Future Home Buyer Reality Check!

are these people living on ramen noodles and taking public transport??

city....................home price.............salary
Newport Beach ....$1,362k.................$93k
Greenwich...........$1,129k..................$112k
Palo Alto.............$929k....................$101k
Cupertino............$880k....................$110k
 
believe me, i dont understand it either. the only person with median income in these areas that can buy a house are the ones that already own a house and sell it to help pay for the new one. if you're a first time home buyer with median income, you're simply not buying in those towns.
 
I'd wait if I were you; unless you can get the house for about 30% less than asking. This will absorb the inevitable loss in value the WILL happen in the next 2-5 years...
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The California Realtors have their December numbers out. “Home sales decreased 15.3 percent in December in California compared with the same period a year ago, CAR reported today.”
“‘Year-over-year sales declined in most regions last month,’ said C.A.R. Chief Economist Leslie Appleton-Young. ‘The price picture across the state continues to be mixed. Increases were strongest in urban areas that experienced relatively less new home building or strong economic growth in recent years. Prices were weakest where there has been robust home building activity or in those areas of the state that were popular with second-home buyers.’”
The Press Democrat. “The number of default notices lenders sent to Sonoma County homeowners more than doubled in the fourth quarter of 2006, compared with the same period in 2005, and was the highest in nearly a decade, according to DataQuick.”
“‘We’re in the midst of an adjusting market right now, and we won’t know until spring or summer if this is ominous or not,’ said Marshall Prentice, DataQuick’s president.”
“Just over half of the loans that went into default statewide during the fourth quarter were made between January 2005 and February 2006. So those loans were made to buyers purchasing homes around the time the market was peaking in summer 2005, DataQuick analyst John Karevoll said.”
“‘Just because of the higher-priced homes, that is the product that is in demand in order to qualify,’ said Colleen Oller, real estate loan officer for Exchange Bank. ‘But now we’re seeing a downside to that, especially if they’re needing to sell. The value of those homes is not what they paid for them and they’ve got no equity built up.’”
The Contra Costa Times. “In the last quarter of 2006, about 1,000 more mortgage default notices than last year went out to Contra Costa County homeowners, a 179 percent increase.”
“An additional 700 showed up in Alameda County (a 157 percent uptick) and 500 more (or 163 percent) went out in Solano County, signaling the highest rate of foreclosure activity ever for Solano County and the highest since 1998 for Alameda County, DataQuick reported.”
“Ed Jeffry, a loan consultant in Walnut Creek said that in the past few months four lenders he has used have stopped providing home loans. The quality of applicants has deteriorated, and he is referring many of his clients to bankruptcy attorneys, he said.”
“Many succumbed to the lure of easy home equity or low payments. ‘For so long people have relied on the advice of the guy who used to sell shoes at Payless who now sells loans,’ Jeffry said.”
The Santa Cruz Sentinel. “Mortgage defaults in Santa Cruz County jumped 36 percent last year, part of a statewide trend. ‘It’s crazy out there,’ said Liese Varenkamp, publisher of the Santa Cruz Record. In the first two weeks of the new year, 16 foreclosures have already taken place, up from two last year.”
“‘Look at that difference,’ Varenkamp said, adding the 80 percent of the homes go back to the bank that made the loan.”
“The 37,273 default notices mailed between October and December was up 145 percent compared to 15,196 in the same period in 2005. Most of the default notices were sent to Southern California addresses, with homeowners in Los Angeles County receiving the largest number of notices.”
“About 32 percent of homeowners who had previously been in default lost their homes to foreclosure in the fourth quarter, up from 8 percent in the same quarter of 2005, DataQuick said.”
“The number of foreclosed homes last quarter was 6,078, compared with 874 in the fourth quarter of 2005 and 3,435 in the third quarter of 2006, the firm said.”
Inside Bay Area. “In San Joaquin County, default notices hit a record high. Some 1,293 homeowners received default notices, compared with 464 a year earlier. San Joaquin County’s increase in foreclosure notices is partly linked to speculators who are finding it difficult to sell homes in today’s slowing market, said broker Renee Becker.”
“‘The market has turned, so maybe (speculators) have not been able to sell the homes,’ she said. ‘They are stuck with them.’”
The Sacramento Bee. “Hundreds of Sacramento-area homeowners who missed their first mortgage payments early last year fueled the region’s most dramatic rise in home foreclosures since the 1990s during the fourth quarter of 2006.”
“The 865 fourth-quarter foreclosures compare to 63 the same time last year in Amador, El Dorado, Nevada, Placer, Sacramento, Sutter, Yolo and Yuba counties. ‘What’s the old saying? ‘The chickens are coming home to roost,’ said John Arvanitis, president of Sunrise Vista Mortgage Corp.”
The Merced Sun Star. “In Merced County, homeowners received 466 notices last quarter, up from 118. That’s a rise of 294 percent, second highest in the state. Lenders also warned a record 909 Stanislaus County homeowners in the last three months of 2006 that they are at risk of foreclosure. That’s an increase of 471 percent, highest in the state.”
“Rick Seymour, House Mart branch manager in Merced, said the rush among homeowners to buy into the housing market before they were priced out is a major cause of the foreclosure rate doubling. ‘The problem was that the market turned,’ he said. ‘When they paid top dollar, and then turn around and it’s $30, $40, $50,000 less, they aren’t going to be too motivated to make those payments.’”
“‘If you are making $5,000 a month, you don’t want a $3,000-a-month house payment,’ he said. ‘I knew three years ago that this would happen based on the people who were buying.’”
“Merced County Association of Realtors President Scott Oliver said many Bay Area families already stretched thin invested in Merced County homes and took out questionable loans. ‘I believe that a lot of loans went into place that should not have happened,’ he said. ‘It was inevitable that with the market exploding the way it did that you’d see a high rate of foreclosure.’”
The Fresno Bee. “Foreclosures in Fresno County more than quadrupled in the fourth quarter from last year, a sign, analysts say, that a day of reckoning is coming for thousands of home buyers who used unconventional loans.”
“‘This is just the first wave,’ said Shannon Martin of Mid-State Realty in Fresno. ‘Within the next few years, you’ll see more foreclosures coming.’”
“Locally, real estate agents and credit counselors have seen huge jumps in foreclosure-related activity. Martin, who specializes in selling foreclosed properties for lenders, said such listings he handles climbed from 10 to 70 in the past six months.”
“‘People who bought their houses within the last year or two with zero down are at the high-water mark,’ he said. ‘As the values have decreased, they owe more than the house is worth.’”
“Martin said he has foreclosure listings in all price ranges and geographic areas. ‘I’ve got them from $640,000 to $120,000. They are all over,’ he said.”
“‘It’s no surprise,” said Martha Lucey, VP of a nonprofit credit counseling organization in Fresno. The number of phone calls to her housing credit counselors has increased threefold over the past six months.”
“Many of those families are first-time home buyers who have little or no equity in their houses. Many should have thought twice about buying the house they did, she said. ‘It is wishful thinking,’ she said.”
The Daily News. “In Los Angeles County, 7,445 property owners received default notices, up an annual 113.9 percent. In Ventura County, 794 property owners received notices, up an annual 204.2 percent.”
“Most of the loans that went into default in the 2006 fourth quarter were made from January 2005 to February 2006. The median age for the loans was 15 months. On primary mortgages, homeowners were a median five months behind on their payments when the lender started the default process. And they owed a median $10,555 on a median $324,000 mortgage.”
“‘It’s what we expected,’ said Jack Kyser, vice president and chief economist at the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp.”
The Press Enterprise. “Riverside County saw a nearly 182 percent increase in mortgage defaults compared to the fourth quarter of 2005, while San Bernardino County saw a year-to-year increase of 140 percent. In the fourth quarter, Riverside County recorded 4,631 notices of default. San Bernardino County recorded 3,538 notices.”
“Nancy Herrera, a broker-associate with Corona Mortgage, said she gets requests from people who want to refinance, but who have borrowed to the hilt against the properties and don’t have enough equity.”
“Herrera said in recent years lenders relaxed qualifying guidelines to the point that people with relatively low credit scores could buy a house with 100 percent financing and without documenting their income. She said although lenders have recently begun to tighten their requirements, ‘people are still buying homes they can’t afford.’”
“A nonprofit credit-counseling agency in Riverside handled 10,000 calls about mortgage defaults in 2006, said the organization’s president Dianne Wilkman. ‘And the phone is ringing off the hook this year,’ Wilkman said. Wilkman said nontraditional loans, especially those that originated last year, are driving much of the activity.”
 
Today my wife and I just rented a 1.1 million dollar home 3/2 on the intercostal in Palm Valley Florida with pool, boat lift and 1.75 acres fenced in with a gate at the entrance. The rental price... 1700 a month year lease.:eek: The owner told me the taxes on the property are 18k a year. No brainer IMO to rent here in Florida.
 
wtf, that's what i pay here for rent. can i have it when you're done?

I think we are going to keep it for 2 years. The owner is going to raise it and build a 10 million dollar home like the ones on both sides of it now. So we will be slumming it in the 1.1M house inbetween the multi million dollar homes. :biggrin: 62 degrees here in Florida today 5 degrees in NY. LOL.
 
I'd think a shack on the intercoastal with that much land would be worth over a mil. You are definitely slumming if it's only a 3/2 on the water :).

Now what are you going to do? I can't imagine you being away from all your property while someone else has to deal with all the insanity!!

I'm dropping by next time I visit the parents in Delray Beach :). Which cars did you take down with you?
 
That's a hybrid option ARM, no? The fully indexed rate is still index + margin but the "payment" rate (neg-am) rate is 3-4% below the fully indexed rate instead of 1%.

Still a neg-am, just not as bad, and as such has broader more flexible guidelines. Correct me if I'm wrong...


Actually it is a fully amortizing loan fixed for 30 years. Our Acorn product is specially aimed at first time home buyers which will grant them a 3/4% rate discount over market rates (although anyone with only 1 home can refi into this). We also have hybrid arms as well as the standard option arms. I'll have to double check our guidelines, but I believe our Acorn product can go up to 106%.
 
My suggestion is wait for another 2 to 3 years to see how the market goes then decide what to do next, be patient, RE is top on 2005, normally will take another 5 to 7 years for the buttom.
I have friend rent a house at 2nd ave, Arcadia ( $3100 per month), & he does not want to leave the area & he made 120K/year now.

I really think the market will not drop too much, 10 to 15 % the most due the many oversea buyers & investors come in S. Cali every year, especially on oriental community, Asian like to buy & own real estate property ( against inflation & 10% income return).

You should consider other cisties if you want to buy in near future.
 
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At some point it has to drop. CA is filled with all sorts of young non-home owning techies who can barely afford to live there. When they're ready to buy, they'll all have to move out of state if prices only drop 10-15%. Housing costs need to drop 30-40% for non-home owners to even have a slight chance at getting in. If the average cost of a home is $600K, a 40% drop puts it at $360K. Even if you make $100K a year, $360K is stretching it after taxes and insurance.

Google is going to have to start subsidizing employee housing next.
 
If you currently don't own a house, there is no harm in waiting to buy - well, except for the fact that once we reach equilibrium, there will be competition again for homes - just at lower prices and you may not get the house you want.

Waiting it out to see if the opinion that prices will continue to go down is a fine strategy (BTW I too think prices will go down, but not to the low level that "happy renters" and "fence sitters" are hoping for - those people will miss out on the nice homes and will get their low price - for a crappy house or area).

Now, if you own a home, want to sell and found another home you like, why not sell and make the move? If prices will go down for the next 2-3 years, get as much for your current home as possible and take advantage of the high inventory levels to negotiate a good price on your new home. Don't let life pass you by. Hopefully people in this situation bought before 2003. If you bought after 2003, then might as well stay put.
 
Housing prices in CA won't drop 30-40%. Sellers just won't sell at those prices.

In most areas where young techies are employed, salaries are higher than $100K/yr. Once they get married and/or move in together, they buy houses and $700K isn't an issue anymore.
 
wtf, that's what i pay here for rent. can i have it when you're done?

I'm with with robr. That sounds like an awesome rent deal. I think I'd have to pay at least $3500-$4000 a month for something like that. People are already paying about $2000 a month for regular 1800 sq ft homes. Right now I'm living in a small duplex owned by my father that is about 900-1000 sq ft 60 year old single wall unit 2 bed 1 bath and paying him $700. Only that cheap because I'm I'm his son:biggrin: Our neighbors are paying about $1400 for the second unit.
 
I'd think a shack on the intercoastal with that much land would be worth over a mil. You are definitely slumming if it's only a 3/2 on the water :).

Now what are you going to do? I can't imagine you being away from all your property while someone else has to deal with all the insanity!!

I'm dropping by next time I visit the parents in Delray Beach :). Which cars did you take down with you?


The house is just under 3000 square feet so it is really not a shack just a little dated for my taste but I wanted to be on the water to do some boating and fishing.

I have a crew of people that keep everything going when I am not in NY. I will also be flying back for the first week of every month in the winter as we are only going to use the Florida house for the winter months. I have a pretty nice place in NY for the summer, although I am having a pool house put up at the NY house in the spring so I might just stay in Florida until the cabana is finished and the mess is cleaned up.

I brought the SL55 down this trip but I am also bringing the Cayenne down in March so we can bring the dogs down and tow the boat around.
 
Sorry to say, but there are more Ferrari, Lambo, Mercedes....and expensive cars on the road here to justify ramen noodles and public transportation.

Alot of you hoping that real estate market will crash and the value of homes drop to 30-40% here in Cali....I doubt that this dream will ever come true. Me on the other hand hoping that the market will pick up very shortly...so I am predicting late July of 2007. The news will find everything bad about the market to justify the means....Everytime I turn on to the news, or read the paper, I rarely see good news. All I see are bad news ....and someone died in Iraq...wait! that is bad news too. A home is not just a home, it's also a saving and investment. If you don't have one now, buy one if you can't afford it. Look at comps around the neighborhood that you want, talk to a mortgage broker to see what program fits your need, and be happy. Back in 1997, alot of my friends says to wait....it costs to much. I needed a home, so I bought one....and still holding on to it. 2002, I bought another while all of my friends says to wait and that the market will hit bottom and blah blahhh. I took the chance and bought it....two years later, I sold it twice I bought it for. The moral of the story is, rent is great............but if you have the opportunity to buy, take the chance.


are these people living on ramen noodles and taking public transport??

city....................home price.............salary
Newport Beach ....$1,362k.................$93k
Greenwich...........$1,129k..................$112k
Palo Alto.............$929k....................$101k
Cupertino............$880k....................$110k
 
Sorry to say, but there are more Ferrari, Lambo, Mercedes....and expensive cars on the road here to justify ramen noodles and public transportation.

Alot of you hoping that real estate market will crash and the value of homes drop to 30-40% here in Cali....I doubt that this dream will ever come true. Me on the other hand hoping that the market will pick up very shortly...so I am predicting late July of 2007. The news will find everything bad about the market to justify the means....Everytime I turn on to the news, or read the paper, I rarely see good news. All I see are bad news ....and someone died in Iraq...wait! that is bad news too. A home is not just a home, it's also a saving and investment. If you don't have one now, buy one if you can't afford it. Look at comps around the neighborhood that you want, talk to a mortgage broker to see what program fits your need, and be happy. Back in 1997, alot of my friends says to wait....it costs to much. I needed a home, so I bought one....and still holding on to it. 2002, I bought another while all of my friends says to wait and that the market will hit bottom and blah blahhh. I took the chance and bought it....two years later, I sold it twice I bought it for. The moral of the story is, rent is great............but if you have the opportunity to buy, take the chance.

I'm with you on this one Calvin.
 
Sorry to say, but there are more Ferrari, Lambo, Mercedes....and expensive cars on the road here to justify ramen noodles and public transportation.

Alot of you hoping that real estate market will crash and the value of homes drop to 30-40% here in Cali....I doubt that this dream will ever come true. Me on the other hand hoping that the market will pick up very shortly...so I am predicting late July of 2007. The news will find everything bad about the market to justify the means....Everytime I turn on to the news, or read the paper, I rarely see good news. All I see are bad news ....and someone died in Iraq...wait! that is bad news too. A home is not just a home, it's also a saving and investment. If you don't have one now, buy one if you can't afford it. Look at comps around the neighborhood that you want, talk to a mortgage broker to see what program fits your need, and be happy. Back in 1997, alot of my friends says to wait....it costs to much. I needed a home, so I bought one....and still holding on to it. 2002, I bought another while all of my friends says to wait and that the market will hit bottom and blah blahhh. I took the chance and bought it....two years later, I sold it twice I bought it for. The moral of the story is, rent is great............but if you have the opportunity to buy, take the chance.


Why should housing prices be any higher now than they were in 1995 or 2000 (ignoring inflation)?

They must have been 50+% undervalued THEN, and many years before, or they are overvalued now.

Late July 2007? Sorry. No way. Not a chance. YEARS. If interest rates rise significantly -- look out below.
 
Housing prices in CA won't drop 30-40%. Sellers just won't sell at those prices.

Banks will, and they are the ones that will own/service these speculative rental properties in bubble markets.

How much do you think the owner of SteveNY's FL rental property is losing every month? I live in the same kind of thing, rent for a little over 2 grand, and get a real chuckle out of how much my landlord is losing every month. Property mgmt fees alone are close to 1000/month.
 
Sorry to say, but there are more Ferrari, Lambo, Mercedes....and expensive cars on the road here to justify ramen noodles and public transportation.

Salary is how much you earn, and how big your mortgage can be. Ferrari, Lambo, Mercedes - how much you already have. Big difference. Don't forget - New NSXs leased for 799/month.
 
The moral of the story is, rent is great............but if you have the opportunity to buy, take the chance.

But that's just the problem, most people in CA dont have the opportunity to buy at the moment. Im waiting for prices to go down. If they dont , oh well, by then hopefully i'll be working full time in a police department, and be making more money. 7+ yrs in the military, so i definetely dont make much.
 
How much do you think the owner of SteveNY's FL rental property is losing every month? I live in the same kind of thing, rent for a little over 2 grand, and get a real chuckle out of how much my landlord is losing every month. Property mgmt fees alone are close to 1000/month.

I laugh even harder when I know that one of my rental properties that I bought for 30 grand pays for the rent on the Florida house. So essentially I bought a 30k house that pays for me to live in a million dollar house:biggrin:

Real-estate is so far out of wack in heavily populated areas. I go to places like California and Florida and wonder if everyone is nuts? It goes back to greed IMO. So many people made so much money from the initial boom and now everyone else wants to get on the wagon and make a ton of money too. just like the investors at the end of the SM boom.

My best guess is after the stock market fell apart and so many people who got in late lost their asses the power that be had to do something to keep the economy supported near the levels it was at before the SM crash. Reducing interest rates and upping assessments to allow people to borrow money against their homes was a great way to get continue flowing money through the economy. However many people did borrow money and buy homes way past their means, to the point where the bank was happy to loan out money without ever having that money paid back, ARM's.

The problem is so many people are picky about where they live. California is expensive, period. Some people have had their home value go up so much in California that they could sell their house there and buy a reasonable house in another part of the county and NEVER work again. I also believe California home prices WILL come down when homes start to go into default. The market around the San Francisco area still seems to be pretty good the last house a business partner listed there was sold in 2 weeks. However Orange county is starting to see a back up of inventory and property is not selling as fast there IMO.
If you are going to by a home in southern California be sure to plant some rare tulips in the front yard. You may need to sell those tulips in the future to make a house payment.
 
Why should housing prices be any higher now than they were in 1995 or 2000 (ignoring inflation)?

They must have been 50+% undervalued THEN, and many years before, or they are overvalued now.

Late July 2007? Sorry. No way. Not a chance. YEARS. If interest rates rise significantly -- look out below.


Owner occupied home will not have to pay any capital gain after owned it for 2+ years( within $500,000), this New Law past years ago really did push up the home price up, from what I know, many investors used differnt family memeber or friend's name & buy multiple housees & make big money without paying tax, and lowest interest rate from past 40 years is another major factor to push the price way up.
 
another suggestion is invest some vacant land around high desert area like Victorville & surrounding cities ( maybe barstow), & own it for approx 5 to 10 years, if you lucky, you might able to pay ALL CASH on your home.

One of my friend bought 60 acres on year 2000, $2200 per acre, and he just sold 5 acres last year for $370,000
 
You write something intelligent like this (I agree, although order of magnitude on interest rates is simple math and doesn't equate to anywhere near 50%)...


Owner occupied home will not have to pay any capital gain after owned it for 2+ years( within $500,000), this New Law past years ago really did push up the home price up, from what I know, many investors used differnt family memeber or friend's name & buy multiple housees & make big money without paying tax, and lowest interest rate from past 40 years is another major factor to push the price way up.

And then follow it up with something stupid like this...

another suggestion is invest some vacant land around high desert area like Victorville & surrounding cities ( maybe barstow), & own it for approx 5 to 10 years, if you lucky, you might able to pay ALL CASH on your home.

One of my friend bought 60 acres on year 2000, $2200 per acre, and he just sold 5 acres last year for $370,000


For the record... I love Steveny's "plant exotic tulips" idea!! Too funny...:tongue:
 
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