How about free tuition for illegal immigrants?

[tararan]

i dont know why Gray keeps hooking up those illegals, they can't even vote for him.

he's got a good heart but $hit he's using our money. and CA is already in debt because of his dumbass. now we gotta pay triple just to register a freaking car.

i think the idea of illegal immigrant having DL was a good idea. now they can actually get kicked out without going to the longer channel if they get caught doing stupid stuff. and its easier to keep track of em.

just don't give em free education while the rest of our citizens are having troubles with education as well.

this is the land of the free not land of freeloaders

 

[insx]

Why are you against giving education to all people living in the country?

Do you know that US donate hundred millions of dollar to other countries every year?

Some of them are for education fund to those countries.

Why is it wrong to give education to people?

Nations education level are ranked by how many people is uneducated surveyed by world organization.

Are you happy if US has uneducated people of more than 5%?

When US donate Millions of Dollars to help education to other countries why do you object US government to give education to its people in US.

Uneducated people will cause many problems & crime.

How do I know all these? at school, those were all taught up to my graduate school.

 

[NSX_Dreamer]

I suppose that could apply to how the first colonists obeyed and respected the Indian's laws.

Although I don't advocate breaking the law, it seems historically each immigrating group to America broke some laws in order to live here. So in all fairness, how do you start applying a rule that was not established from the start?

I'll grant you that Columbus and the first colonizers probably broke some Indian laws in order to settle here.

What's done is done, we can't very well just pack up and move back to Europe to our ancestral homes now easily.

However, does that mean we should continue not to follow current laws?

Just because our ancestors broke laws, means no laws, current or future will ever be valid?

 

[NSX_Dreamer]

I don't think anyone's against giving education to anyone.

The issue here is giving free education to those who are here illegally, while legal law-abiding citizens will not have the same luxury.

Do you understand that this is what it's all about?

Why are you against giving education to all people living in the country?

Do you know that US donate hundred millions of dollar to other countries every year?

Some of them are for education fund to those countries.

Why is it wrong to give education to people?

Nations education level are ranked by how many people is uneducated surveyed by world organization.

Are you happy if US has uneducated people of more than 5%?

When US donate Millions of Dollars to help education to other countries why do you object US government to give education to its people in US.

Uneducated people will cause many problems & crime.

How do I know all these? at school, those were all taught up to my graduate school.

 

[Ennesssex]

insx, good points.

I personally don't understand why so many people have so much hatred for other minority groups just because they immigrated over here. Some people called the "founding fathers" once said all men are created equal. Especially in a country where education is so prevalent, discrimination based on ethinicity should be minimal at the most.

Some people here on this forum also need to understand the historical significance of our founding fathers. They themselves were immigrants from European countries. So to discredit individuals based on immigrating over the U.S. illegally or legally is absolutely absurd. Just take a moment and reflect in our history.

Hopefully, by educating all people, people will not have these ignorant, offensive views in later generations.

 

[NSX_Dreamer]

"Hatred"?? I'm confused now...

Did someone here show some hatred?

insx, good points.

I personally don't understand why so many people have so much hatred for other minority groups just because they immigrated over here. Some people called the "founding fathers" once said all men are created equal. Especially in a country where education is so prevalent, discrimination based on ethinicity should be minimal at the most.

Some people here on this forum also need to understand the historical significance of our founding fathers. They themselves were immigrants from European countries. So to discredit individuals based on immigrating over the U.S. illegally or legally is absolutely absurd. Just take a moment and reflect in our history.

Hopefully, by educating all people, people will not have these ignorant, offensive views in later generations.

 

[Ennesssex]

What's done is done, we can't very well just pack up and move back to Europe to our ancestral homes now easily.

I agree with your statements that laws must be adherred to but consider this as a counter argument to what you just said.

Whats done is done, we (ethnicities in question) can't very well just pack up and move back to Central America, Asia and etc to our ancestral homes now easily.

How can you justify one group of immigrant's actions without justifying the others?

Just because our ancestors broke laws, means no laws, current or future will ever be valid?

No that is not my point. Yes, the ancestors probably broke some laws and no this does not justify breaking laws now or in the future. But people do need to consider these facts and make laws that at the least reflect some understanding of how this great nation came to be.

Think of the irony, some Indians probably didn't want the settlers to come. But they did. Some Americans probably don't want illegal immigrants to come. But they do and will for years to come.

 

[Ennesssex]

The hatred I'm referring to is:

Am I "racist" against immigrants? DEFINETLY.

If you don't consider that hatred, I don't know what you would consider hatred.

 

[NSX_Dreamer]

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't read that.

The hatred I'm referring to is:



If you don't consider that hatred, I don't know what you would consider hatred.

 

[NSX_Dreamer]

...No that is not my point. Yes, the ancestors probably broke some laws and no this does not justify breaking laws now or in the future. But people do need to consider these facts and make laws that at the least reflect some understanding of how this great nation came to be.

Think of the irony, some Indians probably didn't want the settlers to come. But they did. Some Americans probably don't want illegal immigrants to come. But they do and will for years to come.

I don't think anyone's going to disagree that the illegal immigrants are going to come to America.

What's at issue is that we're actually providing them benefits that legal, tax paying citizens won't get.

Is it wrong to mistreat people, illegal or not? Absolutely!!

But is it right to reward those who do break the law? Absolutely not.

Don't penalize the illegal immigrants beyond what our laws say, but at the same time, don't reward them either, especially at the expense of those who are legal.

 

[(NSX REY)]

Don't get me started!

2 years ago, my car pool partner and I was rear ended while at a stop light by an illegal immigrant, who was traveling at 45+ miles an hour, as the police report read. The two individuals who hit me were out of the car and began to walk away from the scene. I got on my cell phone and called 911 to report the hit and run. As I was talking to the dispatcher giving her descriptions of the two men and where they were heading, my friend got out of my SUV followed the two individuals.
As they went around the block a Police officer was issuing a ticket to someone and was at the same time receiving the dispatchers prompts to the “Hit and Run”. My friend rounded the corner, pointed the two guys out and the Police Officer went into action. Apparently he had them get on the ground cuffed and put them in his cruiser. They came back to the scene of the accident and the officer had me place the driver under citizen’s arrest. I was told he would be deported but to expect him to back within a week or two. (Great System huh?) The passenger who was also an “Illegal” could stay in the country because he did not violate any law. (Go figure?) I guess an “Illegal” must commit a felony in order to be deported? Clearly they had no insurance and the car they were driving could not be traced to any particular individual?
My insurance fixed the SUV for $4,000 plus and I had 2 months of physical therapy. To this day my back is messed up! Am I a little pissed off? You bet’cha!

I’m sure everyone knows how I feel about “Illegals” getting drivers license or free education. By the way…Do you think we could deport Grey Davis for a felony count of being a complete idiot?

 

[Brian2by2]

Re: Don't get me started!

2 years ago, my car pool partner and I was rear ended while at a stop light by an illegal immigrant, who was traveling at 45+ miles an hour, as the police report read. The two individuals who hit me were out of the car and began to walk away from the scene. I got on my cell phone and called 911 to report the hit and run. As I was talking to the dispatcher giving her descriptions of the two men and where they were heading, my friend got out of my SUV followed the two individuals.
As they went around the block a Police officer was issuing a ticket to someone and was at the same time receiving the dispatchers prompts to the “Hit and Run”. My friend rounded the corner, pointed the two guys out and the Police Officer went into action. Apparently he had them get on the ground cuffed and put them in his cruiser. They came back to the scene of the accident and the officer had me place the driver under citizen’s arrest. I was told he would be deported but to expect him to back within a week or two. (Great System huh?) The passenger who was also an “Illegal” could stay in the country because he did not violate any law. (Go figure?) I guess an “Illegal” must commit a felony in order to be deported? Clearly they had no insurance and the car they were driving could not be traced to any particular individual?
My insurance fixed the SUV for $4,000 plus and I had 2 months of physical therapy. To this day my back is messed up! Am I a little pissed off? You bet’cha!

I’m sure everyone knows how I feel about “Illegals” getting drivers license or free education. By the way…Do you think we could deport Grey Davis for a felony count of being a complete idiot?

Well put story that conveys my point very clearly! Our country is too leniant on these people....remember: THEY ARE LAW BREAKERS!! I think its ridiculous that some 3 lane roads are only 45mph zone, but guess what: its the law and I will follow it because it is the law. It is the LAW that once their visa's expire, they're out!! Yet, we cater to their needs, while, as mentioned, many americans are going without those priveleges the illegal's are receiving.

The hatred I'm referring to is:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I "racist" against immigrants? DEFINETLY.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If you don't consider that hatred, I don't know what you would consider hatred.

Ennessexx: If you're going to quote me, then please refer to my other post where I CLEARLY said that I meant ILLEGAL immigrants and not just immigrants as I posted.

I'm sure you don't appreciate thieves, car jackers, threatening drivers, rapists, and so forth being on the street? Well, then why is it ok that some of these illegal immigrants are roaming free, while breaking the law, and receiveing benefits from our government at OUR expense? Damn right I'm racist against that! If you disagree, thats your opinion, but I don't understand how you can convey my racism towards illegal, crime-breaking, fund-sucking immigrants who shouldn't be here in the first place as offensive hatred? I'm not saying I hate spanish-americans, hispanic-americans, italian-americans, asian-americans, african-americans...and I've never said I hate illegal immigrants, i just firmly believe they should not be here...especially when they refuse to make any attempt to live in harmony with US citizens

 

[Brian2by2]

Why are you against giving education to all people living in the country?

Do you know that US donate hundred millions of dollar to other countries every year?

Some of them are for education fund to those countries.

Why is it wrong to give education to people?

Nations education level are ranked by how many people is uneducated surveyed by world organization.

Are you happy if US has uneducated people of more than 5%?

When US donate Millions of Dollars to help education to other countries why do you object US government to give education to its people in US.

Uneducated people will cause many problems & crime.

How do I know all these? at school, those were all taught up to my graduate school.

insx: if we're spending "million's" (which we are) to educate people in other countries, then why do they have to come here to get their education? Why not go to their home country, which we're funding anyways?? Why suck it out of our hard working American families and take it away from those citizens whom are less fortunate? If we're going to allow illegal immigrants to be educated for free here, then we seriously need to consider retracting a large percentage of funds we distribute for education and build more colleges, schools, hire more teachers/professors, and focus more on our national schooling systems rather than worry about the world, because, hey, they'll just come here anyways!

 

[Soichiro]

I agree completely with Brian2by2 on this topic. I have had to jump thru hoops to LEGALLY immigrate to this wonderful country. While friends advised to marry a hooker (j/k) I chose to pay attorneys and do it correctly. After 10 years I'm near the end of the process and I'll be DAMNED if some whiner gets the priviledges I earned just because of their whining. Legality is like pregnancy - there's no middle ground.

 

[Brian2by2]

I agree completely with Brian2by2 on this topic. I have had to jump thru hoops to LEGALLY immigrate to this wonderful country. While friends advised to marry a hooker (j/k) I chose to pay attorneys and do it correctly. After 10 years I'm near the end of the process and I'll be DAMNED if some whiner gets the priviledges I earned just because of their whining. Legality is like pregnancy - there's no middle ground.

Very well put and congratulations on your upcoming citizenship!

Many people often times forget about how unfair it is to those, such as yourself, who do things the tedious legal way. It is incredibly unfair that they receive any more rights and priveleges than yourself and others like you. After all, once again, they're lawbreakers.

 

[tararan]

what i have against giving free education in our country to illegal immigrants is that people outside this country will get the idea that USA embraces and support illegal immigrants. and they may take this as an invitation which will give us more problems with our Immigration system.

i wasn't born in this country. i went through the proper channel and waited a long time. now it's not fair that people that just cut through the line get the same benefits as those people that waited, sacrificed, and spent money just to be here.

 

[Eric5273]

Not that this has much to do with the subject of illegal immigration, but on giving free education to immigrants....

Last month I saw a special on BBC World News about Cuba's medical school program. Apparently their medical schools are some of the most well respected in the entire world. Cuba has the most doctors per capita of any country in the world, and they have over 15,000 doctors working as aid workers in other countries around the world. Anyway....the point to this little story....

Cuba's medical school program has 500 open slots each year dedicated to foreign students. If you are accepted, the entire 4 years of medical school is free (paid for by the Cuban government). Of course, all Cuban medical students get a free education too. Apparently they get tens of thousands of applications from abroad each year.

I found this very interesting that a country that has such bad economic problems still puts money aside to send foreign students to medical school. Apparently there were even some American students who were attending, although very few.

Is it dumb to do this? I don't know.......

It would seem to me that we live in a Global community and anything we can do to better anyone will be to the benefit of everyone in the world.

 

[Ennesssex]

Ennessexx: If you're going to quote me, then please refer to my other post where I CLEARLY said that I meant ILLEGAL immigrants and not just immigrants as I posted.

Sorry for not clearly including illegal immigrants into that statement. But as far as I'm concerned, whether that is included or not makes no difference on the hatred you seem to protray through that statement.

Nsx Rey, sorry to hear about your accident. But if you had been hit by a legal immigrant, would you still be mad that your back hurt? Are you really that mad just because he was a illegal immigrant, or that your back really hurt?

I'm sure you don't appreciate thieves, car jackers, threatening drivers, rapists, and so forth being on the street? Well, then why is it ok that some of these illegal immigrants are roaming free, while breaking the law, and receiveing benefits from our government at OUR expense?

Brian, I don't appreciate theives, car jackers, threatening drivers, rapists, and so forth regardless whether they are illegal or legal. That is my position.

I don't understand how you can convey my racism towards illegal, crime-breaking, fund-sucking immigrants who shouldn't be here in the first place as offensive hatred?

Racisim is based on hatred. All forms of racism, whether it is illegal or legal. Furthermore, once again your generalizing a whole group of individuals as crime-breaking, fund sucking immigrants, etc. Although there might be individuals that fall into this category, some do not. I can guarantee you there are some legal immigrants that are crime-breaking, fund-sucking individuals who shouldn't be here in the first place too.

 

[smoore]

I agree completely with Brian2by2 on this topic. I have had to jump thru hoops to LEGALLY immigrate to this wonderful country. While friends advised to marry a hooker (j/k) I chose to pay attorneys and do it correctly. After 10 years I'm near the end of the process and I'll be DAMNED if some whiner gets the priviledges I earned just because of their whining. Legality is like pregnancy - there's no middle ground.

Same here, although i was illegal for 6 months why waiting on paper work but after 12 years of not being able to get homestead excemptions, financial aide, and a world of other things that you'd be surprized you'd need to be a citizen for i finally have a decent attorney who has helped me out greatly and about to soon be a citizen.

i was born in England, thats right America's biggest buddy in wars etc. yet i had all this trouble. Then the US government grant Cuba's etc. to come here and even set up there own business' kinda frustrates me, it seems as though they should make moving to this country the same for everyone not certain rules for certain countries

 

[Brian2by2]

See, what you fail to understand Ennessexx is that if you are illegal immigrant, whether you deliberatly mean to or not, you are breaking the law...so therefore, yes, all illegal immigrants are law-breakers. Simple as that. If you get caught speeding, you were speeding...doesn't matter if you're a good person or not.

Fund-sucking? When we allow illegal immigrants access to our roadways, and allow them (without knowledge) to drive w/o insurance, thus costing the people they hit, ya, they're fund-sucking. They're driving on our roadways without contributing to them via income tax, etc. Yup, thats fund-sucking.

So bottom line: if you're an illegal immigrant and you're driving and living here still: You are breaking the law by living here and costing us tax-payers money by driving on our roads and, now, attending our public community colleges.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

wow, a very lost post and a lot of replies.
I don't usually get attracted by the policitics, (because it stints, and no matter what you do with it, or opinon, somebody is going to hurt.), I'm not that intelligent to figure what's good or bad to "EVERYONE".

The illegal immigrants doesn't have to be those who "jumped the border". My girlfriend came 7 years ago and attend her college for 6 years, (3 years for a 4 yr University and 3 and half for Community college and ESL.) She was paying 3 times the tuition all these years and she finally got her hard earned degree. Because of the 9-11, (she graduate at that summer), she didn't get her working/study permit until around in Decemeber. (She supposed to stay here and burning money while without any income.) She landed a job in no time, and in June, she is out of status again. Now she's illegal to stay in US. Well, she did filed for a working permit and again, she "supposed" to sit at home and pay tax and burn money while she had absolutely no income, she went on for another 8 months and the immigration office still pending her status... Am I complaining? Yes. But Is that fair? I'd say so, because no matter how much she "paid", she still not belongs to US until the immigration office say so.

I was an immigant here too, (been citizen couple yrs ago.) I too think that sometime people really take it for granted. Immigrants should try harder to be an "American".

To me, the Whole US gov't system is a little corrupted, we talking about debts, Social Security(babyboomers) and unemployments, yet we spend money on these needless thing to people who shouldn't get, (not to mention spending on wars Outside US in name of keeping peace.)

But what do I know, I'm just a Chinese kid driving the nsx.

 

[Brian2by2]

I love your last line..."i'm just a chinese kid driving an NSX" reminds me a friend of mine who has a 911...he's chinese and i could definetly see him saying something like that!

anyways, I'm sorry your girlfriend has had some struggles, but at least she has to feel good knowing that she is making an honest attempt at doing things the proper way.

Yes, we do waste money on alot of things we don't need to be wasting money on. We also waste alot of money on non-citizens when in all actuality its the citizens who need it the most.

The avg income in Broward County, Fla is $21,600...thats average! include the millionaires in that category! And those are all citizens because I believe the information is taken in accordance with voting...? Not 100% on that though.

Pretty sad though that we're throwing money away on outsiders while letting ourselves have very little.

 

[Eric5273]

anyways, I'm sorry your girlfriend has had some struggles, but at least she has to feel good knowing that she is making an honest attempt at doing things the proper way.

I'm sure most illegals try to do things the proper way. As I said in my first post "Illegal immigrants are usually those who came to this country legally but overstayed their visas." These are not people who sneak across the border from Mexico. Most arrive on planes, have all the proper paperwork, but because of all the bureaucracy and the long paperwork trail, they are unable to get their visas renewed in time, so they lapse into the "illegal" category. I have a good friend who fit in this category a few years ago.

The best way to cut down on illegal immigrants, is to have a more efficient INS, not to start kicking more people out of the country.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

The best way to cut down on illegal immigrants, is to have a more efficient INS, not to start kicking more people out of the country.

amen.

We can just prayed for that, and if INS will be anywhere close to efficient, we will all be Christians/ Catholic. (God created another miracle.!!)

 

[Ennesssex]

Brian,

This topic can be discussed indefinietly but the main issue I have with your posts are your over generalization of groups of individuals. Although, some people may break the law and fund-suck and maybe even the majority might. But to say all do is an entirely different matter that I don't believe you can provide any evidence for.

The second issue I have is your "racism" attitude. Although, its your opinion and your entitled to it, it just shows immaturity and lack of knowledge.

Hence because of the reasons set forth, I am inclined to take argumentative positions against yours because out of utter disgust.