Honda and F1

Ok, some more facts.
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Let's look the last 3 years, after 4 races :

2000: 6 DNF's, 16 points, best finish 3rd.
2001: 5 DNF's, 13 points, best finish 4th.
2002: 11 DNF's, 0 points, best finish 7th.

They are going backwards in results.

The question: are they getting worse in overall performance or is the *new* competition quality (Toyota, Renault) improved?
 
Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
The same for Toyota, they started in 2000 working on the F1 cars... but what really count is the race season: both Toyota and Renault are at their first official season and are doind very well.

This is Renault's first season as a complete team (chassis and engine). They supplied the Bennetton team with factory engines for at least 1 year (I think it was 2).

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'91 Black/Black
 
It was reported today that Honda may have to reconsider supplying Jordan with engines in order to concentrate their efforts on BAR.

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Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia"
- Brock Yates
 
BTW does anyone else race the game "F1 2001" from EA Sports? They have a multi-player mode that would be fun to race against some fellow members.

[This message has been edited by hejo (edited 22 April 2002).]
 
Ferrari's technical director Ross Brawn says Honda have to focus their efforts on one team if they are to have a chance of regaining their Formula One dominance.
The Japanese car giant currently supply engines to Jordan and British American Racing.

Honda won six successive manufacturers' titles with Williams and McLaren between 1986 and 1991.

But since returning to F1 in 2000 after a seven-year absence, they have not managed a single victory.

And this season they have not scored a point in four races so far.

Ahead of the Spanish Grand Prix in Barcelona, Brawn outlined what he considers to be the reasons for Honda's failure.

"If there is one criticism of their approach it is that they still look like an engine supplier rather than a partner," he said.

"Honda have to look at that if they want to be successful. They have got to get together with a team and become one entity.

'Fabulous partner'

"They need to bite the bullet and go in with a team if they want to achieve the success they had in the past. It's more difficult now.

"We supply engines to Sauber but on a customer basis. We give them as much support as we can, but it does not effect our own F1 effort."

There is speculation that Honda is considering pulling out of its deal to supply engines to Jordan in 2003.

But team chief Eddie Jordan insisted on Friday that he was confident of continuing with the deal next season.

"I have a solid contract with them. People are saying they are going to do a runner, but I do not think they are. They are a fabulous partner," he said.

Takeo Fukui, president of Honda's research and development department, signalled a possible change of plan earlier this month.

"We signed a three-year contract with Jordan last year. But we have to look into reconsidering this agreement," he said.

From BBC News
 
Well, Honda scored exactly zero points in yesterday's Spanish Grand Prix. Only one of the four Hondas finished (Villeneuve - in 7th place). Both Toyotas finished the rece.

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'91 Black/Black
 
Again... zero points in total... good I took my "H" badge away 8 months ago!
Nobody knows what am I driving here!
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Shame also on Ferrari for what they did to Rubens yesterday!!!
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Schumacher should have ignored the team order to pass Barrichello 50m before the finish line... HE IS SCHUMACHER and he can do what he feels. The team would have understood and the heads too... the championship is already won.
 
Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
Again... zero points in total... good I took my "H" badge away 8 months ago!
Nobody knows what am I driving here!

Actually, Fisichella took fifth place and scored two points for Honda.

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'91 Black/Black
 
Seems like the rules won't let drivers decide the outcome of a race (Remember whomever gets to the first corner first?) but teams still can. At least the race wasn't decided by fuel consumption stratagies.
 
I was VERY dissapointed with BAR's pit strategy. He had an absolutely astonishing race and worked his way up from near last to 3rd place. He passed Fisichella and even Coulthard at one point to move into 5th. It was an excellent race. Yet, he pitted so early on in the race that he had to give up his 3rd place to pit again, ending up in 8th after exiting the pits.
The numbers showed it all. All the cars in front of him had only 1 pit stop... he had 3. Very dissapointing because Jacque drove an incredible race and deserved much, much better... at least fifth.
Of course, then the car exploded on the final lap. Imagine if he still was in 3rd and that happened!
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I have always been a long time fan of Jacques Villeneuve. Yesterday, he proved that he still has it to contend in F1. Honda came with a new spec engine for A1 ring and it is a big improvement from the previous ones. I'm hopeful that Honda should be a championship contender next year. Hopefully, Villeneuve will stay with BAR.
 
Originally posted by ilya:
I was VERY dissapointed with BAR's pit strategy. ..Yet, he pitted so early on in the race that he had to give up his 3rd place to pit again, ending up in 8th after exiting the pits. The numbers showed it all. All the cars in front of him had only 1 pit stop... he had 3.

I belive one of the Pit Stops was a penalty and the other early stop was either for damage from the collision with Frentzen or they tried to take advantage of the safety car situation. It certainly was not their strategy to stop 3 times.

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'91 Black/Black

[This message has been edited by Michigan NSX (edited 13 May 2002).]
 
Yes, he had a stop-and-go penalty for hitting Frentzen at the start of the racce.

Anyone besides me cheer when Villenue passed the Toyota on the front straight? he he he.



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Tim Meekins
1997 Yellow NSX-T
http://tmeekins.com
 
cojones,
I do not find that leaving Schumi win over the teammate takes away credibility since they pay several millions per race and they can decide how to organize the "team play" between the two racers. That's normal... it happens in every team competition (strategy).

What I do not find correct is Ferrari's behaviour against Barrichello. The season is won and they could have let Barrichello win (he deserved it, it would not have been a "present")...
 
There's also the "x-files" theory where FIA asked Ferrari to do this in order to disqualify these points and make the championship a little more intersting... I do not believe this though.
 
Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
cojones,
I do not find that leaving Schumi win over the teammate takes away credibility since they pay several millions per race and they can decide how to organize the "team play" between the two racers. That's normal... it happens in every team competition (strategy).

What I do not find correct is Ferrari's behaviour against Barrichello. The season is won and they could have let Barrichello win (he deserved it, it would not have been a "present")...

During the last Honda F1 run with McLarren, Senna always got the fastest car, forcing Alain Prost to move on from McLarren.

But I agreed that Formula 1 lost a lot of credibilities this past weekend.

For a company so rich in F1 heritage, Honda is doing a bad job in handling its F1 program. They abandoned the idea of fielding in-house team couple years ago. Bad move.
 
Originally posted by NSX2F1:
...For a company so rich in F1 heritage, Honda is doing a bad job in handling its F1 program. They abandoned the idea of fielding in-house team couple years ago. Bad move.

The abandoned the idea because Dr Harvey Posthlewait(sp?), the man in charge of their inhouse project, died. They then decided to just supply engines.

I agree that they aren't doing well

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'91 Black/Black
 
Originally posted by Michigan NSX:
The abandoned the idea because Dr Harvey Posthlewait(sp?), the man in charge of their inhouse project, died. They then decided to just supply engines.

I agree that they aren't doing well


When Honda was running their full blown test mule (chassis, engine and all)... they were setting the fastest laps during testing.

What could have been...
 
While I said that they are doing a bad job in handling its F1 program, they are doing worse in promoting to general public, its F1 heritage or even its motorsport culture in general. Honda loves to race, especially bikes and cars. But nobody know this. They are known for producer of mass market reliable cars

Few if any Integra Type R owner sporting Championship White color on their cars know that it is the color of the 1967 Honda RA272 which won Honda's first Grand Prix.

Unless you follow Motorsport closely, you won't know that Honda has been dominating GP250 and 500 (racing bike equivalent of F1)in the past few years.

Almost everybody that drives WRX aware that Subaru is a powerhouse in WRC.
 
The FIA, F1’s governing body, has summoned the Ferrari team to appear before the World Motor Sports Council to account for its tactics at the Austrian Grand Prix. This follows an outcry by disgruntled fans and the Italian and British Press after the race.

The council will convene on June 26 in Paris, where the management of the Ferrari team and its drivers will be asked to account for their actions at the end of the race, when Rubens Barrichello slowed to let Michael Schumacher win.

They will also have to explain their actions at the podium ceremony when the German pushed his Brazilian team-mate onto the top step, where he remained while the German national anthem played. Schumacher also handed the Brazilian the winner’s trophy – a clear contravention of the governing body's procedure.

It is not clear what action, if any, the FIA will take against Ferrari. However, the question of bringing the sport into disrepute is bound to the major point of discussion in the run-up to June 26. Some observers have speculated that Schumacher could lose the points he won for finishing first in the race after his team-mate was ordered to slow metres before the finish line on the last lap. Others believe both drivers could be penalised by being banned from a race or future races

Technically, Ferrari did not break any rules, but sources close to the FIA believe the incident was against the spirit of competition.

An FIA statement said: "Following an incident during the last lap of the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix... the FIA has summoned the Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro and the drivers Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello to appear before the World Motor Sports Council."

Meanwhile, the tifosi and newspapers in the Italian press were reeling with disillusionment following Ferrari’s manipulation of the result of the A1-Ring race. A poll held by the website of Italy's foremost sports newspaper, Gazzetta dello Sport, showed that only six per cent of readers agreed with the way the team had ordered Barrichello to move over and hand the world champion his 57th win.

On Monday, the Gazetta ran with the headline “Ferrari ruins everything”, and its report leveled the blame at the team’s sporting director, Jean Todt, but argued that Schumacher could have “calmed the situation”.

"Michael was the only one who had the strength to oppose a decision that was insanely unsportsmanlike and unpopular," the report said. "This is a catastrophe for Ferrari because certain things one remembers and talks about."

Its main rival, the Corriere dello Sport, took the line that Barrichello's newly signed two-year contract accounted for his obedience of Ferrari’s orders, despite the fact that he was heading for only his second Grand Prix victory.

"Rubens - paid to lose," the paper declared. "He has been fooled one time too many. Now Rubens Barrichello shows the world a dull, pale, face of thunder."

However, the Brazilian received a more sympathetic reaction from L'Unita. "Barrichello defeated by Team Ferrari," read the headline. "The crowd sang the praises of Barrichello, like the audience at the Coliseum did with their beloved gladiators."

Back in Barrichello's homeland, the Brazilian president was adamant that the best man had lost. "Today, all Brazil is unanimous," Fernando Henrique Cardoso told the nation. "Rubens Barrichello was the winner of the Austrian Grand Prix. The cup is his."

Britain's newspapers have, understandably, dealt Ferrari a series of stinging attacks. The Sun led with “The day Formula 1 died of shame”, the Daily Mirror: “The end of Formula One”, the Daily Telegraph: “Formula One is the loser” and The Times: “Schumacher's cynical victory casts shame on Formula One”.

Newspaper column writers vented their anger on both Schumacher and Barrichello. The Guardian's Richard Williams described Schumacher allowing Barrichello on to the top step of the podium as a "nauseatingly hypocritical gesture". And he, like many others, “found it hard to believe that Schumacher did not have any say in the decision, something the German denied after the race”.

Barrichello has also come in for criticism after accepting the decision so easily. As Kevin Eason in The Times pointed out: "The fact that the ink is barely dry on a new contract worth R118,4 million to the Brazilian only added to the feeling that he has taken 30 pieces of silver to act as Schumacher's mercenary in the battle for the championship."

It appears as if some quarters of the British press will find it hard to take F1 seriously after this controversial weekend. As Simon Hughes of The Telegraph said: "When is a sport not a sport? When it is Formula One."

Italian online betting company Snai said it would pay punters who staked money on Barrichello winning the Austrian Grand Prix.

"This decision has been taken to protect our customers who had placed Barrichello as the winner," Snai said in a statement.

The company said 35 per cent of bets placed had picked Barrichello as the winner, with 34 per cent backing four-time world champion Schumacher.

Swedish public lottery Svenska Spel announced they had suspended all bets on F1 racing following the row, and had also agreed to pay out on bets made for Barrichello.

"According to our rules we only have to pay bets taken on Schumacher. Because of the special events we have chosen to make an exception to the rule," a spokesman for Svenska Spel said.
 
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