cost for an NSX engine is quite high. 75hp is not worth getting overly concerned about, but at 100hp or above puts enough additional stress on the engine to the point you should not be attempting it if you cannot risk replacing the engine. Done right, it can last many years. If done even slightly incorrectly, you will be out 10 grand overnight.

It would be a shame to blow your engine up when you could have had a well set up SC or even turbo kit for much less.

Just do your HW as it seems you are and you'll probably be fine.

NOW I need to as you say make a rambling post coherent and of course we will let our fellow NSX'ERS decide if the conclusions were unwarranted or dead on about your intent not that it matters but hey this has been a very good thread, I am just not sure if your are preaching and teaching what we all ready know and have discussed at length here before and are regurgitating my past posts on N20 and FI in general or had the conclusions already and truly wanted to help us see a different viewpoint for the betterment of all.
I have stated in faq's type posts before that a 100 shot is the max the stock NSX engine can handle for the long haul for many reasons including results of blown motors that have been torn down for rebuild and the report from the well respected west coast tuner as far as cause of failure and his report on what was believed to be n20 related or unrelated.
Keep that thought with you for a moment. As I wish to restate my thoughts on this for we have many new folks here then ever before. it used to be that everyone in this particular forum owned an NSX that was running a S/C,Turbo or n20 or F/I+n20. Much of the discussion was concerning getting their cars tuned proper and the many pitfalls that confronted us as we pushed for the know how to tune our own cars, understand what was being done to our cars by the so called experts and if you think I got my pants in a bunch, hell it was like a full contact cage match in some of our threads. BUT we learned a lot in the process. With that said their was a lull in F/I And N20 for some time after the smoke cleared because of lots of EGO, a slew of blown motors from a certain vendor, a definite battle over which was better a turbo or an S/C and all that comes with that mess including dyno charts, stats, opinions so forth. we were finally getting to a place where we were respectful of each others choice of power adders and the forum returned to a state of learning instead of bashing and badmouthing.
Now we have a giant resurgence of a lot of what I implied as poor judgment about what is posted, and nastiness in general. I don’t know why other then we have a lot of folks getting S/C's from comptech due to a price drop and we are sort of back to square one. I just want you to understand the dynamics of what this forum is about, how it has evolved and I am not saying for better or worse.
With that out of the way I hope you have a feel for what it’s been like and back to the 100 hp matter.
I, we concluded that a 70-75 shot dry was the way to go with n20 and 100 was the max line and if you did go their it should be a wet setup. we decided on a slew of safety devices be installed like FPSS,WOT switch, window switch and myself I wanted even more such as soft rev cut, oil temp safety switch, clutch switch...I think you get the idea. I also refused to install n20 on cars that did not get a new fuel filter, prep their injectors at RC Engineering and get the report showing a passing fuel pattern and balance between injectors for the same A/F from cylinder to cylinder
Because were using basically the same manner to increase fuel flow under boost conditions as comptech used on their 6 psi kit and until just recently has comptech really opened up as far as their 9 psi kit in the NSX market due to the aem management unit finally has a fair amount of tuners that really know it (it was only a matter of time) we explored the same solutions as those tuning C/T S/C's. WE boosted our fuel pumps to 12 volt duty full time, we had walbro 255 hp pumps installed even though it did not flow that much more then the OEM pump it was new and that was worth the cabbage on an older car like my 91.their was a lot of talk about fuel injectors and running injectors that flowed 15 percent above stock to bring down our BFSC numbers. Some calculated that we were running at 90 percent duty cycle on the n20 and comptech 6-psi series. So in a nutshell we had our collective shit together. So we new the score and still engine failures although I have to say it I have yet to smoke a motor running n20 nor has any car I set up or running one of my kits (knock on wood)
NOW with the collective know how of the forum in general laid out for you your post appears along with many others from folks we have never seen post before, not that we are unfriendly because that is not the case. But we do know when we are getting slighted veiled be it or not. You indicate that my reply was defensive and unbecoming I think it was to be expected regarding your posts demeanor.
What you stated in a nut shell was just this: running a 70-75 shot was not a concern (and that was directed at n20 and I concur) but running a 100 could be done if it was executed perfectly tuning wise and your hint at hardware I hope was regarding the safety methodology we use in a broad sense to include the prep of the car in addition to the hardware we add for safety. Then you go on to say in the same breath that it can be done safely that 100 puts to much stress on the motor and well lets here you verbatim.
You wrote:
From another standpoint, the replacement cost for an NSX engine is quite high. 75hp is not worth getting overly concerned about, but at 100hp or above puts enough additional stress on the engine to the point you should not be attempting it if you cannot risk replacing the engine. Done right, it can last many years. If done even slightly incorrectly, you will be out 10 grand overnight.

It would be a shame to blow your engine up when you could have had a well set up SC or even turbo kit for much less.

Just do your HW as it seems you are and you'll probably be fine FINISH

Tell me how this was not a slam on the n20 tuners, you state very definitively that we were wading into dangerous territory at the 100 shot level and it was the LINE IN THE SAND so to speak for exacting that much additional power from the stock motor and we should not wad into the deep end of the tune pool without a willingness to risk our power plants. You then indicate the coup de grate by saying:
It would be a shame to blow your engine up when you could have had a well set up SC or even turbo kit for much less.
You mean a different one S/C or Turbo then blew the motor? Come on we were born at NIGHT but not last night. I don’t know who you are trying to convince but you have your head in a smelly place.
And for the record since the advent of the STAND ALONE alternatives we are able to exact more power safely then before and we are aware of the limitations of the bottom end and the issue with bearings so on and so on.
Troll a different forum. You have no place here; stick with your S2000 buddy’s until you come correct. On a closing note that highly respected west coast tuner indicated directly to me that after examination of the blown motors N20 was not the cause for the demise. We also have some guys on here running way over 100 now on their cars wet setups and report nothing more then nose bleeds. One guy is running 150 but that is on a built motor.
Praise be to AEM and all the guys (RISKING) their motors everyday because it is a hell of a rush! Patronize the kids Forum pertaining to potty training, I am sure you will not cause any flames their and if you do you know how to put them out.
Best Regards David

 

[sahtt]

Here goes a hopeful endeavor

NOW I need to as you say make a rambling post coherent and of course we will let our fellow NSX'ERS decide if the conclusions were unwarranted or dead on about your intent not that it matters but hey this has been a very good thread, I am just not sure if your are preaching and teaching what we all ready know and have discussed at length here before and are regurgitating my past posts on N20 and FI in general or had the conclusions already and truly wanted to help us see a different viewpoint for the betterment of all.
I have stated in faq's type posts before that a 100 shot is the max the stock NSX engine can handle for the long haul for many reasons including results of blown motors that have been torn down for rebuild and the report from the well respected west coast tuner as far as cause of failure and his report on what was believed to be n20 related or unrelated.
Keep that thought with you for a moment. As I wish to restate my thoughts on this for we have many new folks here then ever before. it used to be that everyone in this particular forum owned an NSX that was running a S/C,Turbo or n20 or F/I+n20. Much of the discussion was concerning getting their cars tuned proper and the many pitfalls that confronted us as we pushed for the know how to tune our own cars, understand what was being done to our cars by the so called experts and if you think I got my pants in a bunch, hell it was like a full contact cage match in some of our threads. BUT we learned a lot in the process.

You took what I said and applied it vigorously to past events on nsxprime. That was not my indication. I'm assuming you were assuming when I said SC I was refering directly to some specific product to the NSX. I was not. It was in a general sense. Same applies to the nitrous. It was by chance and past experience alone that I thought 100hp shot was roughly where the NSX engine was still reliable and rougly within safe duty cycles of the stock injectors, your own postings seem to back that up. I simply said someone considering this mod should be able to risk losing the engine. I didn't say specifically that FI such as SC was absolutely fool proof on this engine. Adding an intake or exhaust is not going to give reason to tell someone their engine may detonate. Adding a 100 shot of nitrous is. You can set nitrous up reliably with stand alone tuning hardware/software, which is indeed what I was refering, but even so there is risk. IMO, that is the point when people need to seriously research the nitrous application, lower than that and you can do it relatively safely with "normal" nitrous equipment and engine structure. For the average consumer over the long haul a proven FI setup is going to offer more security for the engine's health. I didn't say nitrous couldn't be reliable as well. If you are a nitrous expert or have access to one, the case may differ.

With that said their was a lull in F/I And N20 for some time after the smoke cleared because of lots of EGO, a slew of blown motors from a certain vendor, a definite battle over which was better a turbo or an S/C and all that comes with that mess including dyno charts, stats, opinions so forth. we were finally getting to a place where we were respectful of each others choice of power adders and the forum returned to a state of learning instead of bashing and badmouthing.

Good news. I had nothing to do with these past battles and did not reference to them.

Now we have a giant resurgence of a lot of what I implied as poor judgment about what is posted, and nastiness in general. I don’t know why other then we have a lot of folks getting S/C's from comptech due to a price drop and we are sort of back to square one. I just want you to understand the dynamics of what this forum is about, how it has evolved and I am not saying for better or worse.
With that out of the way I hope you have a feel for what it’s been like and back to the 100 hp matter.

I understand you had a large, lengthy discussion on the matter in the past. You don't want to waste recources reiterrating it to those that missed it. I did not use 'poor judgement' or 'nastiness', though I'm not claiming you say I am. I'm not here to battle for superchargers against nitrous or another alternative, nor have attempted to do so.

I, we concluded that a 70-75 shot dry was the way to go with n20 and 100 was the max line and if you did go their it should be a wet setup. we decided on a slew of safety devices be installed like FPSS,WOT switch, window switch and myself I wanted even more such as soft rev cut, oil temp safety switch, clutch switch...I think you get the idea. I also refused to install n20 on cars that did not get a new fuel filter, prep their injectors at RC Engineering and get the report showing a passing fuel pattern and balance between injectors for the same A/F from cylinder to cylinder

I think I get the idea as well. Your first couple lines are again very similar to what I expected, not sure where the conflict comes from. These are intelligent and worthwhile efforts you have shown towards your customers that I'm sure have brought about good results; takes a lot of the 'what if' out of the equation to start with.

Because were using basically the same manner to increase fuel flow under boost conditions as comptech used on their 6 psi kit and until just recently has comptech really opened up as far as their 9 psi kit in the NSX market due to the aem management unit finally has a fair amount of tuners that really know it (it was only a matter of time) we explored the same solutions as those tuning C/T S/C's. WE boosted our fuel pumps to 12 volt duty full time, we had walbro 255 hp pumps installed even though it did not flow that much more then the OEM pump it was new and that was worth the cabbage on an older car like my 91.their was a lot of talk about fuel injectors and running injectors that flowed 15 percent above stock to bring down our BFSC numbers. Some calculated that we were running at 90 percent duty cycle on the n20 and comptech 6-psi series. So in a nutshell we had our collective shit together. So we new the score and still engine failures although I have to say it I have yet to smoke a motor running n20 nor has any car I set up or running one of my kits (knock on wood)

I can see why you would be quick to claim your nitrous set up should not be less reliable fuel [which is most of the game] wise and arguably mostly tuning wise vs a similar comptech setup. I would agree. Once again, it seems you are claiming I was saying your nitrous setup was less reliable than its comptech counterpart; this is a relationship you derived from my postings when I was saying it in a general sense. Using the above parameters, it is not surprising your kits in this range are reliable. Going to this extent to setup a proper nitrous system takes a lot of work, but it is good to see it is available to be applied to a NSX.

NOW with the collective know how of the forum in general laid out for you your post appears along with many others from folks we have never seen post before, not that we are unfriendly because that is not the case. But we do know when we are getting slighted veiled be it or not. You indicate that my reply was defensive and unbecoming I think it was to be expected regarding your posts demeanor.

I don't think my posts demeanor was offensive, my aim was to share knowledge that may help a community member. My post may not have 100% accurate information, but I sincerely doubt ANY lengthy and informative post on ANY car forum doesn't have some point that can be argued. I still stand by that nothing I've said is incorrect from my point of view, you can apply it to specific situations and find fault but that is out of my control, and is welcomed if it teaches someone anything.

What you stated in a nut shell was just this: running a 70-75 shot was not a concern (and that was directed at n20 and I concur) but running a 100 could be done if it was executed perfectly tuning wise and your hint at hardware I hope was regarding the safety methodology we use in a broad sense to include the prep of the car in addition to the hardware we add for safety. Then you go on to say in the same breath that it can be done safely that 100 puts to much stress on the motor and well lets here you verbatim.
You wrote:
From another standpoint, the replacement cost for an NSX engine is quite high. 75hp is not worth getting overly concerned about, but at 100hp or above puts enough additional stress on the engine to the point you should not be attempting it if you cannot risk replacing the engine. Done right, it can last many years. If done even slightly incorrectly, you will be out 10 grand overnight.

First sentence is right on. Second sentence is not. I said "puts enough additional stress on the engine to the point you should not be attempting it if you cannot risk replacing the engine". I never said it puts too much, you are infering that. I said there becomes a risk, and by that I meant that is the point you should probably consider the risk you may have engine problems eventually. Bolt-ons are accepted in the general sense to not significantly decrease engine life. Can you tell your customers that a 100 shot has absolutely no more risk than a 75 or less shot, same exact engine and adaquate tuning capabilities? From what you've posted already, it seems that is not the case. They can both be reliable, as you and I have both already said, but the 100 shot level is roughly* the area in which the stock motor is nearing its limits and could more easily be damaged. This is the 'risk' I refered to.

It would be a shame to blow your engine up when you could have had a well set up SC or even turbo kit for much less.

Just do your HW as it seems you are and you'll probably be fine FINISH

Tell me how this was not a slam on the n20 tuners, you state very definitively that we were wading into dangerous territory at the 100 shot level and it was the LINE IN THE SAND so to speak for exacting that much additional power from the stock motor and we should not wad into the deep end of the tune pool without a willingness to risk our power plants. You then indicate the coup de grate by saying:
It would be a shame to blow your engine up when you could have had a well set up SC or even turbo kit for much less.
You mean a different one S/C or Turbo then blew the motor? Come on we were born at NIGHT but not last night. I don’t know who you are trying to convince but you have your head in a smelly place.

It is not a slam on s20 tuners, once again you assume that. Your past here seems to be blurring your understanding of what I am saying. The 100 shot is dangerous territory [to what extent is the undefinable element], but I said right afterwards "but at 100hp or above puts enough additional stress on the engine to the point you should not be attempting it if you cannot risk replacing the engine. Done right, it can last many years." Did you misunderstand or choose to ignore this last part? As per the cuop de grate, you went far deeper into this than the post was intended as well as misinterpreted it. I never said you couldn't have a reliable nitrous setup, infact I said the opposite. The benefits, costs aside, of having a properly setup SC or turbo application vs nitrous setup are numerous and obvious, I'm not going to go there, it's common sense. I never said nitrous was trash and that SC'd or turbo cars never experience problems, which is what it seems to me that you want to think I am trying to say. I briefly said it would be misfortunate if someone unexperienced or simply a person who was too bold on their 'shot' amount destroyed their engine when with the cost of the new/used engine and installation could have had purchased a proven reliable FI setup. That's it, nothing deeper. I am not sure what you are trying to convince me of either, I seem to be saying the same thing repeatedly. I could have just as easily said it would be a shame to spend 10,000 on a turbo kit that would yield the same gains as a 3,000 nitrous kit. Would turbo NSX'ers start defening themselves in the same manner as you? Probably, who knows, but it wouldn't be hard to justify that statement either. There are plusses and minusses to both sides.

And for the record since the advent of the STAND ALONE alternatives we are able to exact more power safely then before and we are aware of the limitations of the bottom end and the issue with bearings so on and so on...

Cheers to more reliable nitrous setups in the future. It is difficult to experiment with these setups when you are not backed like comptech etc. is.

Troll a different forum. You have no place here; stick with your S2000 buddy’s until you come correct. On a closing note that highly respected west coast tuner indicated directly to me that after examination of the blown motors N20 was not the cause for the demise. We also have some guys on here running way over 100 now on their cars wet setups and report nothing more then nose bleeds. One guy is running 150 but that is on a built motor.
Praise be to AEM and all the guys (RISKING) their motors everyday because it is a hell of a rush! Patronize the kids Forum pertaining to potty training, I am sure you will not cause any flames their and if you do you know how to put them out.
Best Regards David

I believe 100+shot is attainable reliably if you know what you are doing, and I bet the 150shot on the built motor will be sound for a good while as well.

On my closing note, if I let one individual to influence my actions so easily, I'd be in a rough place. I think I'll stick around, and have no reason not to. Maybe one day I'll be considered a member instead of a troll to you, If I'm lucky of course, but it makes no difference to me whatsoever. I didn't come here particularly to make 'buddies' but hope I do in the process [more so].

Best regards right back at you, Steve

 

[Sideways]

BadCarma,
Do you have experience setting up N2O with an AEM EMS?

 

[BadCarma]

BadCarma,
Do you have experience setting up N2O with an AEM EMS?

Sideways, yes I do. I read this post early today but was not feeling well enough to stay at the box,another GD hospital stay.I HATE hospitals except when they are saving my life which is becoming all to common But back to the N20 and AEM.I have been thinking about this most of the morning and have a few comments to hopefully help you decide on a setup.

Look,this is one mans opinion and should be taken as such but I read your inquiry in james post also about going this route so this is my take. you are on the west coast which seems to have an ample supply of very good tuners for S/C nad turbo's, motor builds ECT. I dont know personally any N20 tuners out there though they are there you just need to search them out. the Viet tuner that James is going to use sounds tight.it is my intention to contact him by phone when he has time for such matters as I doubt he will know me from Adam and may give me the two minute tuner lecture but I am hoping for more as I rarely meet gentleman that have more then a serious academic understanding of advanced N20 (what you want) but I am going to try and find you a solid tuner. if he knows n20 and has HANDS ON with the AEM on a dyno or some brand of wide band I can give him some 'friendly' advice(delicate) is the word as some of us guys have giant ego's or so I have heard.
I want to relate a story pertaining to direct port on the X.we had a guy here in FLA that went by NOSNSX,you may do a search and turn up his posts but he was running direct port on his X and using a SAFC to control his fuel-A/F and well it ended badly for him with the 150 shot direct I beleive in part due to his choice of controllers(the piggy back SAFC) which unlike the AEM does not allow for tuning the cylinders A/F on a cylinder by cylinder basis.it is really something when you have each adjusted perfectly and independant of each other to attain that golden ratio.
With that out of the way I will also say that if you install an AEM and someone wishes to use you as a test subject your car may run in limp mode or worse perhaps better(forget about the n20,just running) but not like the fine tuned machine you want and deserve! if I had the desire to do it and I did not build my own n20 setups and did not tune at all I think I would take this approach,now I am not saying that guy is you,I am starting at rock bottom as I should anything you can do and know that is better is a bonus,thats all I mean OK?
1. set your goals on two things, what system setup you wish to make the power this includes what type of n20 (with you its direct port) hardware you will use and delivery to the motor (direct port) AND what you will use to control the n20 setup, in your case AEM.
2. OK you decided on the hardware and going diect port,are you going to take the east way out and order a nossle type set up from NOS that requires no drilling of the intake manifold but risk burning a cylinder due to design faults or go old school,with me I would go this way and send my intake to Cris at SOS and have him clean and polish it and provide him with specs to drill and tap it for you,have him chase al the threads and deburr,doubt you would need to tell him that but thats what needs to be done,get the manifold back install and plug the drilled holes with end caps until you settle on an installer.
3.you have picked your installer who knows direct port inside and out and n20 like the back of his hand,HAVE him install the n20 and all the safety devices.
If he knows the AEM and can show you he has experiance (dont be afraid to ask your tuner for his resume so to speak,if it pisses him off start your search again.I must add do THIS before you let him touch your car. NOW this does not mean you cant let him set up the n20.if he is solid with it but just lacks the AEM thats ok.you will then have your car ready to tune with the AEM you have not installed yet and you have n20 installed but are not using it with the stock ECU.if the guy can do it all great,call it a day after he has tuned each cylinder for A/F seperate.how you kick your system with the aem is your business.but tuning time is critical and if you dont do it you will pay the ferryboat captain when your motor goes to hell.
4.you have n20 installed but not active,had your car preped with C&C'ed injectors at RC,installed a new fuel filter,had your fuelpump replaced or validated for spec,a leak down or at least compression check on the motor,installed new n20 plugs that will work with the shot you are going with,had the manifold cleaned and drilled,now its off to get the controller tuned to run the X on and off the juice.the AEM will pull all the timing when it kicks the n20 you can validate this with AEM.if you dont go above 100 shot you should not pull more then 2 degrees some say none ASK your tuner what he thinks.if you goe above 100 dont goe past 125 PLEASE unless you are loaded with throw awy cash for the new motor that will take 6 months to a year to see. yes I know you want mad power but thats not the reason to goe direct port.the reason is safety and the way the n20 is precise in its delivery to each cylinder,think of the power as a bonus but the real reason 'should' be safety.a 100 shot is not so bad and with the AEM you are going to pull more power out of your H/E anyway so by combining the two you get your 125. I WILL try to find you an AEM tuner near you!
I am sure I left alot out and am rambling today but need to laydown as my heart sucks at this moment,add comments SIDEWAYS if you want and I will add more later OK? hope this helped and also did not scare you with all that should be done to your car as it is the most cost effective means of power adding.
James, your kit is done,I just want to test all the electronics before shipping as you saw how many wires and relays are involved not being off the shelf. OK, Linz told me about the email.thanks Bro!
best regards david

 

[Sideways]

Thank you for the reply. Sorry to hear about your hospital time. I've been there too.

The car is currently running with the AEM. It's boosted with a supercharger currently. My tuner (Shawn Church, Church Automotive) is very intelligent with over 10 years experience and will have no trouble tuning it. He has lots of experience with N2O and is highly respected in So.Cal.

I'm working with Nitrous Supply for the hardware and they know as much as possible about N2O systems. Mike Thermos started NOS and then sold it to Holley 6+ years ago. Waddy, Mike, Mike and Mike eat, breath and live N2O.

My problem is what pins to where to attach the N2O devices on the AEM EMS and final design. My tuner does no install work at all, my hardware guys don't know the AEM EMS and I'm a clueless sot.

I'm planning a two stage system eventually with small shot fogger for cooling on the first stage and a larger second stage direct port. For now I will just be doing the fogger and getting the system correct before going forward. Next year after a built bottom end is installed I will install the direct port portion.

Are you comfortable with the solonoid varying the size of the shot, i.e. progressive control? I've heard horror stories but with N2O stories it is frequently the installer or design and not the N2O to blame.

I think the progressive control would be great with the direct port portion and my tuner said the AEM can control that.

We are putting together a complete separate fuel system. One gallon Jaz tank, pump, filter, regulator, and lines since my primary fuel system is approaching capacity. It will also help by allowing very high octane with the N2O.

I want to do this correctly the first time so I am taking my time and picking lots of brains. I'm retired so I have time between those all to frequent Dr visits.

Thanks again.

 

[BadCarma]

Sideways, seems like you are squared away, but to answer a few ?
use beefy solenoids for the second stage and bump up your injectors big time,the AEM will control them when you are not boosted or spraying or both:smile: anyway I have some questions for you:

well first a statement, get the big solenoids and use redundant fuel solenoids on the second stage for a total of 5 thats the normal n20 and fuel one each for the first stage fogger and 1 n20 and 2 fuel for the direct port,the beefy soleniods will handle a prog controller better then the standard 175 shot size.remember this all goes thru the distro block.
if you go with a purge as you should add 2 more solenoids(use the small size) to the mix one for each stage,use seperate bottles and respective warmers for each stage, use a bottle heater that you can cook if you so wish and set them to warm bottle to 1050 psi, I know NOS I mean holly says different but thats my opinion.hooking the n20 up to the aem is monkey science.after you build the lower end wow! any way tell Mike I said I am pissed he sold to Holly as they have changed some critical componants to make them cheaper. DO NOT use NOS bottle warmers on this setup use NX. the size off the solenoids will not give you your shot size you will use a pill at the manifold one for fuel one for n20 and fine tune each cylinder on the dyno with the aem

 

[Sideways]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I'm also planning CF bottles. Any words of wisdom there? The best bottle / price off the internet seems to be the NOS bottle at just over $500 for 12.8 lbs capacity with a high flow valve.

Also, (remote) electric N2O pressure gauge. Any words of wisdom there?
Do you recommend a fuel pressure shut off.

 

[Cameron]

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

sorry fellas i'll write later when i stop laughing...meanwhile im going to watch 2 Fast 2 Furious, or Fast-N-Fake, whichever one is cheesier:wink: ........................:biggrin:

HAHA, "my car topped out at 140, I need NOS.."
"NO way. You drive fast, you got a heavy foot. You'll kill yourself!"
That movie cracks me up every time

But on a serious note, good luck with the NOS and post back on results.

 

[nsxlover]

From my experiences, I would say that nitrous is not harder on the engine, but the drivetrain. With FI, the boost comes on gradually, without a progressive controller, nitrous comes on all at once, thus being harder on axles, and transmission. I was running a 150 shot on top of my FI for awhile, but am going to go down to about a 75 shot. I started with just nitrous about 4 years back, started with a 75 shot, then went to 100 shot, then 125 shot and eventually a 150 shot. The 150 shot made me cringe as I did not have a progressive controller. When Gerry did my engine teardown, he said that there was a bunch of wear on the crank bearings. I would say stay at 100 shot or 75 on stock engine. That is a safe level and could be run for a long time. I got a lot of my tech info from Badcarma (David) when I started on the nitrous kick. He is a wealth of knowledge and will tell you how to set it up safely.

Rob

 

[BadCarma]

When Gerry did my engine teardown, he said that there was a bunch of wear on the crank bearings. I would say stay at 100 shot or 75 on stock engine. That is a safe level and could be run for a long time. I got a lot of my tech info from Badcarma (David) when I started on the nitrous kick. He is a wealth of knowledge and will tell you how to set it up safely.

Rob

I know FOR A FACT that the bearing wear was not due to the n20, dont ask how I know but I know for certain:biggrin: ,on another note your car is just plain sick, YOU are going to let me spray the n20 WHEN you let me drive it... when you come down for a visit next time right bro? pretty please with sugar on top. I will trade you Tila for a 'drive...drive for drive hehe
heres my end of the deal NOW you just have to get T to go along with it.....good luck:

 

[BadCarma]

Sarge, you have mail!

 

[awsomr1]

Dave,

I'm gload to see you are feeling better.

 

[BadCarma]

Dave,

I'm gload to see you are feeling better.

thanks James! BTW PM me your home address AND phone contact info. satan claus is coming to town! hope you been good :biggrin:
Best Regards David
ps remind me to send you pics of my new 240sx's 2 of them,crx getting a prelude swap and other fun toys like a R33 GT-S right hand drive all stock! I am in hog heaven,now if I could just find someone to convert the crx to a 5 speed it would make my decade. oh yeah one of the 240's is getting a silvia s-15 front clip and motor and the other a GT-S r32 oh yeah!!!! WAS going to put in a r32 gt-r but to much work due to the AWD thing

 

[BladesNSX]

First of all, It is great to see BadCarma Back in on the boards!!! Dave, Last year december my engine over revved due to an unlucky incident involving a madman behind a GMC Denali trying to run me off the road in my NSX.

Right now, My NSX engine has been pulled for Port & Polish, Decking the heads, upgraded valves and vavletrain/springs, and adding Headers to my upgraded Intake & Exhaust. ALSO, I got a 75 shot "N O S" kit that is a "Wet" set up. I remember reading in an NSX driver the difference between a Wet and Dry NOS setup. I have completely forgotten the difference. The only thing my memory retained was the claim that using lower Hp numbers of 75 shot or less, was recommended for use with DRY; while, higher Hp numbers above and beyond 75 shot, should be WET.

I have no intention of going higher than the 75 shot. My NSX should be fast enough with the other mods to the engine (not exluding the Type-R Ring & Pinion and JDM short gears I'm adding to the upgraded tranny).

Should I keep the kit as Wet?????? Or should I have the Mech working on my NSX change the Kit to a DRY setup?????????

See knucle head I knew you couldn't resist posting again (telling me about thick skin). By the way I am not an officer (that was a joke) but am an E-5 sarge and I've seen plenty of action I was only the 50. cal gunner doing M.S.R. routes hit 2 times within 3 months saw 23 of my friends get blown up (hit with sharpenal) ........got my purple heart from the President on CNN at FT Lewis I think I saw enough action plus unless you went to Vietnam I definelty............ but I feel stupid saying so and even coming to your level again but
so you know WHAT LETS DROP IT HOOAH :biggrin:
Remember your rule RULE #1 ...come on "sir," you should know this, "take nothing personal troop":tongue:

Yaynsx, let me commend you for your humorous retaliation to the insulting remarks by that other poster. I was suspended from Prime because another member attacked and insulted me on a major level. Simply because he didn't use prophanity he wassn't suspended. I however, used words like "jerk" and "Coward" and was suspended.

What I've learned from this is to simply ingore posters like that. I'm saddened to say that I can spend a bit of time reading through the boards and will come across someone being insulting or offensive towards others for no particular reason.

I too am an officer, I've been an officer for 7 years. You grow a thick skin when you are in uniform. However, when your sitting behind the computer, you feel justified in defending yourself from offensiveness or insults; however, that isn't the case. You handled yourself well. Just remember, for every negative post and poster, there are 10 positive and supportive posters out there.

Just about any kit will allow you to run 100shot, take your picks, Zex, NX, NOS. They all have nsx specific kit. If you absolutely want to run nos, it can be done safely. Bottle warmer/blanket is absolute must, it maintain proper bottle pressure, you will not be able to have optimal performance with it. Remote bottle opener and in cabin bottle pressure gauge is also highly recommended. It is possible that remote bottle opener may not always open bottle fully, by having in cabin bottle pressure gauge, you are able to view the bottle pressure, and check and see if bottle is completely open.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now the ugly part
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IMHO, nitrous is simply not worth it. The bottle only last for a few minutes, refilling a bottle ($40) is more costly than filling up gas tank. You can't enjoy it all the time where a Supercharger or Turbo you let to enjoy the power all the time, you can step on it all the time without worry about $$, and running out of nitrous in matter of seconds. The cost/per second of fun ratio of nitrous will scare you away. Unless you just want to use it occassionally at drag strip, I don't see any point.

My recommendation is that use the $500~$800 Nitruous fund towards a good exhaust, you will get some power increase that you can enjoy all the time, and it is 100times more fun than stock exhaust. 99.999% of times it is also 100time more fun than any nitrous kit, nitrous is only fun during that 0.001% of total driving time.

Exhaust/Intake/Header should give you approximately 25~40rwhp increase. My advice is give Autowave or Jon Martin a call and ask for their opinion on running nitrous on NSX. I guarantee you that they will tell you not to do it. NOS can be done safely but it is not completely without risk, if something goes wrong, this is only expensive motor to replace.

I agree partially with your statement. The Largest downside to nitrous, from what I have been told, and using common sense, is that the bottle will run out requiring it to be refilled for a good amount of money. However, this is how I see it, you can get 50 to 75 extra hp for, what, initially $800 to just over a $1100 for the kit, then about $40 a refill??? Is that about right? As opposed to spending, oh how much is the typical NSX turbo kit now, $15k? I dunno if there is a better and cheaper turbo kit out there. If memory serves, and it usually doesn't, Science Of Speed is offering a decent price on a supercharger at erm, $6k was it. I dunno.

Another advantage to Nos is, you can turn it off, or simply not use it. Where as a supercharger or Turbo, once you get past a certain RPM it will turn on; and, while it's on, it is putting extra stress, no matter how minimal, on your engine.

Dollar for Dollar, I think a decent 75 shot of NOS is a nice mod on the NSX.

A few years ago, my friend (TitaniumVTec) was drag racing a new supercharged Zanardi NSX. He BEAT the Zanardi NSX using his 75 shot NOS boosted NSX that was otherwise stock!!!

From my personal experience, I really like the nitrous. Yea the turbo's are there all the time, but there is nothing like hitting a button and getting thrown back into your seat. A progressive controller makes it a lot safter on your transmission and half shafts. When installed properly with all the saftey options, it is pretty safe. Just remember to change out your platinum plugs for copper 1 or 2 degree colder. You should check your plugs for discoloration after using it the first few times to make sure you are getting the right mixture if you have a wet kit. I would recommend the wet kit because I don't want to rely on the stock injectors. There was a great write-up posted a few years ago describing in depth the concept of nitrous and how it applies to the NSX.

Good advice, I will be sure to do that after my NOS is installed; however, I still don't know if I should keep the Kit as a Wet system or change it to Dry.

Well, I'd like to assure the poster, that if you want to go wrong right off the bat, then put your nitrous activation on a button.

I've seen multiple attacks on your use of the term "nos" in reference to the substance itself, but some of those very attackers refer to the fact of using the juice with push button activation. This, in my opinion, becomes a direct contradiction.

Having owned and installed more nitrous systems than I can recall, NEVER have I installed a system for street driven use that is button activated. This is even more pertinent as far as dry systems are concerned.

The potential for injection during part throttle is much too high with push button. Couple that with the mere potential that on the street your distracted for a moment and continue to spray while off the throttle. All these things are just mere potential for disaster.

The best way to apply any system for "fun" use on the street or weekend track, is to use the WOT microswitch solution or a method of advanced control through an EMS.

Like someone mentioned above, a clear and precise understanding of the system and it's functions is imperative to the long life of your engine with part time nitrous use. I personally have injected 4 cylinder Honda's that I have owned since 1998 with only one failure, and it was directly attributed to the system (I'll get to that). I have dry injected up to a 100 shot on unmodified 1.6 liter sohc vtecs and went through a bottle a weekend for almost two years in some instances with no issues at all.

With that said though, despite my personal CONTINUED preference for NOS systems, it was their solenoid failure which caused my engines demise. It is widely known that NX's solenoids have more reliable seats than do any other manufacturer. This is a good piece of mind if you choose to use some type of controller which will modulate the solenoid like an injector. Using this allows for a ramping effect similar to the feel of a turbo, which can heavily aid in traction.

Power is pointless if you can't put it to the ground.

This is interesting, I always imagined I will push a button for my Nos to activate. Your suggesting that a computer system that progressively adds boost Via Nos be used as opposed to the on/off system of pushing a button?? How much would such a system cost. What engine management system would you recommend? With my engine being ported and polished as well as I/H/E, I know I won't get full potential from my engine without an engine management system.

 

[awsomr1]

thanks James! BTW PM me your home address AND phone contact info. satan claus is coming to town! hope you been good :biggrin:
Best Regards David
ps remind me to send you pics of my new 240sx's 2 of them,crx getting a prelude swap and other fun toys like a R33 GT-S right hand drive all stock! I am in hog heaven,now if I could just find someone to convert the crx to a 5 speed it would make my decade. oh yeah one of the 240's is getting a silvia s-15 front clip and motor and the other a GT-S r32 oh yeah!!!! WAS going to put in a r32 gt-r but to much work due to the AWD thing

Hi Dave,

I had sent you my info thru both email and PM, did you get them??

James Lee

 

[baynsac]

HEy dave aka BADCARMA or anyone else with any nitrous knowledge please shine some light on my project. This is what I have so far. I am having Shad from Driving Ambition do the install and than will find a tuner to tune it. (Autowave, most likely)
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83255

I need help in making sure I am not forgeting anything safetywise. Hopefully BADCARMA or one of you nitrous guru's can help me finally get this on my NSX. I am going to have it dual stage wet nitrous installed direct port.
I am going to take these steps before the install.
1. Compression test and leak down test
2. Dyno- To see if everything checks out and get a starting point. I have DownForceScoop intake/headers/exhaust
3. Change spark plugs to copper plugs BKR7E gapped at .35
4. Validate pump is working at proper flow level.
Raise the OEM fuel pressure regulator to full time 12v and add a second inline fuel pump to be extra safe.
5. Validate if ignition is putting out enough spark ( OEM LEVEL) make sure check each coil pack is in spec.
6. Replace fuel filter
7. Remove the injectors and get them RC' enginering to clean and have them make it peak hold 15% more flow.
8. Dyno- to see if I gained anything or loss.
If everything is fine with the motor, install the full nitrous kit direct port.
MY question is what do I do from here ?? How do I get it tuned ? what system engine management do I use? Is the a custom chip to make it in 2 modes like one for every day driving and one for when on nitrous? I have no knowledge what so ever when it comes to tuning.

 

[baynsac]

I think this was a sucessful Nitrous kit. I am suprised not alot more people go the nitrous route. If they just understand how it works, they would realize its the cheapest hp bang for the buck they can buy and stay 100% reliable. Just get the nitrous kit with all the safetly fall back features like I did and if anything goes wrong it wont spay nitrous. Like if you fuel pressure is to low, or oil pressure, or if you are in first gear, etc etc, You can control it all to not spray nitrous if conditions arent perfect to spray. Thats why you have to get the FJO racing engine managment with it. This engine managment will let you pick how much horse power you want to spray at any rpm at any gear. So you tell your car how much power to make and when and do it Safely just like if you have a turbo or supercharger. Check out my build on the first page of nitrous. I can help you do the same with your nitrous kit or help you put one together. Here is the link to my build
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094

here is one I did i m sellin, but it has the parts list to help you see what it has and how much it would cost you to get those parts.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138711