FD gets its A$$ handed to it by an nsx *vid*
- Thread starter ffffanman
- Start date
Thanks for the vid...I'm juggling between starting a money pit *cough cough* I mean FD project right now ('94 R2 edition) or purchasing a pretty much solid and reliable NSX and using the money that I would have spent trying to get the 13B running correctly and put that into the NSX to make it better...oh the hell with it I'll just get both :biggrin:
FormulaRX said:
I had an FD. Money pit is the correct term, not to mention headache and unnecesary worry everytime you drive it. It was my favorite car, but never again. I spent way more money on the FD to keep it running right than I did on purchasing a solid NSX.
Dumb question: What's an FD? Thanks.
NSXs are beautiful cars, but they aren't exactly track monsters, even s/c'ed.....
He been drinkin wot?
He been drinkin wot?
Cool Video....thks for posting it!!
FD = 3rd generation RX-7. (FC = 2nd gen, FB /= 1st gen)
Out of the box FD's are: Extremely fast, handle incredibly well and completely unreliable.
It is unlikely that any stock NSX can beat an [properly functioning] FD. If you read the references posts they break down the video. The NSX is highly modified and fitted with track tires, while the FD appears completely stock....which could have made it a fair race.
If you have not driven an FD, they are insanely fun...the weekly screwing with the turbos, cooling and suspension bushings is just as insane. The 13B engine is bulletproof though....too bad Mazda just didn't install an NA 20B and be done with the turbos.
Drew
/former FD CYM R1 owner.
Out of the box FD's are: Extremely fast, handle incredibly well and completely unreliable.
It is unlikely that any stock NSX can beat an [properly functioning] FD. If you read the references posts they break down the video. The NSX is highly modified and fitted with track tires, while the FD appears completely stock....which could have made it a fair race.
If you have not driven an FD, they are insanely fun...the weekly screwing with the turbos, cooling and suspension bushings is just as insane. The 13B engine is bulletproof though....too bad Mazda just didn't install an NA 20B and be done with the turbos.
Drew
/former FD CYM R1 owner.
They are definitely worry machines...so much so that it totally takes away from the driving experience. But they are FUN.
David
former 1993 FD owner
David
former 1993 FD owner
drew said:
The reference posts are just assumptions made by folks trying to justify the result of the video. There is no evidence regarding the NSX modification or tires, beyond the fact that you can hear a ton of squeal in the FD and none in the NSX. The rest is pure conjecture.
As far as I am concerned, the only thing the video proves is that the person driving the FD is not very skilled.
The NSX is extremely strong at HPDEs. I would put a stock NSX against a stock FD (if you can find one) any day of the week. The FD is cheaper to modify to a point (400-420 hp) but after that you have to replace and rebuild all of the things that give the FD an advantage in modification potential.
The FD is a great car and certainly worthy of respect, but it is not accurate to anoint it as a superior track car to an NSX. There are hundreds of folks on this board, myself included, that prove that several weekends a year.
And yes, I have driven FDs, including FDs making 380+ at the wheels.
As an owner of an FD (modestly modified), I haven't had any major problems at all. I know there are 3rd gens out there with their fair share of issues....but there are also alot of people that beat the hell out of these cars. Yes, the rotary is unique and requires a little more care (watch the oil, kids), but not really that much extra. Treat any car well and you will be rewarded. Treat any car badly, and the propensity of issues rises - some cars more significantly than others, admitably. I don't think the 3rd gen deserves as much negative press as you see on the internet.
The car is fun, tossable, go-karty and unique. If you get the standard "reliability mods" done on them (intake, downpipe, exhaust, AST replacement, silicone "rats nest" replacement, and [Fluidyne] aftermarket radiator), it is pretty solid. Heh. Yeah, yeah, I know; that seems like more than you would think! LOL.
Just saying that as my experience for my car. Your mileage may vary.
My .02,
Eggman
The car is fun, tossable, go-karty and unique. If you get the standard "reliability mods" done on them (intake, downpipe, exhaust, AST replacement, silicone "rats nest" replacement, and [Fluidyne] aftermarket radiator), it is pretty solid. Heh. Yeah, yeah, I know; that seems like more than you would think! LOL.
Just saying that as my experience for my car. Your mileage may vary.
My .02,
Eggman
ah... the FD3S, the only other car i want :biggrin:
this car will spin like a top when its wet outside though :biggrin:
and if your unlucky right into a ditch + tree =(
money pit, yes
fun to drive, very
reliable, NO (unless you can rebuild the wankel every 10k miles yourself)
then it wouldnt be too bad,
also one of the only cars i know of that has a YOU ARE SCREWED light that comes with, the light on the center change drawer between the driver and passenger seat that says OVERHEAT or something like that
its kind of like an NSX but without most of the reliability, i believe the cornering capability is very close though, it does weigh about 200 lbs less than a na1.
my friend did have one that still had the original motor after 130k miles so who knows, then again he also blew it in the first six months because fuel starvation under boost from turning too hard / sloshing or something,
again, this is my second favorite car, blowing up or not
sweet video though
this car will spin like a top when its wet outside though :biggrin:
and if your unlucky right into a ditch + tree =(
money pit, yes
fun to drive, very
reliable, NO (unless you can rebuild the wankel every 10k miles yourself)
then it wouldnt be too bad,
also one of the only cars i know of that has a YOU ARE SCREWED light that comes with, the light on the center change drawer between the driver and passenger seat that says OVERHEAT or something like that
its kind of like an NSX but without most of the reliability, i believe the cornering capability is very close though, it does weigh about 200 lbs less than a na1.
my friend did have one that still had the original motor after 130k miles so who knows, then again he also blew it in the first six months because fuel starvation under boost from turning too hard / sloshing or something,
again, this is my second favorite car, blowing up or not
sweet video though
drew said:
The 13B is bulletproof??? Since when? Extremely simple in design yes but nto very efficient and definietly NOT bulletproof...Apex seals need replacing every 60-70K miles or so. Most FDs that you look at will be on their 2nd engine (many replaced under Mazda warranty) but still it's a pain, one that I really considered putting up with just to be able to rock an FD...the sheer power and sound from the rotory is simply amazing. I drove a 93 R1 with simple BPU and was hooked ... never drove an NSX before so I wonder how it compares. Anyway, as for the N/A 20B, for around $13K you can swap one into your FD ...I believe you can get them from the Cosmos sedans from Japan??? It'll be more reliable than the turbo 13B that's for sure
lol what ever happened to the LEMANS rotary that won the 24 hour race?
i think it was the 787B right? anyhow i believe that the NA rotary engines are quite reliable, but the whole boost thing and increased temperature definitely is part of the problem. but yeah, too bad i dont have a Competition Yellow Mica in my garage next to my Berlina blax0r nsx =o
i think it was the 787B right? anyhow i believe that the NA rotary engines are quite reliable, but the whole boost thing and increased temperature definitely is part of the problem. but yeah, too bad i dont have a Competition Yellow Mica in my garage next to my Berlina blax0r nsx =o
Yep it was the 787B Lemans racer with the 4-rotor N/A engine making in excess of 700hp ... won 24h of Lemans back in '91
FormulaRX said:
Yup, you heard right. 13Bs are bulletproof. Its the turbos that make them unreliable. Look how many NA secondgens are running around on their original motors with high miles. Just take care of the oil issue and the 13b will run for a very, very long time. As for replacing it with a 20b, it isn't as easy as it sounds. Its much easier to drop a 20b into the FC than the FD due to compartment size. The other problem is smog...almost impossible in CA, besides the 20bs were sequential turbos aswell. :wink:
yeah forgot about the N/A 13B in he FC ... those are clockwork! Which leads me to my question of curiosity...turbo piston engines don't seem to require that frequent of a rebuild as turbo rotary engines do, even if the turbo piston engine has increased its boost pressure. Stock FDs with mild engine mods and stock boost pressure see a higher chance of apex seal failure than a boosted piston engine sees piston ring failure. Considering that the rotary apex seal is the piston engine's piston ring equivalent, why would the apex seals fail at a higher rate? Aren't they made of the same material? Are apex seals subjected to more friction and stress do to the nature of the rotary over piston engines? I know this is a topic for RX7Forum.com but since we're on the topic of reliability, thought I might throw the question here and see if anyone has a good explainantion
Well, not all of them. My favorite.....95NSXT said:
"why must you try to come up with excuses for the rx7.. it is wat it is."
That was the safety car. Did anyone notice the light bar on the roof, or the fact that it was pulling into the pits after one lap? I don't think anyone's a$$ was getting handed to anyone. 
I sold my 94 R2 RX-7 for my 91 NSX and it was the BEST decision I ever made. I was on my second engine I had a Pettit downpipe, Silicone vacuum hoses, Aluminum AST, A'pexi turbo timer, and Mazdaspeed aluminum radiator and I still had constant problems. I never tracked it or beat it. Anyway I blew a side seal while driving down the highway and luckily had it replaced under warranty :biggrin: (Used car warranties are so great!!) Then 15k miles on the new engine my boost was dropping to 2psi when my secondary turbo transitioned in. Had it towed to KD Rotary to have them tell me my secondary turbo was blown 
I ended up selling it with 126k on the odometer with the blown turbos to some kid a few miles away for $12,000. People will pay anything for a FD. Unless money is not an object and you don't mind 2,000 mile oil changes than go for it. Besides all the worries it gave me the car was an absolute blast to drive!!
I ended up selling it with 126k on the odometer with the blown turbos to some kid a few miles away for $12,000. People will pay anything for a FD. Unless money is not an object and you don't mind 2,000 mile oil changes than go for it. Besides all the worries it gave me the car was an absolute blast to drive!!
oh no doubt, the 93 R1 I drove was one of the greatest driving experiences I've ever felt...the car was fast, I think the engine was rebuilt with 3mm apex seals, ported and polished ports, 680cc primary/1800cc secondary injectors, single turbo conversion, all that stuff and what got me was how the power wasn't brute torque like a big displacement turbo engine but rather a rapid but ULTRA SMOOTH acceleration that could only be had with a Rotary powered car. If I could choose between the NSX or a PROPERLY running and RELIABLE FD, I'd be hard pressed not to go for the FD but since you can't put FD and Reliable in the same sentence, I'll go for the NSX, which is an awesome car and my dream since I was a teenager but the FD is so much more fun to drive. I was considering a 94 R2 but even if I have the money to get it, I don't know if I'd enjoy having to worry about it constantly
I will throw in my $.02 since I have owned 2 13B cars. I owned an 84 GSL-SE (the first 13B RX-7, and also the first fuel injected one) and it accumualted 145K of fairly hard driving (I was in high school at the time), with no major engine problems other than an odd vapor lock type sypmtom a few times in hot weather). This was an FB. The next was an 87 RX-7 Turbo II (FC) which was never a problem car when I had it, but did experience engine problems with the girl I sold it to a year or so later. I enjoyed both cars, but the 84 was much more fun, as the 87 would get dusted by a Dodge colt (and I do not mean turbo) off the line until the boost got going. I bought my first house by the time the FD came out, so I was not in a financial posistion to buy one when new, but I thought it was an awesome upgrade in terms of performance over the FC Turbo I owned.
Check out these vids...saw him him this year at RA and he laid down a 2.31 lap time which is flying. Then I heard he blew his motor the following week. 
http://www.myrx7.com/movies/
http://www.myrx7.com/movies/
I bet every person on that board would trade their RX7 for a NSX anyday. RX7 is a everyday beater car, not an exotic trackrat. Come on..
That Lemans winning RX-7 based car was the ONLY Japanese car to ever win the 24 hours.
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