Remember, we went to Iraq to get that oil and the gas prices haven't even gotten any better. 
Gas price forecast
- Thread starter NSXLNT
- Start date
NetViper said:
I wasn't necessarily suggesting the hybrid accord is the ultimate in fuel economy, I just threw it out there because a close friend of mine owns one andhe regularly gets MPG in the mid to 30s. The NSX is not too bad on gas on the highway, but his hybrid Accord is considerably better.
Aside from that, the point is, if you own a high performance two-seat sports car (or an SUV, or anything else with MPG ratings in the teens or 20s) you have little room to be whining about gas prices. There are much more fuel efficient vehicles available. There is no debate about that.
I would also be interested to hear exactly what you think the President should be doing about gas prices.
ccns23 said:
I'm no fan of high gas prices but I'm bewildered by this comment.
If you believe in the free market economy and the capitalist system then what's the problem with oil companies making as much money as they can so long as they're not breaking any laws? As a shareholder, wouldn't you want the company to continue to exhibit record profits? Why should they be treated any differently than say Starbucks charing $5 for a cup of coffee or Bentley charging $200K for a car? So long as we as consumers continue to belly up to the beast and buy and drive fuel inefficient vehicles, we're going to reap what we sow.
Da Hapa said:
Given that line of thinking, why wouldn't the govt. allow China to buy Unocal. Obviously oil is NOT treated the same as other free market products.
Osiris_x11
Gold Member, Moderator: Marketplace
DONYMO said:
It's not just the shock at the pump, but rather the cost of other consumer goods generally go up steadily... never to go down again. The big perk of the US is it's quality of life based on affordability of consumables and ability to maintain a rather nice lifestyle w/o being privileged, affluent, or "connected". :redface:
Isn't it great that when the airlines, car manufacturers and others were making record profits as the oil corporations are now... they didn't give much of a damn about the general consumer. Yet when things turned for them, ala' Chapter_11 or danger of going bankrupt, it was our dollars (from our taxes given as govt loans, credits, grants, concessions, relief...) that gave them a lifeline and another chance. Yea, kinda messed up... ehhh.
sykikchimp said:
There's a multitude of reasons. Some of which are valid (ensuring that a foreign nations gain even more control over energy) and some of which are not (politics, national pride and to a lesser extent probably some ethnocentrism).
You're correct that oil isn't treated the same as other free market products but neither are items which are used for the national defense (armorment, weapons, clothing contracts, etc.). But my point was that just as Boeing and Northrop Grumman bid out contracts for things like joint fighters with the idea being to maximize shareholder value, so should Exxon Mobil be allowed to price their product. They take the risk of exploration, refinement, transportation, etc. They should get the reward.
Again, I'm no big fan of big oil. But I'm a capitalist and I can't think of any good reason why the gov't should start limiting how much $ oil companies can make. If for nothing else, it would merely cause even more accounting games than we've already got being played.
I dislike that it now costs $25 to fill up my CRX and $70 to fill up my van. What is worse is the overall drain on the economy due to high energy costs. That said, I believe in capitalism, and I look forward to seeing the next great wave in automotive technology that another fuel shortage is likely to spur. The greatest technological leaps in automotive technology have been in response to energy crisis. Turbocharging, EFI, aerodynamics, etc. all were either developed or refined due to high energy costs. At $1 / gallon new technology isn't on the radar. At $2 / gallon it becomes a "someday" concern. At $3 / gallon real inovation can start to become economically viable. At $5 / gallon we will start seeing true 100 mpg cars become reality.
Even modern hybrids are only scratching the surface. A 1984 CRX HF gets better mileage than all of the hybrids except for the Insight, which is only marginally better. 20 years of developement should get us more than that, but with cheap gas there was no incentive.
Also, as performance enthusiasts, anything that leads to better efficiency should excite us. The same technology that allows 25% less fule to go a given distance can generally be reconfigured to give 25% more power with the same amount of fuel. Without cars like the original CVCC, the CRX, etc. there could have never been an NSX. The same is true for the economy cars of today and the performance cars of tomorrow.
Even modern hybrids are only scratching the surface. A 1984 CRX HF gets better mileage than all of the hybrids except for the Insight, which is only marginally better. 20 years of developement should get us more than that, but with cheap gas there was no incentive.
Also, as performance enthusiasts, anything that leads to better efficiency should excite us. The same technology that allows 25% less fule to go a given distance can generally be reconfigured to give 25% more power with the same amount of fuel. Without cars like the original CVCC, the CRX, etc. there could have never been an NSX. The same is true for the economy cars of today and the performance cars of tomorrow.
All those feeling put out about today's 'gas prices' should live in Europe. There's a reason the Scooters, Smart Cars, and bicycles still thrive.
I get a real kick out the guy that lives next door and is a confessed socialist/communist, he drives his Prius up the street slow enough that the gas engine never kicks in so he can be really cool with his electric car, he had a very disturbed look on his face when he found out that the Toyota ECHO gets better mileage and doesn't have a huge battery that is not financially viable to recycle and therefore sits in landfills and pollutes the earth...JZ
Bigglezworth said:Funny how Calgary has higher prices than all of the areas surrounding them isn't it.It's not like we're the oil capital of Canada or anything.
I had suspected Edmonton and the like were less. Thanks for confirming.
I drove past a few gas stations today and the price on the sign was 97.9/ L CND for regular unleaded ..
I am not sure if the president gets vacation like we do. He is never completely off. We can just shut off our the cell phone and beeper. I am sure he still attend certain amount of business affairs everyday. It is a 24/7 job. Some of us get more vacation time than the president.NetViper said:
I do have a question on gas price. How much tax is in the gas price? I think there are other charges besides the regular sales tax, right?
Old data, but you get the idea: http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gas_taxes_by_state_2002.htmlfannsx said:
Yes there are gasoline taxes that are not the same as "sales tax", here in washington the new "governer" (that said during the election she would not raise taxes) pushed thru a serious gas tax hike that would only pay for half of the projects that were listed in the budget. so basicly making it so unless the tax payers wanted 1/2 done projects in 4 years we would have to raise the gas tax agian..........Your lieing cheating government at work :smile:
Thanks. No wonder NJ still has the cheapest price around the Northeast region.Ojas said:
I had heard that if you take the taxes out, we pay more for gas than any other country. I have no idea if that is true or not.
ie. If Georgia is 30 cents/gallon and gas is $2.00 per gallon, we are paying 70 cents per gallon.
Canada costs a lot more for a gallon than the US, but they have WAY more taxes included in the per gallon cost.
Anyone have that info?
ie. If Georgia is 30 cents/gallon and gas is $2.00 per gallon, we are paying 70 cents per gallon.
Canada costs a lot more for a gallon than the US, but they have WAY more taxes included in the per gallon cost.
Anyone have that info?
Qué?
I'm not following this math. Gasoline is taxed per gallon - it is not based on sales price. If you put 10 gallons in your car and your state taxes at 30 cents per gallon, you just paid $3 in tax regardless of whether you paid $1.25 per gallon or $5.00 per gallon.NetViper said:
Everyone everywhere pays the same price for gasoline, as it is a fungible commodity, just like oil. It's traded on commodities markets. However, localities levy taxes on top of it and that's the reason for the price variations around the world.
The world is coming up on a condition called "Peak Oil," which will fundamentally change all the assumptions in the "American Dream."
Enjoy your NSX while you still can. There is a big storm coming and the signs are around us. The first omen I saw was the Porsche Cayenne. This was before I heard about Peak Oil or knew much about derivatives and things like the LTCM and JPM bailouts. Something just struck me about the Cayenne, just that it was patently absurd on its face. Some things are self-evident and when you see them, kind of like when doormen are giving stock tips, you realize it's time to head for the hills. I knew at that moment that the SUV craze had hit peak and was headed for catastrophe. When this shebang bottoms out, you won't be able to give away one of these things and the companies who've bet heavily on them and who are relying on them for significant profits, are virtually doomed. Those companies include all the domestics and even Toyota.
As far as oil goes, it is never going down again. Our only hope for it to do so is the invention of sustainable fusion power. Without this home run, we are in for irreversible sustained global recession. We will not be able to outrace the loss of oil supply with gains in efficiency or increases in other power sources. Even if we keep pace, we do not have economic growth, we have stagflation. At some point, we will no longer be able to keep pace, because oil supply after Peak will ALWAYS decline and the energy value lost will have to be replaced. Nevermind actually replacing it plus some, and exponentially growing.
The proliferation of supercars should be a sign too...it's a sort of presaging of an era of extreme decadence. History has shown that consistency can support at most one or two of these things out there, dream cars, poster cars. Now, there are probably 10 and Audi and Lexus and everyone else wants to do one too. This type of superlux saturation portends bad things, it surely does now as much as the insane levels of HP in the late 1960s did then.
The world is coming up on a condition called "Peak Oil," which will fundamentally change all the assumptions in the "American Dream."
Enjoy your NSX while you still can. There is a big storm coming and the signs are around us. The first omen I saw was the Porsche Cayenne. This was before I heard about Peak Oil or knew much about derivatives and things like the LTCM and JPM bailouts. Something just struck me about the Cayenne, just that it was patently absurd on its face. Some things are self-evident and when you see them, kind of like when doormen are giving stock tips, you realize it's time to head for the hills. I knew at that moment that the SUV craze had hit peak and was headed for catastrophe. When this shebang bottoms out, you won't be able to give away one of these things and the companies who've bet heavily on them and who are relying on them for significant profits, are virtually doomed. Those companies include all the domestics and even Toyota.
As far as oil goes, it is never going down again. Our only hope for it to do so is the invention of sustainable fusion power. Without this home run, we are in for irreversible sustained global recession. We will not be able to outrace the loss of oil supply with gains in efficiency or increases in other power sources. Even if we keep pace, we do not have economic growth, we have stagflation. At some point, we will no longer be able to keep pace, because oil supply after Peak will ALWAYS decline and the energy value lost will have to be replaced. Nevermind actually replacing it plus some, and exponentially growing.
The proliferation of supercars should be a sign too...it's a sort of presaging of an era of extreme decadence. History has shown that consistency can support at most one or two of these things out there, dream cars, poster cars. Now, there are probably 10 and Audi and Lexus and everyone else wants to do one too. This type of superlux saturation portends bad things, it surely does now as much as the insane levels of HP in the late 1960s did then.
Re: Qué?
Maybe I did a poor job in trying to explain.
What I heard is that the actual price we pay per gallon for gas minus taxes is the highest of any country. I have no idea if that is true.
Ojas said:
Maybe I did a poor job in trying to explain.
What I heard is that the actual price we pay per gallon for gas minus taxes is the highest of any country. I have no idea if that is true.
NetViper said:
http://www.petro-canada.ca/eng/prodserv/fuels/8741.htm
i found thit link ....this is what we pay for the taxes on a liter of gas..keep in mind that the info was gathered on March 1, 2005
So that says CDN taxes are roughly 50 cents per Liter. A US gallon is roughly 4 liters. So that would be $2 bucks per gallon in tax. Is that right?
You read correctly. :frown:
OK. So following that logic.
CDN price is roughly $1 a liter now.
Converted to gallons. $4.00 per gallon. CDN
So the price of gas is $2.00 and the tax is $2.00 CDN.
or in US funds at todays exchange rate:
$1.66 per gallon and $1.66 tax. (total of $3.32 per US gallon)
US price in Savananh is 2.33 a gallon.
So the price of gas is $2.01 and the tax is 32 cents.
So we in the US are paying roughly 35 cents more per gallon for actual gasoline.
In other states that would vary, but mostly more!
CDN price is roughly $1 a liter now.
Converted to gallons. $4.00 per gallon. CDN
So the price of gas is $2.00 and the tax is $2.00 CDN.
or in US funds at todays exchange rate:
$1.66 per gallon and $1.66 tax. (total of $3.32 per US gallon)
US price in Savananh is 2.33 a gallon.
So the price of gas is $2.01 and the tax is 32 cents.
So we in the US are paying roughly 35 cents more per gallon for actual gasoline.
In other states that would vary, but mostly more!
Yellow Rose
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Why the diatribe of "splitting hairs" over gasoline taxes?
As liftshard more than accurately presents, the price of crude oil....thus the price of gasoline....will only go up, never down for substantial time periods until our dieing days on this planet have arrived.
Post how you wish all you want that you do not like rising gasoline prices, but it is a fact of life. Another fact of life is that.....we will all die; however, I don't see posts of "I don't like knowing that I will eventually die." So why all the commotion about gasoline prices?
To put this into another perspective.....who here complains about the price of a gallon of milk or a quart of orange juice or a jug of laundry detergent or your favorite cologne that perhaps costs $50 for just a few ounces or a juicy hamburger that can easily cost five bucks but you can make it at home for about two bucks? I haven’t seen those complaints, have you? Do you folks not put things into perspective with respect to life's grand scheme of things?
Obviously not. Sorry Lud, just calling it like it is.
As liftshard more than accurately presents, the price of crude oil....thus the price of gasoline....will only go up, never down for substantial time periods until our dieing days on this planet have arrived.
Post how you wish all you want that you do not like rising gasoline prices, but it is a fact of life. Another fact of life is that.....we will all die; however, I don't see posts of "I don't like knowing that I will eventually die."
So why all the commotion about gasoline prices? To put this into another perspective.....who here complains about the price of a gallon of milk or a quart of orange juice or a jug of laundry detergent or your favorite cologne that perhaps costs $50 for just a few ounces or a juicy hamburger that can easily cost five bucks but you can make it at home for about two bucks? I haven’t seen those complaints, have you? Do you folks not put things into perspective with respect to life's grand scheme of things?
Obviously not. Sorry Lud, just calling it like it is.Today's related report:
up costs throughout southwestern Connecticut
" Play the video (08/11/05) NORWALK - Southwestern Connecticut residents do not have to go to the gas pump to take a hit in the wallet. The increasing cost of gasoline is now starting to affect other local services.
In Fairfield, Primo Pizza has been talking about charging an extra 50 cents for deliveries, but for now they're still free. There is one increase, however, that will affect a large number of commuters. Starting September 1, the transit authority is going to increase bus fares by 25 cents.
Analysts say just about everything has to be transported, whether it's a service or a product. While some services are definitely increasing in price, a few other companies are doing everything they can to ....."
The photo which was part of this web news blurb showed premium gas @ $3.02.
up costs throughout southwestern Connecticut
" Play the video (08/11/05) NORWALK - Southwestern Connecticut residents do not have to go to the gas pump to take a hit in the wallet. The increasing cost of gasoline is now starting to affect other local services.
In Fairfield, Primo Pizza has been talking about charging an extra 50 cents for deliveries, but for now they're still free. There is one increase, however, that will affect a large number of commuters. Starting September 1, the transit authority is going to increase bus fares by 25 cents.
Analysts say just about everything has to be transported, whether it's a service or a product. While some services are definitely increasing in price, a few other companies are doing everything they can to ....."
The photo which was part of this web news blurb showed premium gas @ $3.02.
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