How much to restore this 95?

[WannaBe4Now]

What is this car worth? Edmunds says it's worth $30-34K in its current condition.

Best guess on how much to restore?

Thanks very much all! Try not not to shed a tear as you read about the condition.


1994 Auto with 108K miles and although it drives fine, I found the following:
- Steering wheel is about 15 degrees off center
- Both front tires have 1.5" of wear on the inside tread.
- Car shifts fine and 0 to...er...a lot was just fine and smooth - the sales associate had nerves of steel
- Sportshift up/down even heavy downshifting worked fine.
- Front/Rear tires don't match so someone went cheap when they replaced them.
- Dealer admitted that it had not had it's 90K service so Timing belt, pumps...etc.
- Pretty sure it has not been repainted because the paint is trashed, chips, no dents, possible overspray on rear tail - maybe accident although Carfax didn't show one.
- Crack in the clear plexiglass cover over the gauges.
- Digits missing from the LED for the SportShifter in the dash next to gauges.
- Engine seemed to idle fine.
- Hatches didn't close perfectly but I think it's wear on the mechanisms not due to accidents - not sure.
- Body seems strait.
- Center console needs to be replaced the plastic 'frame' is peeling.
- Drivers left seat bolster is worn from getting in/out.
- Car went from New Jersey-->Virginia-->California and hit at least 1 auction in between.
- The dealer said I could take to an Acura dealer of my choice - I think it will be the first time it's seen one!

That's all I saw in about 30 minutes!

 

[WannaBe4Now]

Oh yeah, forgot to add that it probably needs new wheels because one of them has a 1/4" chunk taken out of the rim where it meets the tire.

Thanks for you comments! Is this a project-car suicide?

Dave

 

[Jimbo]

Wanna,

Tires/Alignment/Wheels - $1,500

90K Service - $1,500

Decent Paint Job - $5,000

Interior Work - $2,000

And when all this is done you still have a car with 108K miles. I'd say Edmunds is about $10K too high.

-Jim



------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[nsxtasy]

Some of this stuff is easy to price, some of it isn't.

- Steering wheel is about 15 degrees off center

Might just be alignment, but might indicate serious damage. Difficult to estimate.

- Both front tires have 1.5" of wear on the inside tread.

This is normal. See below regarding tire replacement.

- Front/Rear tires don't match so someone went cheap when they replaced them.

New stock tires (Yokohama A022H) are $195 each front, $224 each rear, at the Tire Rack (may be less with the NSX Club discount at Discount Tire Direct). Add around $30/tire for shipping and mounting/balancing.

- Dealer admitted that it had not had it's 90K service so Timing belt, pumps...etc.

The timing belt and water pump runs around $1200. Full 90K service including TB/WP runs around $2000.

- Crack in the clear plexiglass cover over the gauges.

Don't know.

- Digits missing from the LED for the SportShifter in the dash next to gauges.

Don't know.

- Hatches didn't close perfectly but I think it's wear on the mechanisms not due to accidents - not sure.

If they just don't stay up, then the hatch struts need replacement. This is a low-cost item, roughly $150 parts/labor per set ($150 for the engine hatch, plus $150 for the trunk).

- Center console needs to be replaced the plastic 'frame' is peeling.

Don't know.

- Drivers left seat bolster is worn from getting in/out.

Don't know - there are various options, varying costs.

That's all I saw in about 30 minutes!

That would have been enough for me.

forgot to add that it probably needs new wheels because one of them has a 1/4" chunk taken out of the rim where it meets the tire.

A top-notch wheel repair place may be able to repair for around $150-200, otherwise you can buy a new one for $700 from Dali Racing.

Is this a project-car suicide?

Yes. Bottom line on most restoration projects is this: anyone in that business, who knows very well how much it costs to restore a car, is apparently not bidding on it - which means it will probably cost you more to buy it and restore it than it would to buy a well-maintained used one. It may look like a bargain, but you are likely to find out the hard way that it's not - especially when compared with a well-maintained one.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 11 November 2001).]

 

[nsxtasy]

P.S. When Edmunds prices a car, they have five condition categories:

"1. Outstanding: Exceptional mechanical, exterior and interior condition; requires no reconditioning.

2. Clean: Some normal wear but no major mechanical or cosmetic problems; may require limited reconditioning.

3. Average: May have a few mechanical and/or cosmetic problems and may require a considerable amount of reconditioning.

4. Rough: Several mechanical and/or cosmetic problems requiring significant repairs.

5. Damaged: Major mechanical and/or body damage that may render it in non-safe running condition."

I'm not sure how you did your estimate but this car falls somewhere in between categories 4 and 5. And I wonder whether Edmunds's estimates would reflect the high cost of NSX repairs needed to get this car up to snuff.

As Jim implies, even if you go through the expense of restoring it, you will still have a car with 108K miles on it, so it can only be worth so much.

 

[HapaHaole]

Originally posted by WannaBe4Now:

- Pretty sure it has not been repainted because the paint is trashed, chips, no dents, possible overspray on rear tail - maybe accident although Carfax didn't show one.

Hmm if there is overspray then it has been repainted.. Also the one way someone showed me if a car has been repainted is to check the bolts / nuts on the car.. check to see if the paint is still on them.

BTW carFax tells you nothing unless you report it to the DMV which no one does Also if you did a private party pay where the person who caused the accident pays for the damages then that wont show up either. Carfax is only good to see if the car has a salvaged/ non clean title.

------------------
'92 Sebring Silver NSX #181

 

[Jimbo]

Wanna,

There's nothing wrong with buying a project car, if that's what you want and you pay what it's worth.

The problem is that you don't want to buy a car that needs a lot of work and then you wind up paying more than you would otherwise.

Maybe you're looking for a track car and you don't care about the paint and interior quality. This might be a great car for that.

I think we do know that a car like this with that mileage that was reasonably well cared for would probably sell for in the high 20's.

Will all the things that have to be addressed, I would start deducting from that price.

I don't think I'd consider such a car unless it was somewhere in the vicinity of the low 20's.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[nsxtasy]

BTW carFax tells you nothing unless you report it to the DMV which no one does Also if you did a private party pay where the person who caused the accident pays for the damages then that wont show up either. Carfax is only good to see if the car has a salvaged/ non clean title.

True.

Also keep in mind that cars are often transferred from state to state to state in an effort to lose the salvage title and make it look clean.

 

[nsxtasy]

I think we do know that a car like this with that mileage that was reasonably well cared for would probably sell for in the high 20's.

If this car is a '95 -T, then I think a well-maintained one with 108K miles would probably sell for low to mid thirties, just as Edmunds indicates. High twenties is what you would pay for a well-maintained '91-92 coupe with 100K+ miles.

Will all the things that have to be addressed, I would start deducting from that price.

I agree.

I don't think I'd consider such a car unless it was somewhere in the vicinity of the low 20's.

I guess I would deduct more than jimbo from the (higher) selling price to account for (a) all the known work that needs to be done, (b) all the unknown work that probably also needs to be done (frame/unibody straightening?), and (c) the risk of getting a car with a troublesome history. Compare this with (1) a well-maintained '91-92 coupe with 110K miles for high twenties, or (2) a well-maintained '91-92 coupe with 50K miles for low thirties, or (3) a well-maintained '95 -T with 80K miles for around forty, and this car doesn't seem like much of a bargain if you have to pay anything over $20K. Just my O.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 11 November 2001).]

 

[steveny]

1994 Auto with 108K miles and although it drives fine.

How much to restore this 95?

Is it a 94 or a 95?

Check the plastic gage cover for a point of impact by the crack. It is very common to find little nicks or cracks in a car that has been wrecked. This happens when the car impacts and comes to a stop but the items in the car continue to travel until they impact something.

My best advice is to stay away. From all you have stated so far it sounds like the car has been wrecked.

 

[smoore]

car fax will tell salvage history even if it went state to state to get the title washed even though it'll say clean on the title it'll still show on a car fax however the new thing is that people can pay people in higher places to hack into car fax for around $250 and erase the carfax accident report (no comment) it seems to be getting pritty big and surprised car fax has not caught onto it!!!! i personally have built a project car that was wrecked in the front. if your building a race car or wanted to do alot of aftermarket stuff maybe it'll be o.k. to get it. if your wanting to make it back to oem i would move on.
stuart

 

[Jimbo]

"...Actually, high 20's would be a fair price for a well-maintained '91-92 coupe with that mileage..."

Ken,

I'm not that sure. It seems that the prices do fall off after a car hits 100,000 miles.

You see 91-92 cars with 50K-80K miles selling in the high 20's all the time. But I've noticed that those cars with higher mileage in the plus 100K realm sell for less.

It's hard to really tell. The asking price in many of the ads you see are often unrealistic and inflated. The actual sale prices are generally less.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[nsxtasy]

I'm not that sure. It seems that the prices do fall off after a car hits 100,000 miles.

You see 91-92 cars with 50K-80K miles selling in the high 20's all the time. But I've noticed that those cars with higher mileage in the plus 100K realm sell for less.

I agree that higher mileage (100K+) cars sell for less. However, I disagree that you can find well-maintained '91-92 cars with 50-80K miles selling in the high 20's. Cars selling in the 20's tend to have been in accidents and/or been poorly maintained and/or have higher (100K+) mileage and/or have title problems. It's pretty tough to find a nice one selling in the high 20's. Ask Milt how much trouble he's been having looking for a nice one.

My references here are to actual selling price from a dealer or private party, not asking prices and not wholesale/auction prices.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 11 November 2001).]

 

[nsxtasy]

1994 Auto with 108K miles and although it drives fine.

How much to restore this 95?

Is it a 94 or a 95?

Good question. I suspect it's a 95, since it mentions the SportShift which was introduced in '95. And if it's a '95, it's an NSX-T.

 

[WannaBe4Now]

Oops. You're right. It's a 95. I was confusing it with a 94 I've been looking at. That's very interesting about the Carfax cleaning salvage history when moving from State to State - I never heard of that before.

I figure if I could get it for 18-22K it might be worth it but I want it as a daily driver not just for track so it's probably a bad long term idea.

Dave

 

[HapaHaole]

I guess the question is How much is it going to take to make the car up to par.

Well if you do find out the car has been into an accident then it will not be worth it to invest money into it since you will not get it back.

By the sounds of it I would think to repair everything and put it back to where it needs to be is going to be greater than if you found one that has been kept to par and with Lower miles.

------------------
'92 Sebring Silver NSX #181

 

[Lud]

If you want a -T for cheap, this sounds like a car worth investigating further. Most of the problems sound cosmetic. Figure on doing the 90k service immediately; better yet, try to get the seller to pay for it.

If you think there is overspray, definitely have it checked on a laser alignment rack and inspected thoroughly for any kind of impact-related damage. I wouldn't walk away from the car because of a minor accident - it's certainly no garage queen to beging with - but I would not want it to have frame damage.

CarFax does NOT show accidents unless they result in an insurance company declaring the car totalled. You can wreck a car and have it repaired and that will never show up on carfax.