Honda's brochure. 480 HP, 130k base price
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No true substance? The LFA has already been called one of the all time greats. EVO picked it over the amazing Ferrari 500 GT0. Chris Harris has raved over the car over and over. Top Gear awarded it one of the best engines ever made.
It was the fastest car around the Nurburgring and still is the 2nd fastest after the Viper ACR. The LFA used road tires. From Japan only the GT-R comes close.
Then the LFA DNA has trickled down to cars like the CT and new GS which have also gotten great reviews for their handling.
The press raves about the LFA. You might hate it or not get it but Japan has never come close to producing such a magnificent vehicle.
Really you pick on an exotic car for gas mileage?
:tongue: lmfaoIts funny to see people bash AWD, hybrids and bash American made cars and now that the NSX is going to be an AWD hybrid American made car and its okay now. The NSX hopefully will be great in its own right and maybe push hybrids to new levels of performance. Lexus was first with higher performance hybrids but hasn't done a sports car hybrid. No need to crap on the LFA with completely unjustified reasoning.
2014/2015 is a long time away
Lmao
No true substance? The LFA has already been called one of the all time greats. EVO picked it over the amazing Ferrari 500 GT0. Chris Harris has raved over the car over and over. Top Gear awarded it one of the best engines ever made.
It was the fastest car around the Nurburgring and still is the 2nd fastest after the Viper ACR. The LFA used road tires. From Japan only the GT-R comes close.
Then the LFA DNA has trickled down to cars like the CT and new GS which have also gotten great reviews for their handling.
The press raves about the LFA. You might hate it or not get it but Japan has never come close to producing such a magnificent vehicle.
Really you pick on an exotic car for gas mileage?
Its funny to see people bash AWD, hybrids and bash American made cars and now that the NSX is going to be an AWD hybrid American made car and its okay now. The NSX hopefully will be great in its own right and maybe push hybrids to new levels of performance. Lexus was first with higher performance hybrids but hasn't done a sports car hybrid. No need to crap on the LFA with completely unjustified reasoning.
2014/2015 is a long time away
Congrats, Lexus spent 10 years to be the fastest around an arbitrary track for a limited time. While it is not an easy feat, I am sure there will be plenty of cars to come that will beat that record. Dodge already has and many will again. I (and I bet many others) would pick the 458 before the LFA. It is lighter, more hp & torque (from a smaller engine), mid-engine, looks better, o, and more gas efficient lol. More bang for the buck I would say. Lexus might have Ferrari beat by reliability, but I doubt anyone will ever find out.
I'm sure when the NSX was released, Ferrari and Lamborghini owners thought the same thing about being reliable very much like your notion for exotic cars being fuel efficient. Even Ferrari has expressed concerns for emissions and fuel economy.
Do not get me wrong, the LFA is a good looking car and has a lot of appeal. I just think that Lexus could have done better, especially considering the time and effort they took to develop it. It is definitely not a revolutionary sports car, as they truly did not introduce anything new or refreshing to the game. In fact, they even use archaic tech for some things. When anything that cost a lot of money and extremely limited in numbers, it is going to garner some attention. It does not mean the money spent will equate to equivalent exchange.
Its funny how people loved Nurburgring times until Lexus owned it with the LFA:biggrin: Then the track someone lost its aura of amazingness. Nurburgring times are a good measurement of extreme performance for a car, thus why all car brands seemingly test there. I believe the V-10 NSX concept did a 7:39 or so there. It is not the ONLY measurement but a fine trusted standard. Looking at owners feedback reliability is far from the main reason for purchase. The LFA offers one of the purest, rawest driving experiences around in one of the rarest cars offered. We should commend a brand for sticking to their guns and going against the world like they did with the LFA, no different than the original NSX. Whereas Lexus pushed forward with the LFA and made no excuses, all we got were 3 concepts and excuses and now a seemingly rushed concept from Honda for the 2nd gen. You insult the transmission yet Lexus has been clear why they went with it instead of a DSG, to add feel and to feel engaged and in an event. A DSG is quicker but smoother and lacks feel. There is no right/wrong way (unless we say go with manuals
), each brand explains why they chose what they did. Its revolutionary for being by far the elite supercar exotic from Japan and there is no questions or debate about it. The interior is new and refreshing and for goodness sakes and the V-10 sound has been heralded as sounded so good that should be the sole reason for purchase. The carbon fiber loom is all down in-house and not outsourced like other brands. The car has one of the lowest centers of gravity, the V-10 is the size of a V-8 and weight of a V-6.
Nor am I saying the LFA is the all time best or without flaws and fault. Like all cars it has opportunities. Which is why rumors are Lexus is going to build an ever rarer, more powerful and more expensive LFA II.
All in all this new NSX will not be LFA competition, the LFA shouldn't be mentioned, it will be the halo for the Acura/Honda brand here and abroad and lets hope they get it right.
Asian cultures dun lead and innovate. They follow and copy....
I wish Toyota produced more than a few LFAs so that some of us could at least have a shot at owning one, but as it stands it might as well be a one-off concept to us. The NSX will at least be accessible to upper middle class sports car enthusiasts. I also wish Toyota had made the LFA better looking, then I might be lusting after it instead of Ferraris & Lambos. As of right now, I'm more excited about the upcoming Toyobarus than the LFA.
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Its funny how people loved Nurburgring times until Lexus owned it with the LFA:biggrin: Then the track someone lost its aura of amazingness. Nurburgring times are a good measurement of extreme performance for a car, thus why all car brands seemingly test there. I believe the V-10 NSX concept did a 7:39 or so there. It is not the ONLY measurement but a fine trusted standard. Looking at owners feedback reliability is far from the main reason for purchase. The LFA offers one of the purest, rawest driving experiences around in one of the rarest cars offered. We should commend a brand for sticking to their guns and going against the world like they did with the LFA, no different than the original NSX. Whereas Lexus pushed forward with the LFA and made no excuses, all we got were 3 concepts and excuses and now a seemingly rushed concept from Honda for the 2nd gen. You insult the transmission yet Lexus has been clear why they went with it instead of a DSG, to add feel and to feel engaged and in an event. A DSG is quicker but smoother and lacks feel. There is no right/wrong way (unless we say go with manuals
Its revolutionary for being by far the elite supercar exotic from Japan and there is no questions or debate about it. The interior is new and refreshing and for goodness sakes and the V-10 sound has been heralded as sounded so good that should be the sole reason for purchase. The carbon fiber loom is all down in-house and not outsourced like other brands. The car has one of the lowest centers of gravity, the V-10 is the size of a V-8 and weight of a V-6.
Nor am I saying the LFA is the all time best or without flaws and fault. Like all cars it has opportunities. Which is why rumors are Lexus is going to build an ever rarer, more powerful and more expensive LFA II.
All in all this new NSX will not be LFA competition, the LFA shouldn't be mentioned, it will be the halo for the Acura/Honda brand here and abroad and lets hope they get it right.
First, this is not about whether Toyota or Honda is better. Honda obviously makes better engines, because Toyota has had Yamaha's hand in pretty much every sports car they have made. Honda has been stumbling in previous years, but it seems that they are getting back into their grove. I and many others are glad they axed the V10 long nose idea. Honda realized how silly it was and wanted to return back to the roots. Everyone is mad because it has taken Honda so long to make a successor.
Now, I personally never cared for the Ring times. It's something to brag about, but records are meant to be broken. That track is also proven to favor high hp/ high top speed cars. If you release a car that blows away the market with a new record, the next guy comes and emulates or outdo your tech and matches or beats you. Each market is saturated with similar performing choices. There are going to be a group of cars that perform very similar to each other in each segment. So the choice is then resorted other factors like price, the actual design and test of long term, so ultimately value.
The LFA is an anomaly. It fits in no market since it is so rare and expensive, but its performance puts it in a already defined market class. On paper, none of the specs justify the cost of the car. Toyota finally entered into F1 and as a form celebration, resorted back to the 1980s way of thinking in creating a sports car. Big engine, big HP and exotic materials/craftsmanship with a ridiculous expensive sticker that is unjustified. I bet many of the press are responding to nostalgia. I would not consider this a good thing. Why is it that Japan considered by some inferior to European counterparts because they don't make their cars as expensive and extravagant for no reason, but the actual product they deliver is on par if not better? Sounds like biased press to me. Lexus is garnering praise because they adopted the European way of thinking??? Bats hit the nail right on the head with his joke.
The LFA is a rolling paradox. If it was released 10 years ago, it would have made more sense. Even the Euro competitors are delivering more bang for the buck these days. It is more of an expensive piece of art, than a sports car. Given its rarity and cost, who is actually going to drive the car and put it to use like it was designed to? Probably and literally a handful of owners. Even Ferrari and Lambo owners actually drive and enjoy their cars without the fear of ruining something irreplaceable. I can bet most of the owners who buy it are not even car guys. They read it in a magazine about how expensive and exclusive it is and must have it.
The transmission excuse is silly. They should have offered a 6 speed manual if they wanted engaging, abrupt shifts. Instead they have an archaic slushbox that potentially holds the car's performance back. I bet the 6MT or DCT would have improved it's acceleration numbers, because it obviously will outrun the $80K GTR, but it looks like its struggling because of the transmission.
Yet it still weighs 3500lbs, just a few hundred lbs shy of the massive GTR. The V10 sound is very beautiful, but Porsche did something similar with their Carrera GT and the 458 can be modded to sound like that too.
Nor am I saying the LFA is the all time best or without flaws and fault. Like all cars it has opportunities. Which is why rumors are Lexus is going to build an ever rarer, more powerful and more expensive LFA II.
All in all this new NSX will not be LFA competition, the LFA shouldn't be mentioned, it will be the halo for the Acura/Honda brand here and abroad and lets hope they get it right.
I hope Lexus delivers something more ground breaking for the million dollar price tag. I am interested to see what they do, hopefully something more responsible. I guess they have to do something to recoup their research costs. The LFA is not NSX competition, but it certainly will not be hard to outperform it or outdo it, if Honda or anybody else with some pedigree wanted to. Ferrari already has and they weren't even trying.
So b/c Yamaha is involved, Toyota makes worse engines? Yamaha is a great tuning company. Honda doesn't make 1/2 the engines Toyota has, let alone production V-8s, V-10s and finally is going to have a real hybrid (not an assist). They both make great engines but we all know Honda has become completely stagnant and Toyota continues to press forward. Hopefully the new ED motors will help Honda.
You seem to really confuse your opinion with facts. Its clear you dislike the LFA for a multitude of reasons you have made up in your mind. You are absolutely wrong about the owners not being car guys. If anything they are REAL car guys looking past the "badge" to buy one of the all time greats from Lexus, a brand not known for sport. Its easy to buy a default Lambo or Ferrari, it takes a true car head to buy a LFA or McLaren for example. One of the owners knows a few NSX owners here in Atlanta and is always tracking his car, even flying in Scott Pruett to drive it. You are just making insults at the car and owners with absolutely nothing to back these claims up.
The fact is the LFA is on sale, its here, every expert review is highly complimentary of the car and its done wonders to elevate not just Lexus but all Japanese marques. If Lexus did not debut the LFA and it wasn't a resounding success I highly doubt Honda would be making the NSX.
Lexus pushing forward and debuting the LFA had to inspire Honda to finally commit to a 2nd gen NSX, even if they are not close to being direct competition. All we know about the NSX thus far is it will share its engine/hybrid parts with the RLX, it will be eSHAWD and made in Ohio to debut around 2014/2015.
The CGT sounds great. You can't make a V-8 no matter how glorious sound like a V-10
They sound completely different but maybe my ears need cleaning If Honda ran a 7:30 with a V-10 NSX prototype, I highly doubt one with under 500hp with a V-6 hybrid is going to come close to the LFA's 7:14 or so Ring Time. Apples to Oranges. The NSX seems to be a halo for their hybrid tech and a way to share costs with the RLX.
Ferrari is Ferrari, they don't publish their own times and they insist they have no competiton:biggrin:
The fact is the LFA is the fastest car to lap the "Green Hell" from Japan, the 2nd fastest road car in the world and it was quite the feat having done it on street OEM tires and not factory slicks :smile:
If its not "quite hard" how come only one other car has beat it?
:biggrin:Yamaha is more than a great tuning company. They have done more than just tuning for Toyota. They made engines with and for Toyota's sportier cars for a very long time. Now it seems that Subura is their next partnership. Toyota has big money, but they don't specialize in superior engineering. Let's take a look at their mass produced 3.5 GR V6. It makes good hp and tq, but so does Nissan with their mass produced V6. However, if we were to compare detailed efficiencies, Honda can make the better 3.5 V6. Honda's 3.5 handicapped SOHC V6 engine make comparable power to everyone else's DOHC engines. What do you think they could do if and when they decided to make a DOHC V6 that is rev happy?
I don't hate the LFA. I expect Lexus deliver better specs at a reasonable and smart price. I have already reviewed the exterior and interior and I say nicely done. If it were mid-engine I would like it even better. I am just breaking it down on paper to see how it measures up. I think that it is garnering praise for all the wrong reasons. For all the effort they spent to develop it, they came up with something that is on par with vehicles that are much less expensive to develop or buy. A very inefficient use of 10 years and hundreds of millions of dollars equates to substance? Clearly, we have different definitions of substance. Given the LFA's extremely limited production numbers, they probably will not even do anything to improve upon it later on, like offer a manual tranny if they are truly going for the RAW feeling. I don't know know why they didn't offer the MT cause it's not like it is going to hurt sales. The Ring package is the one that set the record anyways (even though they are only minor improvements), and that version is even more exclusive/expensive...
Wow, you know ONE guy who tracks it. Kudos to him tho, he must be ballin out of control. Again, literally, a handful of people who will track it, versus the other few hundred who will have it in their collection on display. You said yourself owners don't care for reliability. Well gee, if one does not care for reliability, then one obviously does not drive it much to care. You obviously know nothing of exotic ownership. If you don't plan on driving it that much, then how are you a car guy?
Honda is testing the tech with the RLX FIRST, not technically sharing persay. I am sure in 2-3 years the tech will receive improvement and revisions for the halo car so it's not simply component redistribution to save money, even though that is the smart move, but rather derivatives of the same concept.
The CGT sounds great. You can't make a V-8 no matter how glorious sound like a V-10
If Honda ran a 7:30 with a V-10 NSX prototype, I highly doubt one with under 500hp with a V-6 hybrid is going to come close to the LFA's 7:14 or so Ring Time. Apples to Oranges. The NSX seems to be a halo for their hybrid tech and a way to share costs with the RLX.
Ferrari is Ferrari, they don't publish their own times and they insist they have no competiton:biggrin:
The fact is the LFA is the fastest car to lap the "Green Hell" from Japan, the 2nd fastest road car in the world and it was quite the feat having done it on street OEM tires and not factory slicks :smile:
If its not "quite hard" how come only one other car has beat it?
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SDekeCbqWJI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Go to 0:25 - very different tone from stock exhaust. It does not sound exactly the same as the V10, but it sounds just as beautiful.
The 458 did not beat the Ring time at 7:32. I doubt Ferrari actually even tried to tho. The Nurburgring is not the end all of all. A brute like the the Viper beat the $400K Lexus's time for a quarter of its price. What does that say? Lol. There are plenty of tracks across the world and the LFA does not hold records for many of them. It is not the second fastest road car in the world and the Viper is not the first. They managed to massage great numbers on one particularly tricky track because they specifically tuned the car to that track, have drivers that are far more experienced than say average car guy like us and more than likely, it took hundreds of tries. These times have ben overused as marketing pitches and you fell right for it.
I was referring to simple acceleration times, where there are less factors (consistencies like weather or driver error) that affect the results. There are plenty of cars that can out accelerate the LFA. It's not uncommon and generally speaking, not hard to make big HP to get a car to go fast. These unrefined, big block V8s and V10s are prime example. The LFA seems to get its wind in higher speeds. If it had shorter gears and a better final gear ratio, then it would have probably yielded acceleration numbers like the 458, so again, DCT or 6MT. It's not purely the engine holding the car back, it's the transmission. They have the car high geared like it's a low revving big block V8, but this is a 9K rev V10 - short gears make sense. So why not make a simple change and transform the car to be more efficient? Wouldn't a MT offset cost also? Still remarkable that Ferrari's smaller V8 puts out slightly better numbers on the dyno and beats the LFA to the 1/4 mile by over a half a second.
Again, I don't think Honda cares for the Ring times anymore. Ferrari obviously does not. Porsche, Nissan and America (GM&Dodge) are the only other ones who seem to care. I hope that Honda can meet or beat the ~550 hp $400K LFA's acceleration numbers. It wouldn't be hard, the GTR already did this by making some minor adjustments and with less hp at a heavier weight. However, I would not be that much disappointed if Honda could not do it with a sub 500 hp V6 powered car. They already have my vote with the engine in the right place.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you are defending the LFA like a fanboy (I'm not trying to make it personal because you do seem to appreciate cars in general). I just don't think it truly deserves your weak defense because you still can't explain to me why it failed to deliver ground breaking or even marginally superior performance stats. What makes the car so special that it is $400K? Because it garnered focus and nods for being extravagantly done? The first overly expensive Japanese car? SMH. Honda challenged the exotic/super car industry to be more reliable and efficient with new tech back in the 80s/90s. Toyota challenged the industry how? 550hp from a V10 at 115hp/liter is very nice, but it's not ground breaking. 3500lbs from a carbon fiber chassis seems wasteful when all of its competitors except the GTR is already lighter. Again, I questioned $400K for a 550hp V10 car with average 1/4 mile times thanks to the 3500lb carbon fiber reinforced body mated with a poorly selected tranny and you still can't overcome that. How is that responsible planning and development? I'm beginning to get weary from repeating myself lol. I don't think anyone can, because quite simply, Lexus botched on their direction.
Anyways, we are both talking about a car that we will never own. Only a few a hundred will own it for that matter, which is kind of saddening if you think about it. I would like to drive one to see if my thoughts are accurate, but I probably never will so I can only base my conclusions from critical standpoints. It is a great car for what it is, but I would spend my money on better and smarter things. I firmly believe Lexus could have delivered the same car for a lot less money(like find other ways to save weight) so more people can access and enjoy it. There were talks of Lexus simply not releasing it, because they knew that it would not be worth it. It was purely an exercise of learning and research - a very expensive one at that. They really should take what they have learned and incorporate it into a $100K-$150K car that will justify the price in the future. They should be doing that next instead of venturing on the deluded grandeur of the million dollar car status.
The CGT sounds great. You can't make a V-8 no matter how glorious sound like a V-10
If Honda ran a 7:30 with a V-10 NSX prototype, I highly doubt one with under 500hp with a V-6 hybrid is going to come close to the LFA's 7:14 or so Ring Time. Apples to Oranges. The NSX seems to be a halo for their hybrid tech and a way to share costs with the RLX.
Ferrari is Ferrari, they don't publish their own times and they insist they have no competiton:biggrin:
The fact is the LFA is the fastest car to lap the "Green Hell" from Japan, the 2nd fastest road car in the world and it was quite the feat having done it on street OEM tires and not factory slicks :smile:
If its not "quite hard" how come only one other car has beat it?
Vipers sound like crap. Theres more to an exhaust note than the number of cylinders.
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