Honda Style magazine's take on ASC

[WingZ]

I love this guy. It's like playing "pin the tail on the donkey."

By the way -- what impact have you had, personally, on the implosion of the Acura brand in the the U.S.? Did you help design any of the plebian transportation vessels Acura has brought to market recently? Just curious.

Anyway, the irony is that Audi is actually positioned now (for its R8 release) similarly to how Acura was in 1991. Audi has momentum, as Acura did then. With the help of not having designers like you, Audi won't succumb to future mediocracy in the way that Acura has.

You've got to be friggin kidding me. You talk all this trash about the ASC concept and keep praising that stretched TT with no aZZ. The R8 truely bores me and I don't see it as any more of a comparison to the NSX than the ASC ,but at least the ASC is a Honda.

Audi is in no way in the same position as Acura was with the NSX as Audi owns an exotic sportscar company with which people will always reference. Acura didn't have that all they had were people like you constantly saying what they couldn't do and what people wouldn't buy and a dream. The R8 will not and read carefully NOT CHANGE THE WAY SPORTSCARS ARE BUILT OR DESIGNED THE WAY THE NSX DID. You may like the R8 but it is in no way the next NSX ( nor is the ASC ,but it at least comes from the same company ) anyway more so is the Cayman the new NSX. If you like the R8 buy it end of story.

 

[|Adeel]

Read a article on the March edition of the British "CAR" magazine.

They felt the same way we do. "NSX-supercar successor a FR car? Are you kidding us?" kind of reactions.

Glad we're not alone.

 

[95ttht]

To answer your question, yes and no. In Japan, S2k starts with less features. Also the Licensing is much higher than the US. That said, if you buy a similarly equipped S2k, you will pay more.

AFAIK, the S2K doesn't have any options in Japan or the USA, except for the fact they have the additional TypeV model that we don't get with the variable steering gears. I've been in S2Ks on both sides of the ocean, and never noticed any difference in features...Licensing is a non-issue, it is not factored into MRSPs. I would be shocked if the US release version ASC was less expensive than the JDM one.

Either way, priced at $130K-ish it's going to be a hell of a tough sell. The most expensive Honda car product now is ~$55K for a fully loaded Acura RL. And those aren't exactly flying off the showroom floor. I still can't see a significant target market for this car.

IMHO, Honda's options are to go back to the drawing board, or face an embarassing sales flop by bringing this version of the ASC car to market. As other have stated repeatedly, that segment of the market (front engine luxo-sport) is already getting crowded with many other better looking cars from more prestigious brands, being sold for less money.

 

[WingZ]

IMHO, Honda's options are to go back to the drawing board, or face an embarassing sales flop by bringing this version of the ASC car to market. As other have stated repeatedly, that segment of the market (front engine luxo-sport) is already getting crowded with many other better looking cars from more prestigious brands, being sold for less money.

See this is what makes me think that it's going to be priced for much less. Honda always undercuts the competitons pricing. Are they maybe aiming for the Aston Martin DB9? ,but that wouldn't make any sense either. Also why would Honda have a pricing poll on the ASC concept? Each time Honda entered a new market they always priced them much less than their competitors. The NSX and S2000 were much cheaper than their european competitors while being better performers. Plus Honda knows that Lexus is only going for about a $100k and Hondas never cost more then Lexus right? My sincere hope is that Honda wants everyone to think it will be expensive and then shock the crap out of everyone by pricing it well below $100k.

 

[NSXBat]

Honda made a mistake when they showed the HSC....but not giving us a price-range?


HSC was a sexy body design...but 300hp sounded like a flop....but not at $49k


I think it is a mistake to release 2 of the 3 varibles and watch peoples reactions.

ASSC is good car at sub $70k price range with 500hp...but a huge flop at anything over $90k

 

[WingZ]

Honda made a mistake when they showed the HSC....but not giving us a price-range?


HSC was a sexy body design...but 300hp sounded like a flop....but not at $49k


I think it is a mistake to release 2 of the 3 varibles and watch peoples reactions.

ASSC is good car at sub $70k price range with 500hp...but a huge flop at anything over $90k

That's fine with me as the NSX is/was a sales flop and I think it's great. In reference to the HSC pricing the Cayman S hasn't been considered a sales flop and it's less than 300hp and people seem to love it. But I guess anything to be negative about the ASCC:wink:

 

[Silver F16]

The Acura survey had shown a price range for the ASCC. The mid-range price on the survey is $75K. Granted this range is based on the question of how much you expect to pay. This is not a $100K car.

 

[2slow2speed]

Audi is in no way in the same position as Acura was with the NSX as Audi owns an exotic sportscar company with which people will always reference. Acura didn't have that all they had were people like you constantly saying what they couldn't do and what people wouldn't buy and a dream. The R8 will not and read carefully NOT CHANGE THE WAY SPORTSCARS ARE BUILT OR DESIGNED THE WAY THE NSX DID. You may like the R8 but it is in no way the next NSX ( nor is the ASC ,but it at least comes from the same company ) anyway more so is the Cayman the new NSX. If you like the R8 buy it end of story.

Audi is much more of a leader than a follower at this point in time, look at their lineup. Audi has been a manufacturer that has offered 4WD/Quattro system for their vehicles for a *very long time", they have been a true "Luxury Brand" even before the VW Group bought out Buggatti/Lamborghini/Bentley which would be considered as Ultra Exotic/Exotic/Ultra Luxury

You can go today to an Audi dealership and get an A3/A4/A6/A8/Q7 an A4Avant A6Avant s4/s4Avant/s6/s8, RS4 all of them available as 4WD vehicles.

Who came out with a Dual Clutch system that provides the convenience of an automatic tranny with the performance of a manual? (DSG or R-tronic). Who has been using Turbo's on their 4 cylinder engines for a long time?

Who used to have inline-5 engines on their vehicles and had Honda copy them in the Japanesse market with the inline-5 on the Vigor?

What did Acura decide to do recently for all of their future vehicles? Make them SH-AWD and make a big fuzz about it and use that to distinguish itself from other car makers. They decided to give the RDX a turbocharged 4 cylinder, hmm... kind of sounds familiar too.

So who is the one doing the leading and who is doing the following?

BTW: The biggest difference between the R8 and the ASC is that you can go *now* to an Audi dealership and buy one (if you are willing to pay the markups) for the ASC you will probably have to wait 2~3 years from now to get one. (that is assuming that it has not been cancelled..)

And finally just in case you are not aware of it, the S2K and the NSX are the awesome vehicles that they are because during the design/development they had a lead engineer who was really good at what he was doing and understood what made a sports car a sports car. Mr Uehara is *not* involved in the development of the ASC, and that is a *huge* unknown.

Just listening to the California Acura design folks during the TOV inteview for the Detroit show made me cringe, those folks looked completely clueless as to what makes a sports car a sports car.

 

[NSXBat]

That's fine with me as the NSX is/was a sales flop and I think it's great.

Sales? maybe... a bump in HP could have helped.

But the ....NSX was not a flop. It put Honda/Acura on the front page of every car magazine for 3 years (right next to Ferrari). You can't put a price tag on that kind of exposure.

The ASC will be a Lexus copy, 2 years too late. How does that bring anyone new over to Acura?

Honda has moved from leader of the pack to lagger

 

[S-TO-8K]

Interesting read and thanks for posting.

I do believe however that their supposed pricing of $130K is much too high and only serves to support hype that it will perform with and/or out perform cars of that price range and up. I would hope that in reality it won't sell for more than $90k.
Eventhough I'm a big Honda fan, personally I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the next '08 Nissan GT-R. I'll have mine in black please :smile:

RE: S2000 replacement there has been much speculation in recent times. I have participated in 2 market studies sponsored and attended by Honda over the last 2 years and can say that if they listen to what the majority of current S2000 owners would want the next gen. to be, it certainly won't be less than the current one performance wise.

 

[WingZ]

Sales? maybe... a bump in HP could have helped.

But the ....NSX was not a flop. It put Honda/Acura on the front page of every car magazine for 3 years (right next to Ferrari). You can't put a price tag on that kind of exposure.

The ASC will be a Lexus copy, 2 years too late. How does that bring anyone new over to Acura?

Honda has moved from leader of the pack to lagger

Sure it was everyone says it was a sales flop and numbers prove it. They were already on the cover of magazines for starting Acura to begin with. The Legend was considered a great car for it's time as was the Integra. Both cars regulary made it onto ten best lists. So I don't know why you think it took the NSX for them to get recognition.

You don't know what it will be your just speculating. Theirs nothing in Acura or Hondas line up that is a clone of anything in the Lexus/Toyota line up.

Honda is still known as a leader. Just because your not happy with their products doesn't mean everyone else isn't. To make more sales they went mainstream with a lot of things that's what business do. They want to make money. They have to to survive. Are they the same company from the 80's or 90's no , but no company is. They've all made changes to survive. Is Honda losing some of it's enthusiast base? possibly , but to grow they need more than enthusiasts.

What does Toyota/Lexus offer enthusiasts????? They stopped making sportscars years ago. At least Honda was still building some!

 

[neurobound]

Sure it was everyone says it was a sales flop and numbers prove it.

Only thing that would prove it would be to have Honda declare it as a flop - not a bunch of internet rumors and magazine speculation. I don't believe they have or ever will. Keeping the car on the showroom floor for 15 years says quite the contrary.

They were already on the cover of magazines for starting Acura to begin with. The Legend was considered a great car for it's time as was the Integra. Both cars regulary made it onto ten best lists. So I don't know why you think it took the NSX for them to get recognition.

Lets stay focused here...NSX next to Ferrari.... Legend shown next to? Sure, someone might see a Legend next to a BMW, but that isn't nearly as potent as an NSX paired up with its exotic peers.

You don't know what it will be your just speculating. Theirs nothing in Acura or Hondas line up that is a clone of anything in the Lexus/Toyota line up.

I don't think the ASSC is a clone either, but man it sure does resemble that new Lexus Concept a bit much (similar proportions). And the front-end hood resemblance to a Vette is a bit odd.

Honda is still known as a leader. Just because your not happy with their products doesn't mean everyone else isn't. To make more sales they went mainstream with a lot of things that's what business do. They want to make money. They have to to survive. Are they the same company from the 80's or 90's no , but no company is. They've all made changes to survive. Is Honda losing some of it's enthusiast base? possibly , but to grow they need more than enthusiasts.

I'm not really sure what they're a leader in anymore though. A leader in fuel economy? I mean, what's going on with the Acura brand? Almost the entire fleet is sedans - and it soon may be 100% sedans if the rumors are true that the RSX is being dropped.

I believe the general perception of Acura is not too hot right now - that poor perception isn't because of honda's focus on what you and others feel was a sales dud (NSX) but because for the past decade they've been declawing their line of cars (removal of NSX - with nothing to replace it, going from Integra Type-R to a bulky, high-stanced RSX), focusing more on producing overly conservative car shells filled with gadgets, rather than driving machines.

Ohh well. Will say tuned till at least the Tokyo Auto Show this fall to see what the real story is.

 

[Ponyboy]

Just listening to the California Acura design folks during the TOV inteview for the Detroit show made me cringe, those folks looked completely clueless as to what makes a sports car a sports car.

Ken is secretly in love with the ASC and having a difficult time coming to terms with his obvious affection for an inantimate object. :wink:

C'mon buddy! The Dark Side isn't so bad. :wink:

 

[WingZ]

Only thing that would prove it would be to have Honda declare it as a flop - not a bunch of internet rumors and magazine speculation. I don't believe they have or ever will. Keeping the car on the showroom floor for 15 years says quite the contrary.

Your kidding right? The NSX although an exotic was never a limited production car they would make as many as they could sell. Honda was making more than they could sell anyone who bought new was getting a massive discount. Internet rumour..that's funny...LOL

Lets stay focused here...NSX next to Ferrari.... Legend shown next to? Sure, someone might see a Legend next to a BMW, but that isn't nearly as potent as an NSX paired up with its exotic peers.

My response was focused if you read the previous post NSXbat was implying that the NSX ,put Acura on the map and it didn't. It was extremely important for Acura to be compared with MB and BMW. At 37 yrs old I remember full well when it was ridiculous to compare a Japanese car to an American car. It use to be high praise for the Z to be compared to the Corvette. Acura put Japanese luxury cars on the map as no one thought the Japanese capable and that it was outright crazy that anyone would pay $40k for a Japanese car! You and NSXbat need to go back and read old magazines. Neither of you seem to know a lot about the perception Japanese cars had back in the 70's and early 80's.

I don't think the ASSC is a clone either, but man it sure does resemble that new Lexus Concept a bit much (similar proportions). And the front-end hood resemblance to a Vette is a bit odd.

It's pretty non descript at this point ,but hey they both need space to house V10's upfront so yeah at conception it will look blandly similar.

I'm not really sure what they're a leader in anymore though. A leader in fuel economy? I mean, what's going on with the Acura brand? Almost the entire fleet is sedans - and it soon may be 100% sedans if the rumors are true that the RSX is being dropped.

I believe the general perception of Acura is not too hot right now - that poor perception isn't because of honda's focus on what you and others feel was a sales dud (NSX) but because for the past decade they've been declawing their line of cars (removal of NSX - with nothing to replace it, going from Integra Type-R to a bulky, high-stanced RSX), focusing more on producing overly conservative car shells filled with gadgets, rather than driving machines.

I agree and only own one Acura. I prefer rear wheel drive vehicles so the NSX was my only option with them. All the other family cars are Bimmers. Although I would've purchased the RL over our current 330 ,but it was the wifes call and her daily driver so hey you pick your battles. We have a X3 as well and I don't think the RDX would steal me away from it. Although the RDX is more Innovative with the sweet turbo and SH AWD. The TSX is a nice replacement for the Integra that most overlook and I don't know why it's much cheaper than it's competiton and drives like a foor door S2000. Funny most magazines still say that Honda is making driving machines. That's why the Accord always beats the Camry in comparisons it's great driving feel. People only bash Acura because their cars don't make enough HP or at least as much as their competitors ,but HP has never been Honda's goal they make cars that you can have fun with get good gas mileage all while driving it near and sometimes above it's limits. Less HP is really a lot of fun as you have to work the car to make it perform. That's alway's been Honda's goal. Minimum car Maximum driver. Why you guys don't know that after all these years is really astounding

Ohh well. Will say tuned till at least the Tokyo Auto Show this fall to see what the real story is.

Cool at least your being open minded. Why people here forget that the Skyline and LF-A concepts didn't really impress anybody is astounding. They look at cars further along and say "Acura has lost it's way" or other stupid stuff. I grew into a Honda fan the NSX was never the be all end all of exotic cars to me and I actually didn't want one when they first came out . Wasn't a Honda fan at the time ,but now I seriously give Honda the benefit of the doubt ,because I haven't driven anything by them that hasn't excited me. Oh yeah I CAN'T WAIT TILL THE TOKYO AUTOSHOW!

 

[2slow2speed]

Ken is secretly in love with the ASC and having a difficult time coming to terms with his obvious affection for an inantimate object. :wink:

C'mon buddy! The Dark Side isn't so bad. :wink:

LOL... Shawn, how did you know?? hehe..

So far it's been close to 4 months of being without the NSX and no shakes so far, but you never know, maybe in an act of delusion/insanity I might end up seriously dreaming about owning an ASC

 

[95ttht]

I'm not really sure what they're a leader in anymore though. A leader in fuel economy? I mean, what's going on with the Acura brand? Almost the entire fleet is sedans - and it soon may be 100% sedans if the rumors are true that the RSX is being dropped.

The RSX is dropped, it's not a rumor, they aren't sold anymore. Check out www.acura.com for the most boring uninspiring lineup of any Japanese manufacturer.

Go to their site, then click on the "all models" selection at the top. That's it. 5 vehicles, all 4 doors. Small/medium/large sedan that all look like virtually identical, typically bland Japanese passengers cars. Then you have a fine choice of small or large SUV.

 

[WingZ]

The RSX is dropped, it's not a rumor, they aren't sold anymore. Check out www.acura.com for the most boring uninspiring lineup of any Japanese manufacturer.

Go to their site, then click on the "all models" selection at the top. That's it. 5 vehicles, all 4 doors. Small/medium/large sedan that all look like virtually identical, typically bland Japanese passengers cars. Then you have a fine choice of small or large SUV.

Uh what's so exciting about Lexus? Big cushy gadgets they're like friggin Buicks with oviod shapes..LoL

 

[Ski_Banker]

Why would you have an M6 or an Aston versus the ASC - *IF* - you are not a brand snob? If the assumption above is true, it is only logical to think that one will judge the purchasing option based on its merit.

Not getting the ASC b/c it's a "Honda" makes just as much sense as the mentality of some consumers 10 years ago not buying a Lexus b/c it's not a Mercedes. Only to find out that, given the price point, they are much more reliable, just as luxurious, and unless you really don't care about money or are a brand snob, a wiser choice. Of course, Lexus doesn't offer 500+ HP AMG Beasts and thus easily takes that crowd....


If the ASC is just as good as the M6/Aston, and God forbid, better and WITH SH-AWD, then it's a a contendor and it will compete! If it's fat/slow/unorigional/dumb & too expensive (or cheap, like the Vette, relative to performance that is..), then yeah, it will not do so well...

I think if ASC is as good or better, it will get bought. Period.

Let me clarify on my definition of a brand snob. Someone that buys a car with little or no regard to the underlying product, relative to cheaper alternatives. I can think of one FFFFF brand that attracts quite a few of those types.

However, I'm not saying I don't VALUE the brand at all. I'm not ashamed to say that I would be more excited to hop into an Aston Martin over an equivalent Acura, any day of the week.

And my point is, all of these $120k alternatives perform exceptionally well. Could Honda beat them? Sure. Am I going to notice the performance difference versus an M6? Very unlikely. An extra 50hp would be 10% - about the same as adding headers to your NSX - nothing to write home about. So then it comes down to reliability, which, while not great, the M6 won't be F-car like. And for a $120k car, a few extra dollars of maintenance won't be much of a consideration.

If Honda blows the performance out of the water with something Veyron-like, than I would reconsider. But, in a 500hp, somewhat heavy GT, I don't expect performance to be much different from an M6.

 

[95ttht]

Uh what's so exciting about Lexus? Big cushy gadgets they're like friggin Buicks with oviod shapes..LoL

I'm not a Lexus fan, but that's what they are known for being. A Japanese Cadillac. But at least they have a 2 door convertible in the SC, a peppy and sporty looking IS350 in 6 speed, and some interesting Hybrid SUV/Luxo cars. And the LF-A looks like it may actually be in production before Acura actually shows us a picture of this elusive 500hp V-10 production engine we've been hearing about for almost 6 years now. Talk about vapourware. Is there even a drawing of this motor out there?

Not to mention Lexus has 8 models + 2 hybrids compared to Acuras current 5.

The 350Z/G35/GTR are the slickest production cars coming from the other side of the pond right now, IMHO. Too bad, cause I'd much rather see a high end sportscar made by Honda/Toyota...

 

[WingZ]

I'm not a Lexus fan, but that's what they are known for being. A Japanese Cadillac. But at least they have a 2 door convertible in the SC, a peppy and sporty looking IS350 in 6 speed, and some interesting Hybrid SUV/Luxo cars. And the LF-A looks like it may actually be in production before Acura actually shows us a picture of this elusive 500hp V-10 production engine we've been hearing about for almost 6 years now. Talk about vapourware. Is there even a drawing of this motor out there?

Not to mention Lexus has 8 models + 2 hybrids compared to Acuras current 5.

The 350Z/G35/GTR are the slickest production cars coming from the other side of the pond right now, IMHO. Too bad, cause I'd much rather see a high end sportscar made by Honda/Toyota...

As an S2000 owner I take offense to that:wink: That bloated pig ( 350Z )is nowhere near the sportscar the S2000 is. GTR hasn't hit yet and it's guaranteed to be heavy. Heck it looks overweight in pictures:biggrin: Hondas are almost always lighter than Toyota or Nissan. I'm hope that trend continues with the ASC ( or whatever it's called )

 

[MoreRPMs]

...Funny most magazines still say that Honda is making driving machines. That's why the Accord always beats the Camry in comparisons it's great driving feel. People only bash Acura because their cars don't make enough HP or at least as much as their competitors ,but HP has never been Honda's goal they make cars that you can have fun with get good gas mileage all while driving it near and sometimes above it's limits. Less HP is really a lot of fun as you have to work the car to make it perform. That's alway's been Honda's goal. Minimum car Maximum driver.

The Camry has got to be a major snore if a mundane Accord is known as a "driver's car" compared to it. It's quite comical to even associate that term with a car that's known for being a great reliable commuter car. Nothing more, nothing less. For all the models of Accord I've driven ('87 LXi, '95 EX, '03 EX) none of them ever struck me as enthusiast-oriented. The S2000 on the other hand....

And that less hp argument is a very weak excuse if you ask me. Honda's two sportscars could've both used a significant hike in power, and neither's balance shouldn't have been affected by the bump.

 

[BD]

AFAIK, the S2K doesn't have any options in Japan or the USA, except for the fact they have the additional TypeV model that we don't get with the variable steering gears. I've been in S2Ks on both sides of the ocean, and never noticed any difference in features...Licensing is a non-issue, it is not factored into MRSPs. I would be shocked if the US release version ASC was less expensive than the JDM one.

Either way, priced at $130K-ish it's going to be a hell of a tough sell. The most expensive Honda car product now is ~$55K for a fully loaded Acura RL. And those aren't exactly flying off the showroom floor. I still can't see a significant target market for this car.

IMHO, Honda's options are to go back to the drawing board, or face an embarassing sales flop by bringing this version of the ASC car to market. As other have stated repeatedly, that segment of the market (front engine luxo-sport) is already getting crowded with many other better looking cars from more prestigious brands, being sold for less money.

Dude, you are wrong on the pricing.

http://www.honda.co.jp/S2000/pricerange/index.html

Base S2k Yen 378 to fully optioned Yen 432.6
Type V range from 399 to 453.6.

http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCESS/automobiles/s2000/


NSX T in Japan: Yen 1076.985 (same as the US Pricing) to 1150.485, which is about 8 grand over the US pricing.

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/nsx/2005/pricerange/index.html

Type S and Type R, basically using less luxury parts but more aggresive performance parts, range from 1087.485 to 1355.235.

All of the cars listed above can go up accordingly with additional luxury options.

The taxation/Licensing is also greater. That is why a fully equipped NA2 NSX-R can still demand over $140k USD.


I don't think Honda expect to sell that many ASC, as I have indicated. But it is a halo car, and I'm sure they will sell more of those in Japan and new markets such as China and Middle East. The market today is much greater than 17 years ago. As for the US market, the car will probably sell well the first two years, and will eventually dry up after the 3rd year. Again, as I have indicated, if this car can run with SLR at 1/3 the price, some one will buy it.

I'm not a Lexus fan, but that's what they are known for being. A Japanese Cadillac. But at least they have a 2 door convertible in the SC, a peppy and sporty looking IS350 in 6 speed, and some interesting Hybrid SUV/Luxo cars. And the LF-A looks like it may actually be in production before Acura actually shows us a picture of this elusive 500hp V-10 production engine we've been hearing about for almost 6 years now. Talk about vapourware. Is there even a drawing of this motor out there?

Not to mention Lexus has 8 models + 2 hybrids compared to Acuras current 5.

The 350Z/G35/GTR are the slickest production cars coming from the other side of the pond right now, IMHO. Too bad, cause I'd much rather see a high end sportscar made by Honda/Toyota...

The 350Z/G35/GTR will always be considered as barging based sports car. They sell shit loads of 350z and G35 because you get a lot for the money. Most buyer will get those cars because it has a decent engine but over look the cheap interior. By reading the publications, many will argue that those cars can run with NSX, but by driving the NSX after those cars, you will know it is not the case - Considering the fact that NSX is now 17 years old.

You can always make an argument about what will and will not, until ASC actually hit the show room, you wouldn't know the sales result. If you have a crystal ball, please tell me what lottery numbers to buy!!!

Let me clarify on my definition of a brand snob. Someone that buys a car with little or no regard to the underlying product, relative to cheaper alternatives. I can think of one FFFFF brand that attracts quite a few of those types.

However, I'm not saying I don't VALUE the brand at all. I'm not ashamed to say that I would be more excited to hop into an Aston Martin over an equivalent Acura, any day of the week.

And my point is, all of these $120k alternatives perform exceptionally well. Could Honda beat them? Sure. Am I going to notice the performance difference versus an M6? Very unlikely. An extra 50hp would be 10% - about the same as adding headers to your NSX - nothing to write home about. So then it comes down to reliability, which, while not great, the M6 won't be F-car like. And for a $120k car, a few extra dollars of maintenance won't be much of a consideration.

If Honda blows the performance out of the water with something Veyron-like, than I would reconsider. But, in a 500hp, somewhat heavy GT, I don't expect performance to be much different from an M6.

According to your logic, every one should buy a Z06 and be happy. That how I interpret it. Why buy a NSX? Why buy a SL55, or 997 Turbo?

Some how today, performance not only has to mix in with safety and luxury, but reliability and maintanance potential.

If I'm in a market for a $120 grand sports car, I really don't have much of a choice. I can't get a 997 Turbo, Bently Coupe, SL55, or even a baby Austin Martin because they are at least 10 to 50 grand higher. I can go for a GT3, but what is the point? I builtd a NSX based the JDM R, which is not far from the GT3 and the car will be far more reliable.

I'm speaking for my self for this one; let's say I squeezed all my pennies and buy a 997 Turbo, a baby Austin, I may not be able to afford the long term maintanance on those cars. But if I do that with ASC, most likely, I will be able to.

So again, Honda is going after a market that don't really exist right now, may be a good thing.

 

[WingZ]

The Camry has got to be a major snore if a mundane Accord is known as a "driver's car" compared to it. It's quite comical to even associate that term with a car that's known for being a great reliable commuter car. Nothing more, nothing less. For all the models of Accord I've driven ('87 LXi, '95 EX, '03 EX) none of them ever struck me as enthusiast-oriented. The S2000 on the other hand....

And that less hp argument is a very weak excuse if you ask me. Honda's two sportscars could've both used a significant hike in power, and neither's balance shouldn't have been affected by the bump.

Hmmm I've never owned an Accord ,but just because the styling is bland doesn't mean the driving experience has to be boring. The last Accord I drove was pretty fun and even though it was a little roly poly in corners and was an automatic I had fun flogging it in corners and through turns. As a family car it would've been cool. Honda has never been a HP leader! Is the NSX any less fun to drive because of it's HP rating

 

[AdnanVCS]

Yeah the NA2-R has some more power. but not way more the exhaust, plus some more parts ware modded by Honda!

 

[2slow2speed]

I can go for a GT3, but what is the point? I builtd a NSX based the JDM R, which is not far from the GT3 and the car will be far more reliable.

Hey Vance,

No offense, but you are really drinking the cool-aid, put some good R-compounds or slicks on a NSX and toss the car around a track at speed where it can generate lot's of cornering loads for many hours at a time and that will more than likely cause oil starvation on the NSX engine and cause it to fail, or the engine will overheat.

The GT3 is pretty much a dedicated track car, it's engine is derived from the Porsche GT1 race car, it has a dry sump oil lubrication system. It's brakes are far superior to the ones in the NSX and can take a beating all day long without problems. The cooling on the NSX is barely adequate for a track environment whereas the one on the GT3 is overengineered. The GT3 coilover suspenion is adjustable from the factory same with the sway bars the NSX is fixed. The rear wing angle on the GT3 as well as the GT3RS are adjustable in order to tune the car.

Another way of looking at it would be by taking a step back and thinking about all the mods that were made on the NA2-R in order for it to compete in the 24 hour enduro at the Ring and compare that with what was done to the 996GT3's and 997GT3's, it's like night and day. Look up Detlef's thread from about 4 years back and that will give you an idea on how many changes were required on the NSX for it to be competitive.

The 996GT3's as well as the 997GT3 are totally overengineered if you were to just drive them in the street.

In order to make your NA2 close in regards to performance as well as reliability on a true track environment as the GT3 you would have to spend a lot more than what you have spent modding your car so far, as well as looking at many other areas that you have overlooked while modding your car.

Given that you don't track your NSX it's understandable that you might be overlooking these aspects/areas so I just wanted to point them out to you.

(BTW: Many of the comments that I just made also apply to the S2K as well)

Now let's get back to talking about how we like or dislike the ASC

Ken