Seems like it would make more sense to put the 350 R against a NSX-R if it comes out. But really, who is cross shopping these cars? It is kind of a useless test.
First Drive C&D
- Thread starter NetViper
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Seems like it would make more sense to put the 350 R against a NSX-R if it comes out. But really, who is cross shopping these cars? It is kind of a useless test.
I may be proven wrong, but having experienced SH-AWD on a race track, I think you may be surprised at the NSXs pace on the right tyres on a race track.
I don't think too many sports cars are going to catch it on corner exits.
I think these two cars would be far apart. The GT350R is a mid to high $60k car (motortrends YouTube channel just put out an excellent video on the GT350, which the GT350R is one more step towards crazy). For the American car compare I think you have to go Z06 or Viper TA/GTS to take on the NSX. C/D just did a lightning lap recently and the Z06 beat everything in any price class this year to include offerings from Lamborghini and McLaren (I believe the Spyder).
I think the 2017 NSX is going to be a great car, much like the R8 is. However, I think of it like a cheaper version of the latest round of hybrid hypercars. I feel like it will be less emotional to drive (like the GTR) versus the rest of the Supercar world. Stil, can't wait to see it compared to the rest!
I think the 2017 NSX is going to be a great car, much like the R8 is. However, I think of it like a cheaper version of the latest round of hybrid hypercars. I feel like it will be less emotional to drive (like the GTR) versus the rest of the Supercar world. Stil, can't wait to see it compared to the rest!
They said the same thing about the first NSX and competing Ferraris of the 80s/90s. Emotional is definitely subjective for each person. Out of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s, I do not think there is another car I personally would choose over the NSX emotionally.
I have to say that on balance all of the reviews are terrible. C&D, R&T, Top Gear, Automobile etc, both in video and in print. Car seems totally underwhelming to the reviewers. It's like they are really trying to like it and write as much nice about as they can, but car just has no buzz. Definitely off to a bad start.
And R&T lists price as $170k, for a car that provides no excitement!!! I am pulling my deposit from 2012, selling my old NSX and buying a new AMG GT-S, the car that won this year's Motor Trend Best Driver's Car and Top Gear magazine's Best Performance Car of 2014. I have driven a GT-S twice now, and that thing is exciting. The noise from the exhaust is phenomenal, and Randy Pobst came off track at Laguna Seca and said he thought he had never driven a better handling car than the GT-S. And it's faster than a GT-R on track. That car has buzz. I had higher hopes for the new NSX, but as price kept going up and up, production delayed and delayed, my enthusiasm just kept dropping. I have loved my NSX since 1994, but it's time for me to give up on Honda. Their joke in Formula 1 has not been helping their image either.
And R&T lists price as $170k, for a car that provides no excitement!!! I am pulling my deposit from 2012, selling my old NSX and buying a new AMG GT-S, the car that won this year's Motor Trend Best Driver's Car and Top Gear magazine's Best Performance Car of 2014. I have driven a GT-S twice now, and that thing is exciting. The noise from the exhaust is phenomenal, and Randy Pobst came off track at Laguna Seca and said he thought he had never driven a better handling car than the GT-S. And it's faster than a GT-R on track. That car has buzz. I had higher hopes for the new NSX, but as price kept going up and up, production delayed and delayed, my enthusiasm just kept dropping. I have loved my NSX since 1994, but it's time for me to give up on Honda. Their joke in Formula 1 has not been helping their image either.
Why not pull your deposit after your own test drive of a production ready car?
The NSX2 is not like the 488 or the GT3 or the AMG GTS. Those cars are focused machines with one personality. They start with a growl, drive a certain way, have a loud and aggressive growl...there is no ambiguity as to their purpose.
The NSX2 like the original is attempting to be an "everyday" super car. It should have the reliability of an Accord and mild manners around town and city traffic but the option to be opened up and enjoyed as an ultra sports car when the owner wants to. It will probably be an easier car to live with day in and day out and probably be enjoyed on more days because of it's multiple personalities. A carefree and reliable partner like the original. However, if you are wanting a focused car that pretty much goes just one way, is not as easy to live day in and day out, is in all likelihood less reliable but with perhaps more "character", then yes the Europeans have an edge.
Once the "final" version of the well sorted NSX with proper tires and software does come out, it would be interesting to see what these same journalists have to say about it. Also, the final price and available optioned out versions would help figure out comparable pricing with the European competition.
But the AMG GTS is a fine car and I have myself tried it and am tempted by it. The Mercedes reliability or the lack thereof has kept me from ordering one so far. Best of luck with a very interesting machine.
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fastaussie
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have to disagree with you on that one. having driven the 458 and GTS on both road and race track extensively, either one of those cars are superb everyday daily drivers. i'd happily and instantly jump in one and drive to Canada tomorrow without a second thought. or a Huracan, or a 911. and the 488 will undoubtedly be a lot better than the 458 in this and every other regard. as for the R8, i'd do the same trip any time in the old car, and the new one is certainly heaps better. i've driven all of those cars quite a bit, with the exception of the 488 obviously. that whole "everyday Supercar/your grandma can go grocery shopping in" is no longer the trump card of only the NSX. i really think that particular one should be dropped from the excuse book, it's been irrelevant for a long time now.
and again, we're talking Supercars here. let's not forget the niche. the Honda fanboys will always tout this as what makes the NSX so special, it's Accord like qualities. everyone else will just say it's boring.
i've read all the reviews today and i'd have to agree with the posts regarding that so far everyone is sounding rather underwhelmed. i have a few mates who have been testing the car (for Acura) previous it's press release, and they also echoed the same sentiments months ago. i'd argue the one greatest attribute a Supercar should have is "excitement"! "character" and "aggression" seem like important traits also.
the current crop of Supercars can be driven by anyone, anytime, in any mode, as easily as a Toyota Camry. what truly sets them apart from an "Accord-like" type of car is their super performance, hence the moniker this market segment goes by.
this paragraph for R&T seems to sum it up pretty well, especially the last line which some of you use similarly quite often in defending the car:
Honda wants the NSX to be an everyday supercar, but by definition, a supercar isn't an everyday affair. It's a special thing reserved for special days, and if you buy one, you never want to quietly tip toe out of a valet stand under electric power. You want to rattle the crystal on the hotel roof. You want to throw open the garage doors on a gorgeous day and bend the asphalt to your will. If there's compromise, you want it in the pursuit of performance, not livability.
There was a time when you felt a little NSX in your Accord. Now there's too much Accord in your NSX.
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I agree with this 100%. The whole "easy-to-live-with" supercar idea has been a moot point for years. It no longer gives a supercar a competitive advantage. It was applicable in the 80's and 90's but nowadays I'd argue the majority of supercars can be driven daily in reasonable comfort.
It's possible to produce a supercar that's both emotional AND livable. Look at the 458 Italia. That car is 6 years old now. It has a sweet, sweet flat plane crank V8, adjustable and nimble handling, and is still comfortable enough to "drive to the grocery store" in. I don't need any more Accord in my supercar. You reach a point where the car is too much of a compromise. If you really want an Accord, buy an Accord, daily it, and save the supercar for special occasions.
I cannot disagree with you. HONDA is unfortunately trying to be all things to all people.
But "all" people do not buy a super car.
Only "few" people buy cars of this nature.
HONDA should make a focused car for those who are wanting a focused car.
I am hoping that the "Track Mode" of the NSX would be violent enough to provide such a character.
The biggest factor when making a comparison with Ferrari though is price point. One can't find a brand new 458/488 for $150K. The compromise with some excitement for something cutting-edge and still very competent is good trade-off IMO. Only time will tell for the dubious reliability of the hybrid system tho...
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That's a good point. Having an extra 70-100k tacked onto the MSRP better give some more excitement in the supercar market. But then again, the McLaren 570S costs around the same as the NSX is apparently loads of fun. Even the R8 V10 (and V8 for that matter) seems to have more character than the NSX. Time will tell...
Nothing any magazine complained about can't be fixed with some better tires, aftermarket exhaust and maybe some software tweaks.
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Aftermarket exhaust won't fix the dull induction noise. I don't think it will ever sound as good as the original NSX. But I guess that's not saying much since turbos will never sound as good as NA, in my rather biased opinion.
This is subjective, as they have purposely tried to enhance the engine sound via some tubing into the cockpit (Honda has clearly been listening and conscious of engine noise) and from the videos I've watched/heard, it sounds better than the original NSX to me.
It's not loud like a V8 or V10 European counterparts from factory especially with two turbos and heavy cats, however, I believe it will have a distinct sound with a decent free-flow aftermarket exhaust and I'm willing to bet that it could sound monstrous ultimately if tuned properly.
fastaussie
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the 488 sounds awesome, some think better than the 458...
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Sound is definitely subjective. From every video I've seen of the NSX 2.0 so far, it just sounds too synthesized IMO. I actually don't mind the sound tubes if they enhance loudness, but the sound quality itself just isn't very inspiring.
This is coming from someone who finds the LFA, Carrera GT, F50, etc as the best sounding production cars. As far as V6's go, original NSX is my #1 .
That's true. I like how the 488 sounds even with its turbos. Props to Ferrari, however they pulled it off.
That's the first time I have ever heard someone say the 488 sounds better than the 458.
the 350 slk with sports inlet option is probably the best sounding v6 I've heard.
i think a titanium exhaust alone with the second cats removed will be enough to do the job. The 75 degree bank angle is going to make for a distinctive sound.
the 350 slk with sports inlet option is probably the best sounding v6 I've heard.
i think a titanium exhaust alone with the second cats removed will be enough to do the job. The 75 degree bank angle is going to make for a distinctive sound.
fastaussie
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i've heard it said more than a few times...
No chance that is true.
fastaussie
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watch a few online reviews, you'll hear it.
everyone's favourite tester Chris Harris reckons it's just as good (around 9 minutes in) as a 458: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlvMRTQ6-X0
everyone's favourite tester Chris Harris reckons it's just as good (around 9 minutes in) as a 458: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlvMRTQ6-X0
