Auveco 19231 - identical to OEM
Honcho's Long Road to Imola Type-S Zero
- Thread starter Honcho
- Start date
Auveco 19231 - identical to OEM
Thanks keep up the amazing work
Body and Paint Work 10
This has been the main focus during the past week. Framing almost done! Still, I had some time today for NSX work.
With such great success with the soda blaster on the battery holder, I decided to tackle the shift cable holder/brace, which was covered in red overspray. I originally thought the black crud on it was just road dirt from 26 years of driving. I was wrong- very wrong.
My clue should have been the perfectly straight dirt lines on the small cross bar (seen resting on the bench)
As with the battery holder, the overspray blasted off very easily, revealing pristine aluminum. However, when I hit the "dirt," almost nothing happened. It was not "road grime." It was rubberized undercoat and it was glued to the metal. I went through about 10 lbs of soda and even at 125 psi it was slow going. Each pass had to be repeated over and over. I finally switched to ground glass media, which was as aggressive as I would go on the soft aluminum. While it removed the undercoat faster, it was too much for the metal and left a pitted surface. I switched back to soda but by now the air coming off the compressor was very hot and it was condensing in the nozzle, melting the soda into a crust that kept clogging the gun. I had to give up on blasting. Here is how far I got after almost 2 hours. The entire battery holder, which is much more metal surface area, took 30 min.
Not willing to accept defeat, I decided to chemically strip the stuff. Remember the stuff that melted the air Jordan stickers off the center caps in less than 30 seconds? That stuff. Now, I don't know what kind of radioactive waste super material this undercoat is made out of, but it just soaked up the remover and dried out almost instantly. I had to chip it away with my plastic scraper while constantly pouring more remover. It was misery. Pure misery. I got it to this point and just gave up after another hour of chipping.
Having left the rest of it for the blaster, I noticed that the pitted surface was noticeably different from the shiny metal under the chemically-stripped undercoat. What to do? I decided to use a red scotchbrite pad, some water and bar keeper's friend to "re-grain" the metal. Finally, something that worked well! Almost 4 hours in and I still have to go back and blast this again. Still, it is progress.
Again, I find myself pondering why on earth someone would do this to the car. The aluminum subframe pieces are one of the unique features of the car! It's what makes it a NSX! I suspect the same shop that did the shoddy paint job probably sold the owner on a "rust-proofing" undercoat. Now that I know what it looks like, it's all over the bottom of the car. Thankfully, it seems this is the only aluminum piece that was painted with that stuff.
This has been the main focus during the past week. Framing almost done! Still, I had some time today for NSX work.
With such great success with the soda blaster on the battery holder, I decided to tackle the shift cable holder/brace, which was covered in red overspray. I originally thought the black crud on it was just road dirt from 26 years of driving. I was wrong- very wrong.
My clue should have been the perfectly straight dirt lines on the small cross bar (seen resting on the bench)
As with the battery holder, the overspray blasted off very easily, revealing pristine aluminum. However, when I hit the "dirt," almost nothing happened. It was not "road grime." It was rubberized undercoat and it was glued to the metal. I went through about 10 lbs of soda and even at 125 psi it was slow going. Each pass had to be repeated over and over. I finally switched to ground glass media, which was as aggressive as I would go on the soft aluminum. While it removed the undercoat faster, it was too much for the metal and left a pitted surface. I switched back to soda but by now the air coming off the compressor was very hot and it was condensing in the nozzle, melting the soda into a crust that kept clogging the gun. I had to give up on blasting. Here is how far I got after almost 2 hours. The entire battery holder, which is much more metal surface area, took 30 min.
Not willing to accept defeat, I decided to chemically strip the stuff. Remember the stuff that melted the air Jordan stickers off the center caps in less than 30 seconds? That stuff. Now, I don't know what kind of radioactive waste super material this undercoat is made out of, but it just soaked up the remover and dried out almost instantly. I had to chip it away with my plastic scraper while constantly pouring more remover. It was misery. Pure misery. I got it to this point and just gave up after another hour of chipping.
Having left the rest of it for the blaster, I noticed that the pitted surface was noticeably different from the shiny metal under the chemically-stripped undercoat. What to do? I decided to use a red scotchbrite pad, some water and bar keeper's friend to "re-grain" the metal. Finally, something that worked well! Almost 4 hours in and I still have to go back and blast this again. Still, it is progress.
Again, I find myself pondering why on earth someone would do this to the car. The aluminum subframe pieces are one of the unique features of the car! It's what makes it a NSX! I suspect the same shop that did the shoddy paint job probably sold the owner on a "rust-proofing" undercoat. Now that I know what it looks like, it's all over the bottom of the car. Thankfully, it seems this is the only aluminum piece that was painted with that stuff.
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Brake Overhaul 03
I was feeling dejected from my struggle with the undercoated shift cable holder/brace, so I decided to finish up the passenger front caliper and get a coat of primer on it. That plan too was a failure.
It started out well. This tool is your friend for reaching where the grinder brush cannot.
Then the problems began. My trick for removing the caliper pistons is to blow compressed air into the caliper, which will pop out the pistons. On the black 91 car, they popped right out. Not on old 317. No, this time only the large piston came out. I placed it back in over the seal (make sure it is perfectly straight when you do this!) and slid it back enough to hold pressure, holding it in place with a c-clamp. I fired again and nothing. The small piston didn't budge. It's now evident why the brakes felt so bad on this car - the pistons are pretty much frozen in place (the large one sounded like a gunshot when it finally broke loose).
What a depressing day. Two projects started, neither finished, despite considerable effort. I have to figure out how to get this piston out...
I was feeling dejected from my struggle with the undercoated shift cable holder/brace, so I decided to finish up the passenger front caliper and get a coat of primer on it. That plan too was a failure.
It started out well. This tool is your friend for reaching where the grinder brush cannot.
Then the problems began. My trick for removing the caliper pistons is to blow compressed air into the caliper, which will pop out the pistons. On the black 91 car, they popped right out. Not on old 317. No, this time only the large piston came out. I placed it back in over the seal (make sure it is perfectly straight when you do this!) and slid it back enough to hold pressure, holding it in place with a c-clamp. I fired again and nothing. The small piston didn't budge. It's now evident why the brakes felt so bad on this car - the pistons are pretty much frozen in place (the large one sounded like a gunshot when it finally broke loose).
What a depressing day. Two projects started, neither finished, despite considerable effort. I have to figure out how to get this piston out...
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Weight Reduction - S Zero Conversion 10
Despite the frustrations of the day with the undercoat and the brake caliper, some good things too. A box arrived from Japan.
Imola Orange Honda hood emblem. I figured once these are gone, they're gone, so I decided to pick it up now. SO much nicer than the emblem they use for Acura.
Special delivery from Adnan.
91-96 rear brake pistons. These are discontinued in the US and, based on the last set I saw in my old NSX, they are probably in need of replacing. Another "better safe than sorry" purchase. I would hate to get the rears apart only to find that there are no more new pistons available.
Type-S and S-Zero shift knob. Amazing piece. I decided to go genuine Honda here because I don't like the clip on the SoS version and this part is one of the main connections between driver and NSX. I wanted it to feel like the real Honda.
Adnan's excellent horn button doesn't quite match the factory titanium. I'll have to find a close match paint for the button. Any ideas?
Despite the frustrations of the day with the undercoat and the brake caliper, some good things too. A box arrived from Japan.
Imola Orange Honda hood emblem. I figured once these are gone, they're gone, so I decided to pick it up now. SO much nicer than the emblem they use for Acura.
Special delivery from Adnan.
91-96 rear brake pistons. These are discontinued in the US and, based on the last set I saw in my old NSX, they are probably in need of replacing. Another "better safe than sorry" purchase. I would hate to get the rears apart only to find that there are no more new pistons available.
Type-S and S-Zero shift knob. Amazing piece. I decided to go genuine Honda here because I don't like the clip on the SoS version and this part is one of the main connections between driver and NSX. I wanted it to feel like the real Honda.
Adnan's excellent horn button doesn't quite match the factory titanium. I'll have to find a close match paint for the button. Any ideas?
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If you have access to a media blaster why would you use any other method of stripping the brake calipers? I’ve done calipers both ways and media blasting is so, so, so much better. It gets down into all the nooks and crannies that you can’t get with a wire wheel and is much faster. I used glass beads to do mine and just reused the media repeatedly so I didn’t need to buy more than a single 25lb box.
Also the OEM Honda horn button is very close to the shift knob in terms of finish, not perfect but the only way to do that would be to have one custom fabricated out of titanium which would be extremely pricey. I documented my adventures in trying to match the Type R shift knob in my build thread. There is no paint in existence that will come close to matching the shift knob, it’s shot blasted titanium. I was able to match it nearly perfectly for my titanium hand brake project using 70 grit steel shot.
Also the OEM Honda horn button is very close to the shift knob in terms of finish, not perfect but the only way to do that would be to have one custom fabricated out of titanium which would be extremely pricey. I documented my adventures in trying to match the Type R shift knob in my build thread. There is no paint in existence that will come close to matching the shift knob, it’s shot blasted titanium. I was able to match it nearly perfectly for my titanium hand brake project using 70 grit steel shot.
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The cars are heavily undercoated from the factory. Having been down the de-undercoatification trail a few times I feel for you. FWIW, what worked well for me was to soak the under coating for a few days with bug and tar remover. Then I would blast it off with my pressure washer hooked up to the hot water spigot for my washing machine. The bug and tar remover and hot water worked pretty good. If I had access to a dry ice blaster I think that would be the best.
I have pictures of the same parts in my thread. You need the photobucket plugin from chrome to see them though.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/187006-McDork%E2%80%99s-1998-Coupe-JH4NA2131WT000070-listed-as-%E2%80%9CZanardi-Prototype%E2%80%9D-in-the-wiki?p=1843189&viewfull=1#post1843189
I have pictures of the same parts in my thread. You need the photobucket plugin from chrome to see them though.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/187006-McDork%E2%80%99s-1998-Coupe-JH4NA2131WT000070-listed-as-%E2%80%9CZanardi-Prototype%E2%80%9D-in-the-wiki?p=1843189&viewfull=1#post1843189
The short answer is that I don't have a blasting cabinet, so I can't recycle the expensive media. The longer answer is that I tried soda on the calipers during my 1991 rebuild and it was ineffective. The wire wheel on the grinder was much, much faster than even blasting and left a great surface for paint adhesion. Any tough little spots got hit with a smaller wire wheel like the one on the drill, or just with a small handheld wire brush. It worked so well and was so fast that I decided not to build a cabinet. If I did this as a service, I would invest in a blast cabinet and use the proper media. But, this is probably the last set I'll do, unless Mrs. Honcho gets a NSX too.
As for the horn button, I am thinking of using an enamel from model making. I have an airbrush that I use for that and they make some nice stainless steel and titanium shaded paints for jet engine exhausts. I have some for an F-4G Wild Weasel I'm working on, so I'll paint a few plastic spoons to see how close I can get to the knob. Should be a fun little project.
So I just got sucked into your thread, Chris and it looks like we are doing almost the same thing. It's funny- I don't recall the brace being undercoated on my 91. In any event, I'll try your trick with my pressure washer and the bug/tar remover. I'm going to have a lot of questions when it comes time for paint next year as to what to remove and put back during which step. I don't have a lift, so will be doing subframe removal Shawn-style with an engine hoist. I need to have the front bay painted Imola, so I'm going to have to remove all of the stuff in there- it looks like you left all of yours in during the repaint.
Honcho, have you considered just getting rebuilt calipers and sending yours in for the core refund? I recently got a set of fronts from Rock Auto.
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Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk
DIY rebuilding is a much better solution, OEM seal kits are much higher quality than garbage rebuilds from Rockauto. I bought reman ITR calipers from Rockauto a few years ago and ended up having to rebuild them anyways after one of the seals blew out because it didn’t fit correctly. I tore them all down and found all sorts of problems with the seals, stick with OEM if you don’t want to get burned.
But yeah that’s understandable Honcho, it takes more than soda blasting to clean brake calipers.
But yeah that’s understandable Honcho, it takes more than soda blasting to clean brake calipers.
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Per the below, I prefer to do it myself. It's not that hard and I can guarantee a good result. I'll figure out a way to get that piston out. Just need a better way to seal the nozzle to the caliper- the air keeps blowing back at me!
Yes, I love Rock Auto for many things, but not for rebuilding. Brakes are a critical safety item, so I do it myself and can make sure it is 100% correct. I can also fully recommend the Centric rebuild seal kits. They are fantastic.
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I didn't need paint the front and rear bays of my 98, as I wasn't changing the color. However, I did a color change on my first NSX, no lift pre-shawnstyle.
It's too late to tell you to buy a black NSX. So, as consolation advice I'd tell you to buy a lift. You can sell it when your done (but you won't).:wink: Even a maxjax would be so worth the money and you don't need 11' ceilings.
You could technically rebuild the "rebuilt" calipers to your standards. I've done that with a BMW caliper that the Piston was frozen like yours and I couldn't get it out with compressed air. I replaced with new OEM seals and inspected the Pistons. Basically I paid for them to do all the cleaning for me.
Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk
Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk
Already did that lol- that was the plan for the 91. NA2 NSX-R full conversion with a Champ White paint job. Ultimately, I decided to keep that car black. Black wouldn't work for this project because the S-Zero did not have a black engine bay and front bay like the R. It is all body color, so I have to go further on the strip down. I noticed on your color change what looks like sanding in the wheel wells. Did you do this by hand or with a power tool? Did you do the prep sanding yourself? I'm leaning that way...
Call me a masochist, but I love the refinishing process. The VHT products are excellent and, with proper prep and baking, fully stand up to track temps with no chipping or discoloration. The calipers on Will's 91 are still as bright red as the day I painted them. I'm just pissed about the stuck piston lol. But, I'll get it out.
Brake Overhaul 04
Success!
The condition of the pistons and seals was remarkably good. Testament to the quality of Honda's parts and design. The 36 mm piston was flawless after cleanup.
The 40 mm piston had some rust staining near the back of the piston.
More concerning was this pitting near the rear of the machined surface. It may be ok, as I don't think the piston ever slides that far forward. Have to check with [MENTION=25737]Kaz-kzukNA1[/MENTION].
Once the caliper is scrubbed clean with the wire brush, I hit it with brake cleaner. Then, I wipe down the entire caliper with rubbing alcohol. Then, another heavy hit of brake cleaner. From this point forward, I do not handle the caliper without gloves, as finger oil can cause paint adhesion issues later.
Masking begins.
VHT white primer going on. I try to minimize the time between the final brake cleaner spray and painting. 2-3 light coats of primer. I let this dry overnight and will flip it over to hit the other side tonight.
Now for the important Prime question. I can paint these either gloss black or brushed aluminum. The wheels will be a shade of the JDM gunmetal color (Washi Gray Metallic). What would look better under that wheel? Silver or black? I can't decide.
Success!
The condition of the pistons and seals was remarkably good. Testament to the quality of Honda's parts and design. The 36 mm piston was flawless after cleanup.
The 40 mm piston had some rust staining near the back of the piston.
More concerning was this pitting near the rear of the machined surface. It may be ok, as I don't think the piston ever slides that far forward. Have to check with [MENTION=25737]Kaz-kzukNA1[/MENTION].
Once the caliper is scrubbed clean with the wire brush, I hit it with brake cleaner. Then, I wipe down the entire caliper with rubbing alcohol. Then, another heavy hit of brake cleaner. From this point forward, I do not handle the caliper without gloves, as finger oil can cause paint adhesion issues later.
Masking begins.
VHT white primer going on. I try to minimize the time between the final brake cleaner spray and painting. 2-3 light coats of primer. I let this dry overnight and will flip it over to hit the other side tonight.
Now for the important Prime question. I can paint these either gloss black or brushed aluminum. The wheels will be a shade of the JDM gunmetal color (Washi Gray Metallic). What would look better under that wheel? Silver or black? I can't decide.
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Christmas from Japan
A huge box came today from the NSX Shop in Japan. While I was waiting for the primer coat to dry on the caliper before the next coat, I decided to open it up. I felt like a kid at Christmas time! Here are some highlights.
The real deal.
Imola Orange washer nozzles. These will replace the chopped up disasters currently on the car.
New tow hook cover, since the one on the car currently is- you guessed it- epoxied in place. My first look at the original Imola Orange YR-514P. I've never seen it in person, as the only Imola cars I've seen are the 2002+ NSX models with "New Imola Orange Pearl" YR-536P. YR-514P is a metallic basecoat with clear, where YR-536P is a metallic tricoat, using a tinted clearcoat. Sort of like the New Formula Red.
I was just so excited to see it for real that I had to take it over to the car to get an idea. I think Mrs. Honcho was right. This will be better than just another NH-0 NSX-R clone.
LOL I don't know what "Kusakai with Old Stage" is, but it just ooozes JDM! I was geeking out so much, I almost forgot to paint the brake caliper.
Lots more in the box, including a new coolant header tank, Type-S tank cover, correct NSX driver wiper blade, tons of bolts and brake parts, etc. More to come. I'm running out of room in the garage with all the basement stuff up here...
A huge box came today from the NSX Shop in Japan. While I was waiting for the primer coat to dry on the caliper before the next coat, I decided to open it up. I felt like a kid at Christmas time! Here are some highlights.
The real deal.
Imola Orange washer nozzles. These will replace the chopped up disasters currently on the car.
New tow hook cover, since the one on the car currently is- you guessed it- epoxied in place. My first look at the original Imola Orange YR-514P. I've never seen it in person, as the only Imola cars I've seen are the 2002+ NSX models with "New Imola Orange Pearl" YR-536P. YR-514P is a metallic basecoat with clear, where YR-536P is a metallic tricoat, using a tinted clearcoat. Sort of like the New Formula Red.
I was just so excited to see it for real that I had to take it over to the car to get an idea. I think Mrs. Honcho was right. This will be better than just another NH-0 NSX-R clone.
LOL I don't know what "Kusakai with Old Stage" is, but it just ooozes JDM! I was geeking out so much, I almost forgot to paint the brake caliper.
Lots more in the box, including a new coolant header tank, Type-S tank cover, correct NSX driver wiper blade, tons of bolts and brake parts, etc. More to come. I'm running out of room in the garage with all the basement stuff up here...
Attachments
You can't go wrong with Black imo.
How'd you end up getting the piston out?
How'd you end up getting the piston out?
I am thinking the same thing, but drifting back to the silver.
I remembered my trick from the first rebuild a few years ago- wrap the blow gun nozzle in masking tape. It makes a good seal against the caliper and allows a lot more air pressure. It popped the 36 mm right out, using a c-clamp on the 40 mm.
A huge box came today from the NSX Shop in Japan. While I was waiting for the primer coat to dry on the caliper before the next coat, I decided to open it up. I felt like a kid at Christmas time! Here are some highlights.
The real deal.
Lots more in the box, including a new coolant header tank, Type-S tank cover, correct NSX driver wiper blade, tons of bolts and brake parts, etc. More to come. I'm running out of room in the garage with all the basement stuff up here...
maybe that is an epi-pen mixed with old spice...........:tongue:
Pictures are slow to load for me also. Thought it was just our pathetic internet service!
FWIW, if you're going to painting a lot of parts I would suggest some good pre-paint cleaner that you get from the automotive paint stores. A gallon lasts a long time and I think it works better than brake cleaner. Having had the displeasure of getting a drop brake cleaner in my eye before it's a win win.
Black wouldn't work for this project because the S-Zero did not have a black engine bay and front bay like the R. It is all body color, so I have to go further on the strip down.
I'm pretty sure that my Monte Carlo Blue Pearl Type-S has a black engine bay. I'll post some pics when I'm back at home (overseas at the moment).
I'm just painting the brake calipers. I'm going to have the body shop do all the painting on this car, since I don't have the skill or the equipment to DIY. I am going to do all the disassembly and final assembly like you did, though. Should save several thousand $$$, since there is probably 20 to 40 hours of work on that alone in the car (at $100/hr, etc.)
That's interesting. I think the Imola Type-S Zero Honda used as a press car back in 97 had body color in the bays. I wonder if the black bay was an option on the Custom Order Plan? In any event, I have a red bay, so no choice for me- I have to paint it!
