Honda and F1

[gheba_nsx]

Am I the only one disappointed by Honda's results this year in F1? Honda has been back for 4 years (? cannot verify this but it should be four or five years) and the engines do still have big problems both on power AND in reliability. Normally when you do not have power at least you get reliablity.

Toyota is doing very well at the first season and Renault is doing wonderfully... I do not know but I think that the weak results we see in F1 are somewhat related to the direction the whole company got.

We are far away from the end of the '80s... McLaren-Honda, Senna and the NSX!

Now we have family cars without technical supremacy (the Civic, Legend, Prelude of that period were so much better than the competition), we have the faclifted NSX

and we almost never finish a F1 race...

I am a bit scary about what can happen for the next-gen NSX...

 

[hejo]

I'm disappointed as well. I think this signals a change in the company focus. Actually when I look at what Honda has done to the Acura brand in the USA it's quite clear that they are not focused on high-end customers anymore. There's a significant difference in the way I'm treated at the MB, BMW, and Lexus versus Acura.

With respect to picking up another exotic I was thinking of holding out for the 2nd Gen NSX but lately I'm thinking more about picking up a used 360 Ferrari.

 

[Enzo]

I think that all the engineers are working so hard on the NEXT GEN NSX that they have not enough time for the F1 !

 

[ilya]

I'm disappointed as well. For Toyota to be doing better than Honda it's very first year is absolutely unnacceptable.... and I want the whole lot fired.

Maybe they aren't the leaders they once were. Very disappointing. If Toyota is finishing top three just a couple years from
now and Honda is still in the gutter, I'll be looking very closely at their next flagship exotic instead. And I will not be the only one. Take notice Honda and get your S__t together! NOW! Dammit... see now I'm all upset.

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 01 April 2002).]

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
Am I the only one disappointed by Honda's results this year in F1 competition

Also disappointing is the fact that Acura is a sponsor of the F1 broadcasts on Speed Channel. What car do they feature? The MDX... go figure...

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[ilya]

On the positive side, the Speedvis.... errr umm Speed Channel coverage of F1, World Challenge, Rally and many others has been even better than before. I'm willing to put up with the nascar as long as the rest of the coverage continues like this.

 

[hejo]

Here's a pic I took of Michael when I was at the race in Malaysia. As I scan more I'll post them in the off topic area.

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hejo
95 NSX-T - Sold

Lake Oswego, Oregon
95T Blk\Blk SportShift

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by ilya:
On the positive side, the Speedvis.... errr umm Speed Channel coverage of F1, World Challenge, Rally and many others has been even better than before. I'm willing to put up with the nascar as long as the rest of the coverage continues like this.

Well, we're a bit off the topic but I have to agree. Did you catch the classic Ferrari stuff with Alain deCadenet hosting? Outstanding stuff! As for the Nascar - give it a chance - I'm not a huge fan (have to watch what I say - this is being typed in Charlotte in the home of a Hendrick's employee...) but it is interesting - and, having seen how the cars are constructed - they are not the farm equipment that I had always imagined them to be.

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[ilya]

I think many of them are very good drivers and have nothing against the cars. It just always bored me watching races in an oval.
I can't watch the Indy500 either.

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by ilya:
It just always bored me watching races in an oval.
I can't watch the Indy500 either.

...or any IRL race. Heck, I have trouble watching CART's oval races.

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'91 Black/Black

 

[millionshopper]

I just watched CART Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach. Michael Andreti took first place, with his Honda sponsored engine.

Maybe Honda is still struggling in F1 but in CART its winning races.

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by gomaidy:
I just watched CART Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach. Michael Andreti took first place, with his Honda sponsored engine.

Maybe Honda is still struggling in F1 but in CART its winning races.

Well, Honda has won the CART series for, what, the last 6 years? Unfortunately, having decided last fall not to remain in CART after this year, Honda will not have an engine for next year even if they decide to stay. Leaves them with having to put Honda badges on something like a Judd motor for 2003.


------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by lemansnsx:
Unfortunately, having decided last fall not to remain in CART after this year, Honda will not have an engine for next year even if they decide to stay. Leaves them with having to put Honda badges on something like a Judd motor for 2003.

Actually MG will have their badges on the Judd engines next year in CART. By the way Honda finally finished ahead of Toyota in today's San Marino Gran Prix - however they finished behind the Renaults.

P.S. The thumbs down in this post is for Honda, not lemansnsx.

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'91 Black/Black

 

[ilya]

At least BAR did much better this race than all year finishing 7th. As long as they continue improving and can finish consistently right behind McLaren and Williams by the end of the year, I would call it a success. They have a long way to go.

 

[gheba_nsx]

For me it is still a "no comment"...

4 cars: 3 did not finish and one arrived 7th (=0 points!)

After 4 F1-races this season:

1 Ferrari 40 points
2 Williams 37
3 McLaren 9
4 Renault 8
5 Jaguar 3
6 Sauber 3
7 Minardi 2
8 Toyota 2
9 BAR 0
10 Jordan 0
10 Arrows 0

Renault and Toyota are at their first season... and we, after so many seasons, are LAST with TWO teams...

I repeat: IMHO the facilifted NSX and the F1 results smell the same to me...

 

[hejo]

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
I repeat: IMHO the facilifted NSX and the F1 results smell the same to me...

I hate to say it but I agree with you. I mean with Honda leaving CART and performing so low in F1 what is the focus? Toyota seems like that are serious about F1. I know they're working on a supercar as well. Maybe they are trying to build some awareness to have some creditability.

Then with F1 if Michael keeps leaving the field so far behind it's going to get really boring. I mean 16+ seconds??? Where's the racing? Then all the cars that had problems in qualifying and even finishing the race.

 

[MAJOR STONER]

F1, still the best "show" in racing? An entire race with only one single pass? Honda has to get a better sponsor and get more dosh for a driver, they dominate when they have the best. Too bad these guys only get motivated by money. Does Honda even do alot of business in the European market?

 

[gheba_nsx]

Yes, Major, Honda sells quite well in Europe and maybe you do not know that F1 is not only "about Europe" but it is "about THE REST of the world, USA partly excluded". The F1 championship is the numer one sport event (together with the FIFA Soccer World Cup) in Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania and South America: this makes 4,5 out of 5 continents...

About Schumi & Ferrari dominanting... it is not their fault

In F1 everybody wants to win and display the best technology... and if you have such bad results as Honda is having... sorry but BLAME ON THEM!

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by MAJOR STONER:
F1, still the best "show" in racing?

Yes - because the "show" is still a race not "managed competition". The best car with the best driver should be allowed to win the race - not be penalized by full course cautions (CART, NASCAR, TRANSAM), mandatory pit stops (CART), requirements to change all 4 tires on each stop (CART), or adjustments made to his car because either his manufacturer is too good (NASCAR) or he did too well in the last race (SpeedVision GT). If you are not fast enough in F1 - do your homework, get better drivers and sponsors or go home.

Don't even get me started on the ruining of classic corners with chicanes or pit lane speed limits in the name of "safety". Make it safe - yes - but not at the expense of the racing. As Jacques Villenueve said "Racing is supposed to be dangerous - otherwise anyone could do it".

P.S. If they are so concerned with safety, why did they reinstitute refueling into F1??

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'91 Black/Black

[This message has been edited by Michigan NSX (edited 15 April 2002).]

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by Michigan NSX:

P.S. If they are so concerned with safety, why did they reinstitute refueling into F1??

Because if they hadn't we would never be treated to images like this?

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[MAJOR STONER]

There is so much money going around (team managers and engineers making fistfuls of millions) that it comes down to protecting turf. Maybe racing and money are always at war, and a shake-up is needed in F1. Once the top team, sponsor, and driver get together, it may make for a one man show that makes the sport more popular, but it has become a bit of a parade, for whatever reasons. Honda, is stuck with a crap car, and everbody has everything so locked up legally, so where can they go to get a better car? Maybe they need to get things in-house and run their own show.

Then today:

Otmar Szafnauer appointed as Vice-President of Honda Racing Development Ltd
Honda Racing Development Ltd, the UK base of Honda's Formula One programme, announced today (Monday) that it has appointed Otmar Szafnauer as its first Vice-President with immediate effect.

Four races into the season seems like the best time for a shake-up.

 

[gheba_nsx]

"Racing is supposed to be dangerous - otherwise anyone could do it"

Ehi, I like this quote!

Michigan NSX you are right, F1 can be boring because of a team superiority to the competition but there is always a rotation (in this order McLaren, Benetton, Williams, McLaren, Ferrari in the last 15 years dominated an "era" of the F1 championships... and averytîme after a couple years the "king" was defeated and a new king was found...). This leads to an incredible increment in the featured tecnology and for me THAT is the real show!

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Era? That reminds me...One item of note is that over at Honda's F1 site, they have the history of Honda in racing. It only goes up until '92, when according to them, the second era of Honda's envolvement ended.

"Honda Formula One History Chapter One 1964-1968"

"Honda Formula One History Chapter Two 1983-1992"
http://www.hondaf1.com

 

[POWERED by HONDA]

This is technically not Renault's first year. The Renault engine has been under development for at least two years.

But regardless... I am very disappointed with Honda's performance in F1. VERY.

 

[gheba_nsx]

The same for Toyota, they started in 2000 working on the F1 cars... but what really count is the race season: both Toyota and Renault are at their first official season and are doind very well.

IMO Honda should either take the whole F1 issue in a more serious way or avoid to participate. I used to brag about Honda's F1 heritage... now I am ashamed. No wonders they do stop talking about their F1 history with the McLaren-Honda era!