How To Bring NSX-handling Up To Date

[MvM]

Introduction:

I have read many topics where the handling of the NSX is compared to that of other cars.
One of the most recent topics can be found here http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77926 where the handling of the Ferrari F355/F360/F430 is said to be superior to that of the NSX.
Other threads say likewise about the NSX's handling compared to the current Porsche 911 and Porsche Cayman.

(Personal) Base assumptions:

Obviously, the NSX lacks the raw power of the current supercars like the Ferrari F430, the BMW M5, M6 and upcoming M3, the Corvette Z06 or the Lambo's and newer Porsche 911 and 911TT. The NSX cannot compare with these cars in terms of straight-line acceleration.
It is my opinion that the lack of power can be diminished (somewhat) by improving the NSX with things like I/H/E and/or the addition of a supercharger.
This will not render the NSX equal to the cars mentioned but it will make the gap a little smaller.

Similarly, the stock OEM NSX brake setup is not comparable with that of more current sportscars. However, this is also an issue that can be improved upon by using better (2-piece) rotors, better pads and, possible, better calipers.

However, it is my opinion that the basic NSX (coupe) chassis is rigid enough and is still a very well designed and compatible platform for a high performing sportscar.

Question Put:

Basic things like engine power output or brakes can be improved upon by adding or modifying these components as mentioned above.
However, my question is:

What does it take to improve the handling of the NSX to bring it Up To Date to the 2006 level of high-end sports cars.

- Does the NSX need bigger wheels and/or tires and if so, which would be the best option available.
- Does the NSX need swaybars and, again, which would be the best options available.
- Does the NSX need a different suspension and, again which are the best options available? Bilstein, NX R, Tein Flex etc. etc.
- Same question for chassis bars, weight reduction, underbody spoilers, added rear-wings (NSX R?), front spoilers, ducted hoods, different offsets for its wheels, camber-settings, different turn-ratio for the steering wheel and whatever else you can think off.

Many questions therefore with many possible answers. Of course, for track use, it might depend very much on the kind of track the car is going to be used upon.
However, the question is put forward to make the NSX an up to date handling car ON THE ROAD as well as On The Track.

Edit:
Please note that this is a general question and does not have to apply to my specific car.

For the record, mine is a 1994 coupe with TEIN-RA suspension, 17/18 BBS wheels, 215/40/17 front and 265/35/18 S03 tires, underbody spoiler, SOS non-compliance toe-links, a little more camber than standard rear. Type R chassis bars and front swaybar are underway, weight with full fuel tank down to 1360kg/3000 lbs.

 

[DocL]

Bringing the NSX up to date, are you sure you're talking about the right car?? It's not like the NSX handles like a 1977 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, and compared to many current cars on the market, even a 15 year old NSX has superior handling. But, if you want to make some immediate affordable changes, tires and sway bars are a good route to take.

 

[Ski_Banker]

First, what year do you have? Big handling difference between 91s/97s/02s, even with the Targa. The newer ones will handle almost as well as a 355 stock, and acceleration is the same up to 120 or so.

Second, if you're driving at the car's limits on the ROADs - you're driving too fast almost invariably.

As one of our veteran racers, Wei Shin Chin has said - except for brakes, the stock NSX is pretty darn good in terms of handling. Unless you upgrade an entire suspension system (Type S or Type R), you're probably going to deteriorate the handling in some way without realizing it. So don't piecemeal suspension changes. There may be some minor mods, but in general, I'd say leave it alone unless you want max performance on track. That said, the NSX-R chassis bars are nice in reducing the cowl shake when the Targa top is off.

A lot of people will probably disagree with this, and people with much more experience than I have, but still...I think Honda did its homework and suspension mods take a much higher level of knowledge than say, HP mods.

My $.02.

 

[BioBanker]

I now love the way my 02 feels with:

TODA Racing coilovers
NSX R Chassis bars
CT Sways
CT non compliant clamps
SOS harness bar (which stiffens the chassis and has a very positive effect upon cowl in a targa).
upsized wheels.

The car is dramatically more neutral. Much flatter. Stiffer, but not to the point where it is offputting on the road. Turns in well. The rear is just flexy enough to get good traction and the front is just soft enough that I dont get understeer.

 

[goldNSX]

No bigger wheels needed. In fact performance degrades with bigger ones. 17/17 is just fine.

There are some better swaybars out there like the Type R+S.

Concering OEM spring rates the car is more a sportcoupe than a sportscar. Try sth higher/equal than Type-S springs (6 and 5 kg/mm). Stay away of the Eibachs or even softer ones.

NSX R chassis bar highly recommended.

She dramatically improved with Type S springs, revalved Bilsteins and Type R swaybar. Last but not least: It feels even more comfortable to drive THAN STOCK (!). Done right it really transforms the car with no regret.

 

[NSXGMS]

In terms of raw handling the Type-R setup is as competitive as any modern supercar's. This includes Type-R shocks, springs and front sway bar. The Type-R chassis bars are a great improvement.

As far as wheels/tires, go with a nice street/track tire and any of these combos: 16/17, 17/17, 17/18. Keep the width stagger at no more than 40mm. IOW if you're using a 205 front tire do not exceed a 245 rear tire. For a 215 F don't exceed 255 R.

 

[ediddynsx]

I have these http://jic-magic.com/ViewProduct1.aspx?ProductID=33 and dialed in of course.

type-R braces
SOS rear strut bar

Car handles great couldn't be more happier. Just need to get some 17,18s versus my 18,19s cruiser wheels.

also 17,18s is what a lot of people use for track or 17,17s.

With the exception of full track cars like Peter Cunninghams NSX his set up was Stock forged suspension and hubs. GT2 center-lock spindles, BBS 3-piece magnesium center-lock wheels (18x9.5, 18x11), series spec Toyo street tires (245/35-18 and 295/35-18). Bushings replaced with steel spherical bearings. Moton triple-adjustable shock dampers. Eibach springs. RTR adjustable anti-roll bars. Brembo mono-block 4-piston calipers and 14-inch Alcon vented rotors with Hawk brake pads.


Too much suspension stuff and you start to sacrifice ride comfort.

 

[WingZ]

I have these http://jic-magic.com/ViewProduct1.aspx?ProductID=33 and dialed in of course.

type-R braces
SOS rear strut bar

Car handles great couldn't be more happier. Just need to get some 17,18s versus my 18,19s cruiser wheels.

also 17,18s is what a lot of people use for track or 17,17s.

With the exception of full track cars like Peter Cunninghams NSX his set up was Stock forged suspension and hubs. GT2 center-lock spindles, BBS 3-piece magnesium center-lock wheels (18x9.5, 18x11), series spec Toyo street tires (245/35-18 and 295/35-18). Bushings replaced with steel spherical bearings. Moton triple-adjustable shock dampers. Eibach springs. RTR adjustable anti-roll bars. Brembo mono-block 4-piston calipers and 14-inch Alcon vented rotors with Hawk brake pads.


Too much suspension stuff and you start to sacrifice ride comfort.

What's the ride like with the JIC's?

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

This is my suspension mod list, and I love every mod.

1) Suspension
- NSX-R Front Sway Bars
- Zanardi Rear Sway Bars
- NSX-R Front Frame Stabilizer Bar Set
- Dali Racing Rear Chasis Stabilizer Bar
- Daves Non-Compliance Front Clamps
- Bilstein Shocks
- Eibach Springs

I like my setup versus coilovers, cause my 2 requirements are:
1) Progressive Spring Rates & Ride Height Adjustability
2) One setting works for all

I'm not going to fiddle with my setup once its installed. So I figured no need for coil overs when the Bilsteins are still comfy for the road, and offer the height adjustment factor. That with the Eibach's springs work perfect for me.

Add to it 235/30/18s which are slightly smaller then the 215/35/18s people use now, and 315/25/19s out back versus the 275/30/19s people use (suggestion only for 94+ NSXs) and It handles completely differently then before. Primarily because of the NSX-R Fram Stabilizer Bar Set...

Hope that helps. PS I plan to add the Rear Shock Brace soon.

 

[ediddynsx]

What's the ride like with the JIC's?

The ride is awesome, car feels much firmer and planted on the road. Steering feels tighter than stock. On bumpy roads it will feel stiffer.....too bad you don't live in Socal, otherwise I would have you drive it. I got the suspension before SOS even sold them. Jon Martin was the one who introduced me to them. He also has them on his car and basically it is or one of the best before you start hitting Motons. You can always ask Jon Martin about the JIC's. I would get them if I were you and make sure you get them dialed in (corner weighted, balanced and aligned).


Coilovers are great since you can get them dialed to whatever specs you are looking for.
By the way with coilovers you won't need any aftermarket sway bars.


:smile:

 

[da3dalus]

I was reading on another thread in here that Dali Street/Race swaybars and Tein RA's was netting a NSXPrime member like 1.1g's in the corners.

I would suspect that beffiers sways would make a hugely noticeable difference, along with less body roll, a lower center of gravity, and stiffer dampning would yeild a car that would compete with the newer cars much better. I'd probably throw in the NSX-R Chassis bars and the rear strut brace for good measure.

Its certainly the mod plan i am going to be using, but I cannot yet attest to this personally. (Might be using the SOS JIC's instead of Tein RA's).

 

[Auraraptor]

S03s are old rubber now (though I still have it on everything). The new rubber 'to have' is the PS2.

 

[asylum]

Compared to actual Porsche and Ferrari, the NSX is limited by its tire size which is mostly 215 front, 245 to 275 rear. Anyway, on the street, this gives already to much grip. On the track it is another story.

It is the same concerning brakes that are alittle bit less efficient than P and F's one. Not really a problem on streets, different story on track.

For street :
- Type R chassis bar
- dampers/springs or coilovers
- antiroll bar
- i/h/e

For track add :
- practise !
- R tires (for example on stock wheels first) and then go bigger when you get used to the grip (235 fronts even if it could rub at full lock, 265-285 rear)
- brake upgrade (try brake fluid + pads + év rotors before going BBK)
- ....
- ....

 

[jond]

NSX-R setup is probably the best. Just copy it....

Check out the Nurburgring Track Times:
NSX-R does the same laptime as a 500hp Lamborghini, or a 425hp Ferrari 360 Challenge car. Its 1 second slower then a 490hp Ferrari F430 F1

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073

 

[WingZ]

The ride is awesome, car feels much firmer and planted on the road. Steering feels tighter than stock. On bumpy roads it will feel stiffer.....too bad you don't live in Socal, otherwise I would have you drive it. I got the suspension before SOS even sold them. Jon Martin was the one who introduced me to them. He also has them on his car and basically it is or one of the best before you start hitting Motons. You can always ask Jon Martin about the JIC's. I would get them if I were you and make sure you get them dialed in (corner weighted, balanced and aligned).


Coilovers are great since you can get them dialed to whatever specs you are looking for.
By the way with coilovers you won't need any aftermarket sway bars.


:smile:

Thanks Eddie!

Which JIC combo do you have? Also who is Jon Martin?