I can believe people in for sale forum trying to get clean title prices for salvaged
- Thread starter rusky
- Start date
i agree with this and i still prolly wouldnt buy it , but yes seller can ask whatever he wants hopefully they get there asking price
I see this as a good thing.
For owners, It's all good.
These cars are becoming more rare all the time.
an example of how prices can go up for one reason (DEMAND)
A 1966 Mustang today sells for $1000 - $50,000 and higher. over 500,000 1966 Mustangs were built (in one year!), yet, today they are rare. a V8 coupe sold for ~$3500.00 in 1966, and in any reasonable shape at all, an unknown history, is worth `$15k - $20k.
If you are an owner, you should cheer when an NSX goes for a high price. If you are looking to be an owner, it should also make you happy that your future NSX will not depreciate as fast as a new one.
One day there will be very few NSXs available. (even fewer than today) Supply and Demand will dictate the prices.
or as a parts guy says: "I got it, you want it, what's it worth to you"
For owners, It's all good.
These cars are becoming more rare all the time.
an example of how prices can go up for one reason (DEMAND)
A 1966 Mustang today sells for $1000 - $50,000 and higher. over 500,000 1966 Mustangs were built (in one year!), yet, today they are rare. a V8 coupe sold for ~$3500.00 in 1966, and in any reasonable shape at all, an unknown history, is worth `$15k - $20k.
If you are an owner, you should cheer when an NSX goes for a high price. If you are looking to be an owner, it should also make you happy that your future NSX will not depreciate as fast as a new one.
One day there will be very few NSXs available. (even fewer than today) Supply and Demand will dictate the prices.
or as a parts guy says: "I got it, you want it, what's it worth to you"
I didn't even see your ad. I was talking about others but in all honesty unless that obo=-20k I wish you best of luck
- Joined
- 19 March 2008
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- 398
Reallly guys! Salvage is worth 50 percent less my ass I work on these cars all day I've seen some clean title shit run through my shop look worse then all of my salvage cars don't hate. Every car is different! Salvage cars are declared salvage due to value. Example! Your 1995 nsx could get into 5 accidents within 5 years all valued at 10k for repairs now your same nsx gets into a less of an accident but your car is now old so guess what they salvage it so tell me what you would drive a nice fresh painted nsx or one that's all pitted scratched and looks horrible you can drive a car or a paper title you choose I'd rather drive my salvage and pay 20 percent less
Vehicles that are serviced in any manner always are subject to the care, knowledge and skills of the people doing the service. How such service is completed does have a impact on the value of the vehicle being considered.
This applies to any type of service, not just rebuilding of salvage and it is a fact that cannot be denied. It is not erased by one sale of a vehicle but rather by the total market value.
No one is remarking or critiquing the quality of the salvage "build" of any particular car.
There are millions of cars that have been repaired and the vast majority are good, correct repairs but the poor ones are what sticks on people's mind.Who can blame them? Getting burned is no fun.
I have rebuilt salvage vehicles and go in with the understanding of what such a branding has in terms of value. To me it means the car has to be ready for sale at about 50% or less of the retail value. The other scenario is I am planning to keep it for myself or a family member and the project is seen as dead labor recovery and/or cheaper than me buying a similar, non-crashed car at wholesale.
I would like to rebuild a NSX for myself but have not been able to buy a salvage NSX for a price that makes the numbers work. It's always worked out cheaper for me to buy the same car, not crashed, for the same or less.
If it has worked out for someone else, hooray.
This applies to any type of service, not just rebuilding of salvage and it is a fact that cannot be denied. It is not erased by one sale of a vehicle but rather by the total market value.
No one is remarking or critiquing the quality of the salvage "build" of any particular car.
There are millions of cars that have been repaired and the vast majority are good, correct repairs but the poor ones are what sticks on people's mind.Who can blame them? Getting burned is no fun.
I have rebuilt salvage vehicles and go in with the understanding of what such a branding has in terms of value. To me it means the car has to be ready for sale at about 50% or less of the retail value. The other scenario is I am planning to keep it for myself or a family member and the project is seen as dead labor recovery and/or cheaper than me buying a similar, non-crashed car at wholesale.
I would like to rebuild a NSX for myself but have not been able to buy a salvage NSX for a price that makes the numbers work. It's always worked out cheaper for me to buy the same car, not crashed, for the same or less.
If it has worked out for someone else, hooray.
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shawn110975
Suspended
I really upset because no-one laughed at my comment
" my 04 doesnt have pop-up lights " hint: red 05???
guys you have to know what I am talking about...:biggrin:
and like everyone has said I can post my car for 300K not that it would sell for that but shoot you never know.
" my 04 doesnt have pop-up lights " hint: red 05???
guys you have to know what I am talking about...:biggrin:
and like everyone has said I can post my car for 300K not that it would sell for that but shoot you never know.
Look, a salvage title hurts value. Depending upon the documentation it may be a little bit or a lot. I had an old Porsche that was stolen and the asshat that took it blew the motor, stole the radio and wrecked the ignition and the door lock. Aside from that, it was fine. Insurance company totaled the car and I bought it back. I put a new engine in and repaired the other damage. I sold that car for top dollar and then some despite the salvaged title, which I fully disclosed. But I had all of the pictures, reports, etc to go with it. So, for me, if the salvaged car had "history" to accompany it, I might consider a salvage title. If it did not, I would personally pass.
haha. I
when I saw the "retrofitted" NSX posted for the first time. I couldn't believe the seller's asking price
This hits the nail on the head for me. Values in a salvage title are not black and white, but rather subjective because they involve human work. With the factory, we all know the standard, but otherwise it is a mystery. It could be done with outstanding care and detail, or it could be slapped together quickly by someone looking to make a quick buck. Unraveling which one of the two is going to be the key in deciding how much you are willing to pay.
I for one have no problem with people posting an "ideal" price when they are selling as I am always happy to counter with my own ideal price and negotiate from there. So listed pricings never seem to matter, the SALE price is the key
I would rather drive nice clean title car 150% of time then your repaired car that been in major accident (don't give me that bs that insurance salvage cars for dented fender I worked in insurance industry).
shawn110975
Suspended
Ok so why did the insurance company Salvage out that
2005 blk/blk 6-speed, with 24,000 miles that was on IAAI
it had a rear end lower bumper and prob the tips of the frame rails were bent?
that would take about a week to fix why wouldnt the insurance company fix it? I talked to the owners of that 05 they sent the owner a check for a little over 73,000 for the car?
and it sold at auction for 37.8K?
2005 blk/blk 6-speed, with 24,000 miles that was on IAAI
it had a rear end lower bumper and prob the tips of the frame rails were bent?
that would take about a week to fix why wouldnt the insurance company fix it? I talked to the owners of that 05 they sent the owner a check for a little over 73,000 for the car?
and it sold at auction for 37.8K?
Salvage cars are the tits if you know whats up hehe. I bought mine as it stands from a little filipino guy named Ramon who runs a shop in orange county called Niguel Motors for $13k :tongue:. Not too shabby seeing as how he bought it from the insurance company and repaired it after the original owner fender bender'ed it so now I'm the 3rd owner. Seeing as how I don't plan on selling it anywhere in the near future I think it was a great buy, especially seeing as how I'm a poor college student lol. For the price nothing else can compare :smile:
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A car is not given a salvage title based on the severity of the damage. It is given a salvage title based on the cost to repair. So a dented fender vs. whatever else doesn't really apply here.
An NSX is one of the easiest cars to receive a salvage title because of the cost to repair.
My car is salvage. It was a theft recovery with a hit to the driver's side nose. No chassis damage, new headlight, bumper and fender was all that was required. I had the car inspected by a buddy who works with aircraft aluminum who used a laser sighting tool on it and its straight as an arrow. Funny thing was it was panned by everyone locally so i got it for a good deal. The NSX is funny... a lot of people shopping for one won't look at anything with a history. I was the opposite. I wanted one that wasn't pristine as I had planned to modify it. It's a lot harder to do it to a virgin ;p
7 years later and she's always been reliable for me save for a few common maintenance items (clutch slave and master and main relay). For being a 20 year old car that's pretty damn good!
7 years later and she's always been reliable for me save for a few common maintenance items (clutch slave and master and main relay). For being a 20 year old car that's pretty damn good!
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shawn110975
Suspended
there you have it
I would say lots of people have salvaged branded NSX's
but they are just not saying here on Prime.
my 92 is not salvage but my other 2 NSX's are.
I would drive a salvage if I built it. the NSX is so easy to fix IF you have time to do it.
the Insurance companies total them out cuz a fender is 2000 bucks.
a brand new radio is 2500. etc.etc
easy to pay them off and be done. its all about the dollar.
I would say lots of people have salvaged branded NSX's
but they are just not saying here on Prime.
my 92 is not salvage but my other 2 NSX's are.
I would drive a salvage if I built it. the NSX is so easy to fix IF you have time to do it.
the Insurance companies total them out cuz a fender is 2000 bucks.
a brand new radio is 2500. etc.etc
easy to pay them off and be done. its all about the dollar.
which is why the price keeps dropping and the car is still on sale after half a year! :biggrin:
haha. I
Here is an example of 50% value. Thanks for sharing.
A couple of thoughts on salvage cars:
First, Shawn has a point about salvage/totaling the NSX specifically. The high cost of parts and repairs means our cars will be designated as "total loss" by the insurers for damage that on other cars would be repaired. Therefore, there are many salvage title NSXs out there with no frame damage that can be restored to full operating condition without any compromise on saftey. Shawn's fire damage car is a good example. It is mint and I would buy it.
Second, frame damage on the NSX is a very serious problem because of the metallurgic nature of aluminum compared to steel. Steel is a very workable metal and will retain much of its strength even after bending. Heat-tempered aluminum, like that used in the NSX frame rails, is as strong as the equivalent steel. However, due to the alloy and the tempering process, aluminum is much more brittle and cannot be worked as easily. Pulling or bending tempered aluminum can easily break it or weaken it at the seam. It takes a great deal of skill and experience, from my understanding, to work aluminum in a way that will not compromise its strength. Thus, NSXs with bent frames are much more concerning to me. Even assuming you can get it straight again without breaking it, how can you be sure the metal is still strong and will not fold like a beer can when I hit something at 80 mph and kill me? You have to trust your life to a repair like that and pbassjo is one of the few people I would. Plus, he has the integrity to tell me, "Paul, that damage is beyond what I can safely repair. Walk away from the car." As a result, my personal view is that while I will consider fire, theft or cosmetic (crumpled body panels) salvage cars, bent frames are a no-go for me. You of course can make your own risk assessment to see if the money savings is worth the potential personal danger to you.
Third, another complication with repairing the NSX is welding. I have seen a few "cut and paste" cars come through and they look great. But, like the metallurgy issue, welding aluminum properly can be the difference between a strong bond and a weak one that looks cosmetically good, but will kill me in an accident. We know that the NSX uses at least three different types of welds to join the critical structure components. These welds are time-intensive, labor intensive and require very expensive equipment. But, they result in a very strong and safe structure. By contrast, it is easier to join two panels together and put a seam weld on them that will look great. However, the two panels will not be joined and the minute that joint is subjected to an impact, even from hitting a pothole, the seam will pop. Pbassjo has posted here that he has personally seen in his shop salvage cars do just that. Now, instead of a pothole imagine crashing at 80 mph. Bottom line? You're hamburger. Thus, with "cut and paste" cars, I am more cautious. The welds might look nice, but how can I be sure the repairer spent the time and money joining those members the right way? I therefore would consider a welded clip car, but I would need proof the welds were done properly, i.e. pictures, equipment and asking the repairer about the techniques used.
With all of this said, salvage cars do present an opportunity to own this magnificent car at a discount. I considered salvage cars in my NSX search, but ended up with a clean title car as the money was right. This does not mean there aren't deals out there. Shawn's fire car is a great example. It was meticulously repaired using OEM parts and attention to detail just like the factory. I would have no problem buying that car. Macninja does good work too. But, I think the main thing to remember is that when it comes to salvage cars the devil is in the details. You cannot make blanket statements about value, quality or anything else. Each car needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
My two cents.
First, Shawn has a point about salvage/totaling the NSX specifically. The high cost of parts and repairs means our cars will be designated as "total loss" by the insurers for damage that on other cars would be repaired. Therefore, there are many salvage title NSXs out there with no frame damage that can be restored to full operating condition without any compromise on saftey. Shawn's fire damage car is a good example. It is mint and I would buy it.
Second, frame damage on the NSX is a very serious problem because of the metallurgic nature of aluminum compared to steel. Steel is a very workable metal and will retain much of its strength even after bending. Heat-tempered aluminum, like that used in the NSX frame rails, is as strong as the equivalent steel. However, due to the alloy and the tempering process, aluminum is much more brittle and cannot be worked as easily. Pulling or bending tempered aluminum can easily break it or weaken it at the seam. It takes a great deal of skill and experience, from my understanding, to work aluminum in a way that will not compromise its strength. Thus, NSXs with bent frames are much more concerning to me. Even assuming you can get it straight again without breaking it, how can you be sure the metal is still strong and will not fold like a beer can when I hit something at 80 mph and kill me? You have to trust your life to a repair like that and pbassjo is one of the few people I would. Plus, he has the integrity to tell me, "Paul, that damage is beyond what I can safely repair. Walk away from the car." As a result, my personal view is that while I will consider fire, theft or cosmetic (crumpled body panels) salvage cars, bent frames are a no-go for me. You of course can make your own risk assessment to see if the money savings is worth the potential personal danger to you.
Third, another complication with repairing the NSX is welding. I have seen a few "cut and paste" cars come through and they look great. But, like the metallurgy issue, welding aluminum properly can be the difference between a strong bond and a weak one that looks cosmetically good, but will kill me in an accident. We know that the NSX uses at least three different types of welds to join the critical structure components. These welds are time-intensive, labor intensive and require very expensive equipment. But, they result in a very strong and safe structure. By contrast, it is easier to join two panels together and put a seam weld on them that will look great. However, the two panels will not be joined and the minute that joint is subjected to an impact, even from hitting a pothole, the seam will pop. Pbassjo has posted here that he has personally seen in his shop salvage cars do just that. Now, instead of a pothole imagine crashing at 80 mph. Bottom line? You're hamburger. Thus, with "cut and paste" cars, I am more cautious. The welds might look nice, but how can I be sure the repairer spent the time and money joining those members the right way? I therefore would consider a welded clip car, but I would need proof the welds were done properly, i.e. pictures, equipment and asking the repairer about the techniques used.
With all of this said, salvage cars do present an opportunity to own this magnificent car at a discount. I considered salvage cars in my NSX search, but ended up with a clean title car as the money was right. This does not mean there aren't deals out there. Shawn's fire car is a great example. It was meticulously repaired using OEM parts and attention to detail just like the factory. I would have no problem buying that car. Macninja does good work too. But, I think the main thing to remember is that when it comes to salvage cars the devil is in the details. You cannot make blanket statements about value, quality or anything else. Each car needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
My two cents.
How could you, after giving such an extensive explanation on aluminum vs steel construction and the importance of the welding tecnique being the difference between possibly life and death, endorse the integrity of a car that was on FIRE?????? Surely you must understand what heat does to aluminum. While I am not questioning the quality of Shawns work......I have seen his posts and pics.......the car was on FIRE......was anyone standing in the car with a thermometer to see what temps went up to? Do you know what happens to aluminum once it gets super heated and then cools down again? Salvaged cars also can not be insured for collision in some states to my knowlege. I was told when I was looking for a salvage Gallardo that 70% of value is pretty much what I could expect to pay. Bottom line is that there is a proverbial a$% for every seat, and if one waits long enough that a#$ will come around and plop on in.....hell, there is a pristine low mile car on the classified that has been getting bumped since 06' and another since 09'.
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For the record I welded an nsx rail and tried to pull it apart I was trying to see if my welds would hold up,, 10 tons of pressure and my cut and Paste frame rail held strong strong eoungh where it started to rip the factory welds apart before mine! Happy camper if u know what ur doing their should be no problem
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But a bad weld during an accident is not just in the direction normal to your weld seam. You have to consider shear and bending.
I'm not criticizing your welding abilities....I've worked with a lot of very skilled welders that are hesitant about welding alum.
With that said, I wouldn't turn down the opporunity to buy a salvaged car....but if given two cars of similar mileage, condition, and price and one was salvage and the other one was not....I would 100% pick the clean one.
No need for anyone to get offended, we're just chatting about value in our prestigious machines. Me myself being in the business of used car sales their is a rule of dumb that a salvaged car if repaired correctly to the naked eye(meaning customers) then we would pay 30-50% less that it's value. However that rule does not apply to exotics and/or rare vehicles like say.......... THE NSX. I do believe Shawn will get close to his asking price but not the actual 60k, only because the consumer will feel they can wait for a clean title one within that same price point. Just my .02
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