Honcho's Long Road to Imola Type-S Zero

[Honcho]

So what's the big secret here? Everyone says this shaft is a different length, but did you adjust the length somehow to match the M/T version or is it okay just to re-use it without modifications?

Reusing seems to be the consensus and there isn't any reported issues. In theory it might slam into the diff, but in practice there is probably enough tolerance for the longer shaft of the AT.

In effect, the AT drive shaft is 5mm longer and the AT intermediate shaft is 7-10mm longer....why Honda couldn't specify the the AT (or MT) to be in same relative position as each other is strange.

FYI: I find there is lot of "float" of the axle within the CV joints...so I'm not really concerned.

The actual metal shaft is different, but as [MENTION=5430]drew[/MENTION] mentions, it's not that much longer. The shaft length "adjustment" described in the shop manual is for the purpose of removing the correct amount of air from the boots. Basically you affix the large bands, compress the shaft to the specified length to push out the air, and then affix the small bands. Kaz does it little smarter- he fixes both bands, but puts a small straw under the small bands. He then compresses the shaft (blowing the air out of the straw) and pulls out the straws. That's how I'm doing it.

There is a lot of "slop" in the joints, which is why most people re-use the AT shaft in the MT. But, you are taking up some of the slack to make the length fit, so it is possible you are losing some suspension movement. Also, Kaz notes that you may struggle to release the shaft during service because the extra length makes it harder to swing the axle end away from the transmission case. I wanted to avoid these two issues, so I bought a used shaft out of a 1999 MT and will refurbish it.

That looks real good to me, I'd personally re-use it. I'm sure new ones will be discontinued soon if they aren't already, maybe you could hold it in the OEM bag as a collectors item like the tall oil filters but even better

Reuse the existing cooler. It might outlast the vehicle and is that not that difficult to replace. Keep your sealed one, it might be worth a small fortune in the near future.

I'm leaning this way too. Though, I'm keeping the cooler for me, along with other parts. Once this project is complete, I will start stockpiling parts for the life of the car (TB/WP kit, CV boots, door seals, brake pistons, etc.). I have it on fairly good authority that Honda will continue parts support for the Gen1 NSX through 2040. But after that, almost all of it will stop. I want to make sure I have the critical OEM parts that will require service in 10-20 years.

 

[docjohn]

So what is your estimated completion date?

 

[Honcho]

So what is your estimated completion date?

The original "first start" estimate was September 2020, but that assumed the car would return from paint in July. With the paint delays, it might be early 2021. I may have found a new paint shop, but they are booked 2-3 months out. :frown:

 

[Honcho]

General Update

After significant effort and time, I have found a new paint shop! They were willing to take on the job despite the fact that the panels are already halfway complete, and are willing to use my PPG Deltron instead of the Glasurit they normally shoot. That's the good news. The bad news is that they have almost 70 cars in process, so it will be at least a month (more likely two months) before they can start. Though, they said they can turn it around rather quickly since I am doing the reassembly myself and my current painter did more of the prep already. So, the plan now is to try to get the engine and transmission fully complete so that when the car comes back, I can assemble it quickly.

 

[NSX_n00b]

After significant effort and time, I have found a new paint shop! They were willing to take on the job despite the fact that the panels are already halfway complete, and are willing to use my PPG Deltron instead of the Glasurit they normally shoot. That's the good news. The bad news is that they have almost 70 cars in process, so it will be at least a month (more likely two months) before they can start. Though, they said they can turn it around rather quickly since I am doing the reassembly myself and my current painter did more of the prep already. So, the plan now is to try to get the engine and transmission fully complete so that when the car comes back, I can assemble it quickly.

WooHoo!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NSX-COLORADO]

Wow.. nice work. thanks for documenting. Nice to see it coming along.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 20

Catching up on the blog. Removed the rear head and was very pleased with the condition. Almost no wear at the journals and you can still see the cross-hatching in the cylinders. All of the head bolts were extremely tight (a good sign) with no unusual marks or discoloration. The head gasket was totally intact and gently lifted off the block in one piece- more testament to the gentle usage conditions of a AT car. Some light corrosion and scuff marks in some of the cylinders, but nothing concerning.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 21

Removed the front head. It was terribly dirty from all of the PCV blowby and only covering about 2,000 miles since 2012. All of this will be cleaned by the machine shop, but the best way to keep it clean is to drive your NSX at least once per week on a long, highway cruise. The circulating hot engine oil will emulsify and remove this varnish.







Like the rear bank, you can see some light scuffing in the cylinders, but it is not unusual for 137,000 miles. Compression was testing to brand-new spec, so I'm not concerned. Also, you can see some crusty carbon bits that fell into the cylinder during removal of the head- important to vacuum these out and thoroughly clean the cylinders to ensure no foreign material remains. Time to begin cleaning and prepping the block.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 22

Closeup of the dirty state of the front valve train. Lots of smelly black sludge inside the oil passages and also all over the heads. This will all be cleaned by the hot circulating chemical bath at the machine shop, but it is good evidence that NSX owners should drive their cars as much as possible.

 

[Honcho]

Weight Reduction – S Zero Conversion 37

Type S-Zero wheels have arrived. 16 inch fronts and 17 inch rears with custom offsets to push the wheels out a bit to make it more flush with the body. Washi Grey because S Zero. Huge thanks to Marc at Mita Motorsports for making this happen. I've been bugging him about doing a 16/17 set for almost a year and he was gracious enough to say OK even though almost everyone wants bigger rims these days. No more trying to vulture a set off of Yahoo Auctions Japan for me!

 

[NSX_n00b]

Removed the front head. It was terribly dirty from all of the PCV blowby and only covering about 2,000 miles since 2012. All of this will be cleaned by the machine shop, but the best way to keep it clean is to drive your NSX at least once per week on a long, highway cruise. The circulating hot engine oil will emulsify and remove this varnish. Like the rear bank, you can see some light scuffing in the cylinders, but it is not unusual for 137,000 miles. Compression was testing to brand-new spec, so I'm not concerned. Also, you can see some crusty carbon bits that fell into the cylinder during removal of the head- important to vacuum these out and thoroughly clean the cylinders to ensure no foreign material remains. Time to begin cleaning and prepping the block.

You forgot to mention all the fun we had with the coolant left in the water jacket :biggrin:

 

[Honcho]

You forgot to mention all the fun we had with the coolant left in the water jacket :biggrin:

If I end up in hell, I'm pretty sure it will just be me getting Chinese water torture but with Honda Type II coolant. I seriously get a panic response when I smell it. I think I need therapy.

 

[cmc140]

Is that cooked on varnish really from the cars not being driven or is it from conventional motor oil rather than synthetic? I've had the cam covers off of a number or NSXs that don't get driven much and have only seen that once.

 

[Honcho]

Is that cooked on varnish really from the cars not being driven or is it from conventional motor oil rather than synthetic? I've had the cam covers off of a number or NSXs that don't get driven much and have only seen that once.

The varnish is mostly from the PCV blowby gas, which is why you only see it on the front head on NA1 NSXs. This engine has had Acura full synth oil changes since at least 1999 (it was a 1-owner car from 99-18), so it isn't the oil. As I understand it (mostly from reading Kaz's blog lol), the varnish results from lots of short-distance trips and/or lack of frequent driving. Basically, the engine never warms up enough to burn off all of the PCV gas, so the front head gets coated in an oily film. Then, the lack of driving allows the film to dry and stick to the components. It doesn't really affect the operation of the engine (though it could cause issues with the VTEC system and camshaft lubrication if it builds up enough), but it looks bad and smells terrible lol.

 

[cmc140]

The varnish is mostly from the PCV blowby gas, which is why you only see it on the front head on NA1 NSXs. This engine has had Acura full synth oil changes since at least 1999 (it was a 1-owner car from 99-18), so it isn't the oil. As I understand it (mostly from reading Kaz's blog lol), the varnish results from lots of short-distance trips and/or lack of frequent driving. Basically, the engine never warms up enough to burn off all of the PCV gas, so the front head gets coated in an oily film. Then, the lack of driving allows the film to dry and stick to the components. It doesn't really affect the operation of the engine (though it could cause issues with the VTEC system and camshaft lubrication if it builds up enough), but it looks bad and smells terrible lol.

Interesting, thanks for taking the time to elaborate. It's fun to follow along with your build.
Nice work as always!

 

[Big McLargeHuge]

If I end up in hell, I'm pretty sure it will just be me getting Chinese water torture but with Honda Type II coolant. I seriously get a panic response when I smell it. I think I need therapy.

Same for me but with the smell of MTF . Work still stopped on the repaint?

 

[Honcho]

Interesting, thanks for taking the time to elaborate. It's fun to follow along with your build.
Nice work as always!

Thanks! I still bow down to your project though. Here's the rear head on the left and the front head on the right.

 

[Honcho]

Same for me but with the smell of MTF . Work still stopped on the repaint?

Nope, she goes in on Oct 5.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 23

Dropped off the cylinder heads at the machinist and went over the build plan with him. He was pleased that I was using OEM Honda valves and commented that he prefers them over most aftermarket options. It was a really cool shop- they had all kinds of heads in there- lots of 2JZ, B18, BMW, and tons of Evos (they specialize in Evo heads apparently). He was not complimentary of BMW and said their heads were junk compared to Honda lol. Also saw a Pratt & Whitney 14-cylinder air cooled Wasp engine for an air racing plane. Only down side is they are at a nearly 4-month delay. Lots of time to reassemble the rest of the car then...

On to the engine refresh. Special thanks to [MENTION=33247]MotorMouth93[/MENTION], who warned me not to rotate the engine until I removed the oil pan. He was right: despite draining the oil prior to engine removal last winter, almost 1/2 a quart had drained back down into the pan. The oil pan is boxed and ready to ship to [MENTION=9035]titaniumdave[/MENTION] for baffle and oil temp sensor installation. Despite removing the pan, rotating the engine resulted in this:

A mixture of engine oil and coolant.




Began the inspection and cleaning of the oil pan deck surface. This surface must be completely, surgically clean to prevent oil leaks, which are common on the NSX. Already noticed way too much Hondabond used at the seams for the oil pump and main seal plates. Still, it is hard to complain because this oil pan gasket never leaked a drop.




It was so bad that there were pieces of dried Hondabond in the oil pickup screen and at the bottom of the oil pan. Not good. At least the screen did its job.





[MENTION=34522]NSX_n00b[/MENTION] and I also picked up all of the body panels at the previous painter's shop. I was pleased to see he was feeling well. Very sad circumstances.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 24

Began the process of carefully scraping away the old Hondabond using the plastic scraper. While not as critical as the cylinder deck side, it is still important not to gouge the soft aluminum surface. Very, very important to go slowly and ensure that no Hondabond debris falls into the lower rotating assembly. Scrape and brush it out toward the outside of the surface.



Experimented with using a solid brass wire brush to clean the surface and noticed these scratches after cleaning. Because of the previous contamination, I can't tell if my wire brush caused it or if they were caused by a previous dealer tech cleaning (likely the latter). I did not want to take a chance though and went to the fine grade steel wool. It takes longer, but leaves a smooth surface. I used Simple Green HD as my lubricant/degreaser.





Cleaned to this level using the above method. This surface will be wiped three times with acetone prior to installing the oil pan.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 25

With the oil pan deck complete, moved on to cleaning the engine block.



It's the small details. Spent an extra 20 minutes cleaning the front block drain plug to this level.

 

[MotorMouth93]

This surface will be wiped three times with acetone prior to installing the oil pan.

You gotta pump those numbers up those are rookie numbers.

Are you pulling the oil pump and rear seal carrier too?

 

[Honcho]

You gotta pump those numbers up those are rookie numbers.

Are you pulling the oil pump and rear seal carrier too?

LOL Ok, I will wipe it TEN TIMES with acetone!

I'm kind of torn about the rear seal carrier. I have a seal puller, so I can remove the seals without removing the plates. But, the service manual says to remove the plate to install the rear seal. The OCD part of me wants to do that, as it will give me a chance to clean that area better. But, as it is installed right now, the oil pan gasket does not leak. I'm a little worried if I re-install the plate, it might cause a leak, since it is doubtful I will get it back on in the exact same orientation. I'm going to leave the oil pump on there, as I have no need to service it.

 

[stuntman]

Check out getting some parts vapor blasted. It's WAY easier. I did my entire block:

https://motoiq.com/vapor-blasting-restoring-metal-to-better-than-new/

 

[Honcho]

Check out getting some parts vapor blasted. It's WAY easier. I did my entire block:

That's amazing! My heads will look like that when back form the machine shop, but I'm stuck doing the engine block by hand, since I don't want to disassemble the short block. I got sage advice from LarryB many, many years ago not to disturb the short block unless there was a very good reason to do so. BTW those iron sleeves are gorgeous!