Honda's "Refresh Program" for the NSX

[Larry Bastanza]

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...esta-Photo-Gallery?highlight=Fiesta+2010+pics

Been there, done that!!!

This is the link to Bob's Photo album in regard to NSXFiesta2010, among many things we did, we got to visit the factory Refresh Center. TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!!!!

Regards,
LarryB

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This was fun to look thru.

http://www.honda.co.jp/NSX/refresh-plan/index.html
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-archive/nsx/

http://translate.google.com/transla...NSX/refresh-plan/owner/index.html&prev=search

1M yen = around $8,100

If this were offered in the states, I'm sure many here would do some level of refreshing!

OK, so what is available for $8100? When I was there is 2010, it was about $60K for a complete refresh + transportation.....

 

[tof]

For those who don't want to send their cars overseas, I believe Science of Speed is offering a refresh program which can be ordered ala carte. Not a factory program but if any vendor could be trusted to locate the best parts whether NOS, aftermarket, or reproduction, I think it would be the boys in the desert.

 

[Yinzer]

Honda's "Refresh Program" for the NSX

OK, so what is available for $8100? When I was there is 2010, it was about $60K for a complete refresh + transportation.....

I was looking at what appeared to be à la carte options:

I'm glad we have the ALF here, Asimo Larry Freshening. If only you offered "around the foot" options too... footsie massages while you wait would be great.

 

[robbiedawg]

i basically designed my own refresh with ben at daisy auto.i got the idea from honda's program,without knowing its specifics,and sos's.i collected a list of things i wanted to do and got ideas for more things from prime. then ben had some suggestions i hadn't thought of,like cleaning and calibrating the injectors, and served as a helpful reality check by saying some of the things i had thought of weren't needed.the final list was based on his inspection of the car,which honed in on what was needed and what wasn't.the whole process was very satisfying,the car feels like new,and i think it's good for 20 more years if i am.

update-yinzer asked for my list,so here's what was done,other than some regular maintenance like tb/wp/valve adj.my car's only got 44k miles on it,so some stuff's not too worn out-

brakes-sos abs upgrade

mechanical-new lma's,thermostat,repack a/c tensioner,clean/calibrate injectors as mentioned,fuel filter,new clutch master and slave,vtec gaskets,new seals involved in tb/wp,ignition switch,pcv valve,clean throttle body,neg battery cable,reseal oil cooler to block

suspension-zanardi shocks,tein s-tech springs,volk ce-28 n's 17/18

cosmetic-both targa seals (that one hurt because as everyone knows those suckers are expensive,but i figured hell,who knows how long they'll be available),new cracked dash piece under windshield,new door speaker covers

stereo-amps sent to brian k to rebuild boards

misc-fixing some hanging wires left after orig. owner had aftermarket security system installed,which i had removed,it was killing the battery

if i hadn't done it before,definitely a main relay and a hugo window kit

 

[Yinzer]

Thanks Robbie. I've been putting together a list too, that's everything I had and more. I suppose someone really a worry-wart could look into the VVIS butterfly screws but that doesn't sound easy or cheap. My NSX went thru some of the ALF program with the prior owner. Having that list in this thread isn't a bad idea.

I'm hoping to find a high-res visual of this photo, curious what else the Honda program entails, even if just for curiosity.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...Photos/page2?p=1373121&viewfull=1#post1373121

 

[nigel]

The UK has this plan and it's called, "Kaz".

Cheers
nigel

 

[NZNick]

Kaz has been known to go above and beyond.... To improve on the factory spec with extra know-how.

 

[oldnews]

The UK has this plan and it's called, "Kaz".

Cheers
nigel

The US has a plan, it's called "re-build" Seriously, I'm laughing my ass off.

 

[nigel]

Refresh plan

I think we have the same plan and it's called "Larry B".

Cheers
nigel

 

[Yinzer]

Has anyone ever seen the Honda-official NSX mechanical refresh list(s) and if it went into detail to list specific components and even part #'s?

I'm taking my 93 to the spa soon for TB/WP, hoses, and all the standard maintenance schedule items. Like others I'll also do a proactive check & refresh of wear/tear/age-related items applicable for any 30 year old car, in addition to the "NSX infamous" items like checking the VVIS butterfly screws, sending my HVAC CCU to Brian K, etc.

I'll be using a local ex-Honda tech who has his own Honda shop. He's been the exclusive mechanic for my co-worker's husband's brother's early NA1 so he's familiar with NSX's but admits he's not as up to speed on NSX refresh items like our gurus are, and asked if I could assemble a list of things to check/replace. My co-worker's husband specializes in restoring Pantera's (he sells occasionally on BAT) and my co-worker's brother in law is equally knowledgable/picky about others working on his car, so this mechanic seems pre-vetted and has a lot of potential to possibly become another regional guru for those close to Pittsburgh.

There are countless NSX refresh threads on Prime and FB and the UK NSX site which is good and bad; it's easy to get overwhelmed, and none are really sorted out to be friendly to gathering parts and part #'s without taking the time to copy/paste re-organize parts onto my own spreadsheet. It's taken me weeks to weed thru those posts an assemble "my list." Steven Glover's tech tips on the FB owners' group have been really helpful.

Unless I'm missing something, I've never seen an "A la Carte spreadsheet" of smart refresh items, with part #'s. Maybe because this would take a lot of effort to segregate by model years and also require regular maintenance/upkeep due to new learnings and new obsolete parts....

So I was curious if anyone's ever seen the Honda-official NSX mechanical refresh list(s) and if it went into detail to list specific components and even part #'s?

Edit: Funny I just realized my posts in this thread from 2015 also looking into this stuff. 9 years flies by!

 

[docjohn]

you may have to brush off your search ninja skills, but somewhere in the bowels of prime is the picture heavy thread documenting the nsxca group trip to Japan, with a large NE contingent, I know they went to the refresh center..

 

[Honcho]

So I was curious if anyone's ever seen the Honda-official NSX mechanical refresh list(s) and if it went into detail to list specific components and even part #'s?

I've seen them. They do not list by part number, but by component description. Like "Replace timing belt, water pump, tensioner, thermostat," etc. They do not list all the little rubber seals.

Something to consider that I discussed with several people at NSXPO is to pull the heads. For 3.0 NSX engines after 20 years, we've seen more cases of weeping head gaskets, out-of-spec valve guides and leaking valve seals. They're just old. I tend to follow the following cadence for stages:

7 years old (standard interval) = Stage 1 = Heads stay on, "standard" TB/WP service.
10-20 years = Stage 2 = Stage 1 plus heads stay on, fully disassembled, cleaned and all soft parts replaced.
20+ years = Stage 3 = Stage 2 plus remove heads, measure and replace valve guides, replace valve seals, measure and replace valves, hot tank heads, valve job, replace head gaskets, clean and prep deck.
20+ years = Stage 4 = Stage 3 plus remove crank/pistons, new piston rings, hone cylinders, new bearings.

For me, the difference between Stage 3 and 4 is if the car has "low" compression numbers. For me, that's below 200 psi at sea level. A healthy NSX should test around 220-240 psi. Less than that means the rings are starting to wear. New rings and a hone will get you back to 230-240.

The problem is that there are only a few technicians in the world that I would trust to do either a Stage 3 or 4 job and not screw it up.

 

[Yinzer]

7 years old (standard interval) = Stage 1 = Heads stay on, "standard" TB/WP service.
10-20 years = Stage 2 = Stage 1 plus heads stay on, fully disassembled, cleaned and all soft parts replaced.
20+ years = Stage 3 = Stage 2 plus remove heads, measure and replace valve guides, replace valve seals, measure and replace valves, hot tank heads, valve job, replace head gaskets, clean and prep deck.
20+ years = Stage 4 = Stage 3 plus remove crank/pistons, new piston rings, hone cylinders, new bearings.

For me, the difference between Stage 3 and 4 is if the car has "low" compression numbers. For me, that's below 200 psi at sea level. A healthy NSX should test around 220-240 psi. Less than that means the rings are starting to wear. New rings and a hone will get you back to 230-240.

Thanks Honcho! Looks like I was heading for a Stage 2 with aspects of a partial Stage 3... But sounds like I could pursue a full Stage 3 purely based on years.

I did have a compression test on my list of to-do's. If I'm interpreting correctly, then the compression test to judge pursuing stage 3 vs 4 is done before any work begins, right?

If compression results before any work begins is in the sub-220 range, then since a stage 4 sounds like quite the money/time/patience investment, it begs the question of: I'm curious for what type of owner/driver would a Stage 4 be easily justified and valuable, vs. be an optional/extravagant non-essential. Is Stage 3 something all owners should strongly consider, but Stage 4 only for those who push theirs often and want to be assured they're getting every ounce of performance available? I think I recall Source One performing walk-up compression tests at NSXPO 2014 and also think I recall some results being sub-200 and wondering at the time what the practical seat-of-the-pants results would be in a 180 psi car vs 230 psi car, when driving spiritedly around the countryside and never really tracking (which is my driving style).

 

[Honcho]

Thanks Honcho! Looks like I was heading for a Stage 2 with aspects of a partial Stage 3... But sounds like I could pursue a full Stage 3 purely based on years.

I did have a compression test on my list of to-do's. If I'm interpreting correctly, then the compression test to judge pursuing stage 3 vs 4 is done before any work begins, right?

If compression results before any work begins is in the sub-220 range, then since a stage 4 sounds like quite the money/time/patience investment, it begs the question of: I'm curious for what type of owner/driver would a Stage 4 be easily justified and valuable, vs. be an optional/extravagant non-essential. Is Stage 3 something all owners should strongly consider, but Stage 4 only for those who push theirs often and want to be assured they're getting every ounce of performance available? I think I recall Source One performing walk-up compression tests at NSXPO 2014 and also think I recall some results being sub-200 and wondering at the time what the practical seat-of-the-pants results would be in a 180 psi car vs 230 psi car, when driving spiritedly around the countryside and never really tracking (which is my driving style).

Honestly, if you're right at the 220ish level (i.e., 217, 219, 221, 223, 216, Stage 4 probably wouldn't be worth it. There won't be much difference between a 220 engine and a 240 engine. You can definitely feel the difference in power and throttle response between a say 190 psi engine and a 230 psi engine, however. Lower compression means some of the explosive force is blowing past the rings and not imparting force on the piston, which means less engine power. This is one reason why NA1 dynos are all over the place for stock engines. Some cars have really tight, healthy ring seals and dyno at the high end of the range (240-250 whp) and other cars have tired rings and dyno low (220-230).

I wish you were local so you can feel like what Stage 3 engine with good ring seal (tested at around 230 psi pre-refresh) should feel like.

Make sure to warm the car up fully before doing the test so you're getting a real reading based on the engine with a hot engine block and at full operating temp. I drive on the highway for at least 20 minutes before taking the readings.

The best way to think about Stage 4 is that it restores your crankset and block to 0 mile status. However, if you're already at that 220-240 range, you're kinda already at 0 mile status and it's not needed if you know what I mean.

 

[MotorMouth93]

The thing with "stage 4" is it can and probably will snowball.

Often the cylinders will be worn beyond the point of just honing, so you're looking at boring the block and getting new pistons, which is +$1500-2000 right there.

Which means either having the rods bushed or having new pistons fitted to the rods with heat, which most machinists will end up overheating the rods since they've never seen titanium before.

And if you've got a rod with a big end thats out of round you're looking at resizing so might as well get new rod bolts too.

And if the main tunnel bores are out of round which they usually are on high mileage blocks, then looks like its time to line bore/line hone, hope they do it well, and then redo all of the bearing clearance selections since the factory codes no longer apply.

Then on the heads you're looking at new guides at least on the exhaust side but could be both depending on mileage, and possibly new valves depending on mileage.

 

[Yinzer]

10-20 years = Stage 2 = Stage 1 plus heads stay on, fully disassembled, cleaned and all soft parts replaced.
20+ years = Stage 3 = Stage 2 plus remove heads, measure and replace valve guides, replace valve seals, measure and replace valves, hot tank heads, valve job, replace head gaskets, clean and prep deck.

Honcho, do you have a list of p/n's for the stage 2 & 3's?

Thanks, Andy