Honda Style magazine's take on ASC

[BD]

Just got the new Honda Style Magazine

ASC info:

From inside track

Currently the ASC is reported to have a between 4.0 to 4.5 Liter with 400-450PS.
V10 is reported to have a 72 Degree angle like the 1989 F1 Engine.
A prototype Engine was tested with 550 PS from a 5 Liter engine. A possibility.
The car utilizes lightweight material. However, with a 2 +2 design, it is currently rumored at 1500kg, which will be similar to a F430 but lighter than Gallardo.
The FR design was designated but is slated to compete with F430. Honda is expecting the car to perform like a MR platform with the SH-AWD.

The anticipation is high in Japan. The close to finish prototype will be at the Tokyo auto show. The reason is because they expect high volume sales in Japan, and also because it will be Honda’s next “pride” product, they want to the domestic audience to have the first look.

The price is projected at 150 million yen ($130k). My take is that the car will be cheaper than JDM pricing as always by about 10 to 15 grand.





The magazine also did a comparison between NA1 and NA2 R. Stated the top speed of NA2 is at 290 kph, which is 180 mph. Honda credit the top speed was achieved through weight savings, but the magazine suspected that the NA2 R is more powerful than 280ps. My take is the car need more power to reach that speed.

 

[Jeff A]

2 + 2 ???? as in a 4 seater? It's got a back seat? Whew boy, that's gonna go over GREAT with the NSX community...

 

[heySkippy]

2 + 2 ???? as in a 4 seater? It's got a back seat? Whew boy, that's gonna go over GREAT with the NSX community...

Doesn't matter. Once they put the engine in front, they lost me.

 

[Ponyboy]

Sounds promising! 3300lbs is more than ideal but with 550ps and SH-AWD, the ASC should be a performer. Dang, I really have to start learning to read Japanese. Vance, what edition of Honda Style are you quoting from?

I think, ICBW, the top speed attributed to the NA2 is the result of optimized aero and increased hp.

 

[95ttht]

$130K in Japan means $140K+ here.

Good luck with marketing a Honda 4 seater for that much.

They just seem to be getting further and further from the target I think we all would like to see. Personally, at this point I've lost hope, and all I can do now is hope it is a dismal failure just to say that we saw it coming.

Build what people want, not what you want to give them.

Does any car company in the world use a 4 seater as their flagship performance car?

 

[Ponyboy]

Does any car company in the world use a 4 seater as their flagship performance car?

Ahem...check two of the three cars in your sig.

 

[drew]

It is possible that "Honda Style" has gotten their information wrong?

The ASC is to be produced only in LHD (OR there is going to be a real NSX replacement in RHD)

http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2332801.aspx

No NSX and Type-R in doubt as Honda plans bread and butter future in Oz

Honda, once recognised as a maker of sporty cars, is facing a future of selling nothing more than mainstream transport as its local line-up steadily shrinks.

Over the past five years, the Japanese maker's 'hero' models have been gradually whittled away and according to Honda Australia managing director Toshio Iwamoto (pictured), there is nothing on the short-term horizon that might add some "spice" to the lineup.

The Prelude coupe was axed back in 2002, followed by the NSX in 2004. Last year saw the final deliveries of Integra coupes to Australia and although the small two-seater S2000 remains on sale for the moment, it is believed that the current car will not be replaced.

The new supercar NSX replacement that was shown in concept form at this year's Detroit motor show (also pictured) will not be available for Australia, as it will be left-hand drive only. This is also the case with Honda's new premium/large MDX SUV, which has now also dropped from the local sales lists.

"For a couple of years, we have to live on bread-and-butter models," Iwamoto told CarPoint at this week's launch of the new CR-V.

However, despite the reduction in models that leaves just Jazz, Civic sedan, Accord and Accord Euro, Odyssey, Legend, S2000 (for the moment) and the new CR-V in the lineup, Iwamoto says Honda is looking to increase its Australian sales by over 50 per cent in the next four years.

Last year's total sales of 54,202 units was a Honda record for Australia and an increase of just over 15 per cent on the 2005 figure, but by 2010 Honda expects to be selling 80,000 cars a year locally.

And this increase is expected without any major new model introductions. There will be, however, major model replacements with the next generation Accord and Jazz due on sale here in 2008, and potentially some diesel model additions -- though not until at least 2009 when the second-generation Honda diesel engines are available mated to automatic transmissions.

The only other potential new vehicle in the pipeline for Australia is a new small hybrid model that will be purpose-built along the lines of Toyota's Prius rather than simply dropping a hybrid drivetrain into an existing product. This car is due on sale in Japan in 2008.

Iwamoto acknowledged that the addition of a Civic hatch would help substantially in achieving Honda's local 2010 target but as it is presently built in the UK only, pricing and production capacity issues mean this is not an option.

Other Honda sources have suggested there may be a possibility that the next generation Civic, due about 2010 will include a hatch version built in Thailand or Japan. This is not a certainty, however, as Australia's requirements alone would not be enough to substantiate the investment.

In the meantime, Honda Australia is still desperately trying to get the Civic Type-R hot hatch from the UK to provide some sort of sports image. Even if it does get the green light, it will be available in limited numbers only.

Any other sports/performance models are completely off the agenda as most (including the NSX replacement) will be badged exclusively under Honda's upmarket and sporty brand Acura. Iwamoto says the company would not consider introducing the premium brand here unless it was selling in excess of 100,000 Hondas annually.

And there is little chance of Acuras being sold here with Honda badges either -- the Accord Euro being the sole exception. Honda in Japan is working to separate the two brands in a similar manner as Toyota has done with its main brand and Lexus.

 

[WingZ]

Good read Vance thanks for sharing!


Dang I hope that price is off! I honestly can't see Honda trying to compete with Aston Martin/Lexus at the same price point. I was hoping for a price between $75-90K as I want to get the ASC ( or whatever it will really be called ) and the next M3 ,but it looks like BMW and Honda keep flirting with higher prices

Didn't Honda just come out and say they were commited to replacing the S2000 I had a dealer send me an email saying that they were cancelling the S2000 ,but I don't believe dealers to have accurate info 90% of the time and that last 10% is usually just got lucky.

Can't wait for the Tokyo auto show...drool!

 

[nsxtcy85]

Ahem...check two of the three cars in your sig.

Owned!

 

[BD]

Sounds promising! 3300lbs is more than ideal but with 550ps and SH-AWD, the ASC should be a performer. Dang, I really have to start learning to read Japanese. Vance, what edition of Honda Style are you quoting from?

I think, ICBW, the top speed attributed to the NA2 is the result of optimized aero and increased hp.

March 2007 issue with ASC on the cover

$130K in Japan means $140K+ here.

Good luck with marketing a Honda 4 seater for that much.

They just seem to be getting further and further from the target I think we all would like to see. Personally, at this point I've lost hope, and all I can do now is hope it is a dismal failure just to say that we saw it coming.

Build what people want, not what you want to give them.

Does any car company in the world use a 4 seater as their flagship performance car?

The counter what you said. All Honda cars are sold cheaper in the US. The NSX was 10 grand more than the cars sold here.

As for whether the car meets your expectation, that is a matter of personal experience. You may speak for some, but not all. But I respect that; this is a free country.

Yes, Auston Martin, Porsche 911 turbo.

Good read Vance thanks for sharing!


Dang I hope that price is off! I honestly can't see Honda trying to compete with Aston Martin/Lexus at the same price point. I was hoping for a price between $75-90K as I want to get the ASC ( or whatever it will really be called ) and the next M3 ,but it looks like BMW and Honda keep flirting with higher prices

Didn't Honda just come out and say they were commited to replacing the S2000

VTEC.net and S2ki had an article about that, they claimed the new S2k will be a lesser car than what we have right now. So my take is that Honda will position a new sports car betwee the S2k replacement and ASC.

 

[drew]

Did this thread just miss the fact that ASC is NOT going to be built in RHD?

Build what people want, not what you want to give them.

Steve Jobs states for the record that people have no idea what they want until you show it to them.

BMW does not use consumer committees to judge designs.

Ford and GM ask people what they want and the results are obvious.

Asking people what they want is a recipe for mediocrity and disaster.

Incredible products are created by fanatical people with vision and drive.

 

[The Kid]

That Honda Style magazine is always inaccurate and you cant believe anything it says:wink:

 

[BD]

That Honda Style magazine is always inaccurate and you cant believe anything it says:wink:

Really? Are you talking about the Japanese magazine? I always thought they were good with what they wrote because most of the articles are Honda sourced.

 

[WingZ]

VTEC.net and S2ki had an article about that, they claimed the new S2k will be a lesser car than what we have right now. So my take is that Honda will position a new sports car betwee the S2k replacement and ASC.

Wow you think so? that would be awesome! Doesn't vtec.net say that Honda has an unamed sportscar coming?

 

[NeoNSX]

That Honda Style magazine is always inaccurate and you cant believe anything it says:wink:

It's a printed medium; of course it can't be trusted. The Internet however is always accurate... so i still have hope in a 550bhp V10 HSC coming out this year.

 

[Ski_Banker]

Did this thread just miss the fact that ASC is NOT going to be built in RHD?




Steve Jobs states for the record that people have no idea what they want until you show it to them.

BMW does not use consumer committees to judge designs.

Ford and GM ask people what they want and the results are obvious.

Asking people what they want is a recipe for mediocrity and disaster.

Incredible products are created by fanatical people with vision and drive.

That sounds nice, but in this case, the vast majority of NSX owners, and many other car enthusiasts have said loud and clear: We don't want a Honda front engine GT.

I'll state the obvious. I would absolutely rather have an M6 or Aston Martin for $110k than any front engine GT by Honda short of the Veyron. Any of those cars will perform far better than most of our abilities, and wouldn't get tracked anyway. So, in other words, if Honda's option is SH-AWD (versus an M6...) or has another 50 hp... who cares? And I'm not a brand snob, or I would have purchased a 911 or M5 to begin with instead of my NSX.

 

[sotiri]

Too bad.
There are more people that want a front engine car than a mid engine car.
You just cant run a company on the desires of a few thousand car enthusiasts... who by the way dont want to pay high end prices.

 

[nsxotic911]

That sounds nice, but in this case, the vast majority of NSX owners, and many other car enthusiasts have said loud and clear: We don't want a Honda front engine GT.

I'll state the obvious. I would absolutely rather have an M6 or Aston Martin for $110k than any front engine GT by Honda short of the Veyron. Any of those cars will perform far better than most of our abilities, and wouldn't get tracked anyway. So, in other words, if Honda's option is SH-AWD (versus an M6...) or has another 50 hp... who cares? And I'm not a brand snob, or I would have purchased a 911 or M5 to begin with instead of my NSX.

Why would you have an M6 or an Aston versus the ASC - *IF* - you are not a brand snob? If the assumption above is true, it is only logical to think that one will judge the purchasing option based on its merit.

Not getting the ASC b/c it's a "Honda" makes just as much sense as the mentality of some consumers 10 years ago not buying a Lexus b/c it's not a Mercedes. Only to find out that, given the price point, they are much more reliable, just as luxurious, and unless you really don't care about money or are a brand snob, a wiser choice. Of course, Lexus doesn't offer 500+ HP AMG Beasts and thus easily takes that crowd....


If the ASC is just as good as the M6/Aston, and God forbid, better and WITH SH-AWD, then it's a a contendor and it will compete! If it's fat/slow/unorigional/dumb & too expensive (or cheap, like the Vette, relative to performance that is..), then yeah, it will not do so well...

I think if ASC is as good or better, it will get bought. Period.

 

[2slow2speed]

Too bad.
There are more people that want a front engine car than a mid engine car.
You just cant run a company on the desires of a few thousand car enthusiasts... who by the way dont want to pay high end prices.

This *has* to be one of the most ignorant comments that I've read in a long while..

What do you say to the thousands of buyers who buy P-cars every year (they happen to be MR or RR and *not* FR cars) The average selling price for a 997 is close to the 100K mark and for the 987's they are in the 65K range.

Then again if Acura is hoping to lure away potential buyers of Vipers/Corvette's/Shelby Mustangs with the ASC then I wish them the best of luck, brand loyalty as well as the "Buy American" mentalility are *very* ingrained on those buyers.

Maybe Acura is going after the buyers who bought the current generation Lexus SC430 or the previous generation SC300/SC400, LOL.. Doubt that they would take too many sales away from MB/AM/Jaguar/BMW though, only time will tell.

 

[Maxime]

Why does car makers always have to take something simple and trash it.

Who the hell is going to pay +130k for a GT car from Honda?

No one. That's who.

How hard is it to build a simple ~3000 lbs car with 450-500hp and sell it for ~70k? Really?

It doesnt need fancy AWD, traction control, carbon fiber, etc... etc... etc...

Simple construction, decent power, low price.

That's all people want.

 

[BD]

Why does car makers always have to take something simple and trash it.
Who the hell is going to pay +130k for a GT car from Honda?
No one. That's who.
How hard is it to build a simple ~3000 lbs car with 450-500hp and sell it for ~70k? Really?
It doesnt need fancy AWD, traction control, carbon fiber, etc... etc... etc...
Simple construction, decent power, low price.
That's all people want.

NSX was not a simple car when introduced in 1991. In fact, the car is still not a simple design by today's standard.

Who will pay 130 grand for a Honda, well, they will sell some, but not to you.

Apearantly, it is very difficult to build a sub 3000 lb sports car with 400 hp for under $70k. F430, Gallardo are way over that price and both are over that mark by at least 10%.

Which 400 plus hp super car do you know that is without TCS, exotic materials? AWD is a plus on sports car, but according to you, AWD system on Skyline, 959, Gallardo/Murcerlargo, R8, 911 Turbo, etc. are just a waste.

Simple construction with decent power and low price do exist, it is called Corvette, Elise, Cayman, Mustang cobra, Camero, etc.

You are correct, that is why those company sells shit load of these cheaply built straight line cars, and that is why most of those companies loose money every year.

This *has* to be one of the most ignorant comments that I've read in a long while..

What do you say to the thousands of buyers who buy P-cars every year (they happen to be MR or RR and *not* FR cars) The average selling price for a 997 is close to the 100K mark and for the 987's they are in the 65K range.

Then again if Acura is hoping to lure away potential buyers of Vipers/Corvette's/Shelby Mustangs with the ASC then I wish them the best of luck, brand loyalty as well as the "Buy American" mentalility are *very* ingrained on those buyers.

Maybe Acura is going after the buyers who bought the current generation Lexus SC430 or the previous generation SC300/SC400, LOL.. Doubt that they would take too many sales away from MB/AM/Jaguar/BMW though, only time will tell.

911 Buyers are mostly 911 fans, and most of the sales are probably return buyers. The demand of FR platform is in my option, more desirable because it is easier to driver, which is why Porsche also produced front engine cars. Same goes with Ferrari.

Acura’s hope of luring buyers from Corvette and Viper did not happen with the NSX, what makes you think a new MR will work. Muscle car buyers will always be muscle car buyers because you get great value for the money.

I have always believe that Honda came to term that car such as NSX is not going to be a profit maker. It has become a halo car in which the engineers get to show off what they can do. Therefore, it is more of a design exercise. Just look the NSX, Honda show the world what they can do for their first super car. I may be wrong, but that is my take. Do you think Bugatti Veyron, Porsche Carrera GT, Ford GT were profit maker? In fact, I heard S2k was not a money maker either, and they sell about 10000 per year world wide.

I’m a big advocate of MR, but if Honda wants to make a FR car, and perform well, I may buy one if the car fits my budget.

I’m having problem understand your take on people who will step out of cars such as SC430 to the ASC, simply because those are not performance oriented car. What would your take be if this car could run with a SLR Vision for 1/3 the price? I think it will be great. ASC’s projected 3300lbs will be on par with SLR’s 3800lbs in terms of Power to Weight ratio, which if Honda do make it over 500hp, the car should fly. In fact, I think this car may out perform cars such as F430 and Gallardo. It will be fun to see the finish product.

 

[95ttht]

The counter what you said. All Honda cars are sold cheaper in the US. The NSX was 10 grand more than the cars sold here.

I disagree, and here is some proof.

The S2000 in the USA starts at $34,250 according to Honda.com today.

The same S2000 in Japan starts at 3,780,000 yen, which converts to $31,483 USD at todays current exchange rates.

You'll find similar pricing on most honda cars made in Japan. Cheaper in Japan by 5-15%.

 

[95ttht]

Ahem...check two of the three cars in your sig.

haha. Yeah, I noticed that right away... foot-in-mouth. :tongue:

 

[BD]

I disagree, and here is some proof.

The S2000 in the USA starts at $34,250 according to Honda.com today.

The same S2000 in Japan starts at 3,780,000 yen, which converts to $31,483 USD at todays current exchange rates.

You'll find similar pricing on most honda cars made in Japan. Cheaper in Japan by 5-15%.

To answer your question, yes and no. In Japan, S2k starts with less features. Also the Licensing is much higher than the US. That said, if you buy a similarly equipped S2k, you will pay more.

 

[Ski_Banker]

Too bad.
There are more people that want a front engine car than a mid engine car.
You just cant run a company on the desires of a few thousand car enthusiasts... who by the way dont want to pay high end prices.

I love this guy. It's like playing "pin the tail on the donkey."

By the way -- what impact have you had, personally, on the implosion of the Acura brand in the the U.S.? Did you help design any of the plebian transportation vessels Acura has brought to market recently? Just curious.

Anyway, the irony is that Audi is actually positioned now (for its R8 release) similarly to how Acura was in 1991. Audi has momentum, as Acura did then. With the help of not having designers like you, Audi won't succumb to future mediocracy in the way that Acura has.