Fair Market Value for 80K Mile '97 ??

[aaronb]

I posted my car for sale last month here on NSXPrime: http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000181.html . It's a Monte Carlo Blue three owner car with some prior paint work on it.

I'm currently considering posting it out on Autotrader as well. My initial desire was to stick within the NSX Community (posted on nsxsc.com as well), but have only had a dozen or so inquiries and four visits so far (three from out of town).

Can I get opinions on the fair market value of this car as well as on the expected volume of interest posted here on NSXPrime and if I decide to purchase space on autotrader.com? My bank told me that the trade in value was 45 and the blue book value was 55 -- is this accurate based on current market conditions?

More pictures available here: http://web2.airmail.net/abrooks/nsx.html

Thanks!

 

[hyuan]

I think the price is fair even with the high mileage and the paintwork.

 

[AaronR]

I think it's fair too. I paid a very high price for my 94 becuase it had 1 owner and 14,000 mile find, but I would have spent a little more for your car if it was presented to me at the same time. Gotta love that color!

 

[insx]

I believe it actually depend on the potential buyer's main purpose of buying the car. I paid very high price for the low mileage MINT Green '94 with 9k miles and 1 owner. Just put yourself in the buyer's perspective. Look the overal condition of your car, and honestly value your car as if you are a potential buyer, considering all the factors (including wear and tear cost to replace parts in the near future) as detailed in the NSXprime FAQ. It is the buyer who decides how much a car worth to him. You just need to show the facts that your car is really worth that high by showing all the maintenance and upgrades records, PLUS prove that the car has been pampered

Also you might want to check with your local car dealer for an estimate so you have the bottom line price. I think most dealer would give you $3-5 grand bellow the trade-in value.

That blue is one of my favorite color.

Good Luck.

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--
'94 NSX Brooklands Green Pearl/ Onyx - 9k miles
'01 M3 Laguna Seca Blue/ Grey

[This message has been edited by insx (edited 26 July 2002).]

 

[Mike O]

aaronb,

Just my opinion...but if four people have come to look at the car (three of which you say came from out of town), and no one has yet bought your car, I'm guessing it all comes down to price and condition.

Either your price could be too high, or the condition is not what they expected. Therefore, if the condition is very nice, it could be the price you're asking...

 

[nsxtasy]

I think 90 percent of owners think that their own NSX is in better condition than 90 percent of the NSXs out there. That being said...

I have not seen this car, and will assume it is as described here, well-maintained and in excellent condition for the mileage.

What we have here is a '97 with extremely high mileage for that model year, and with some paint work, which I'll assume was done properly and cannot be spotted by most people. The mods are fairly substantial. This is the perfect car for someone who wants the improvements that came with the '97+ and wants (or is willing to accept) performance mods, but is only willing to pay a bargain price for which he is willing to accept the higher mileage. The mods and the mileage will each turn some buyers off, so finding a buyer will be tougher than the average '97.

I think the asking price is fair, and (as usual) you can expect to knock another $2-4K or so off during negotiations to arrive at a selling price.

I would suggest posting a free ad in autotrader.com (hey, it's free - what do you have to lose?). Getting a price from a dealer is a good idea too - and remember, if you're buying another car, a trade-in may give you sales tax savings that might make up for a price that's lower than you are hoping for.

 

[Lud]

Just curious - did you ask any of the four people who looked at it why they didn't buy it? Do you know if they were serious buyers (i.e. have they since bought another '97+ NSX) or just tire kickers, or someone considering an NSX who wanted to see what one was like in person, or someone who decided they wanted an earlier model year NSX?

I looked at your car two owners and many miles ago. I could have bought it for around $50k at that time, primarily due to the number of miles and the accident history. There was nothing really wrong with it, and paint work is not a deal-breaker in my book, I just wanted a lower mile car that had not been a daily driver.

So given that I could have bought it for around $50k a while back, assuming it's still in as good condition just with more miles, I'd start in the mid-40s as a base price. Then let's consider the mods.

All this is worth so little at resale time it's not worth calculating individually, but taken all together maybe a couple hundred bucks: Smartenna, Dali Stone Radiator Guard, Dali Stone AC Guards, Clifford Intelliguard 8000, Valentine One Detector (hardwired)

The chromed wheels are really worth nothing over stock and may be a negative to many buyers.

The only real individual mods with resale value I see are:
Dali Anti Sway Bars
Comptech Non-Compliance Rear Beam
Comptech Powergrip II clutch

I use a rule of thumb of 50% of parts value for "widely desired" mods. sway bars and non-compliance beams are not as widely desired as say headers and exhaust, but let's gowith 50% anyway which means $150 swaybars, $350 rear beam.

The clutch largely depends how many miles are on it. Over 20k miles and it's probably not worth much to most people since they don't know how it was treated. Less than that and it's probably worth a few hundred to someone who doesn't like the stock clutch. On a NA car there is no real need to upgrade the clutch - this one was only installed because the car was briefly supercharged by the previous owner.

So assuming the car is in good condition, needs NOTHING, and ALL maintenance is current, I think you're fairly on the mark with a $49k asking price and an upper-40s selling price.

You just have to remember that you have a narrower market for a modified car, and a narrower market still for a car with much higher miles than most others of the same model year, and a narrower market still for one with an accident / repair history even if the work is good.

If you are in a rush to unload the car you can probably do so quickly by dropping the price several grand. If you want to wait for the right buyer, I think you will find someone who wants that car and considers that a fair price.

Just my opinion!

 

[hk4site]

35k tops

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by hk4site:
35k tops

Of course, anyone selling any car (or any house) can expect to receive "lowball" offers...

 

[nsxtasy]

For the benefit of our overseas friends not familiar with English slang, a "lowball" offer is an offer made by a prospective buyer for a price substantially less than true market value, with the expectation that the offer will be rejected by the seller (but the knowledge that if it is accepted, an incredible bargain might be obtained that way). Such buyers are sometimes called "lowballers". And sometimes called "slime".

 

[Bilulan]

I saw a recent auction sheet where a 97 w/ 68,000 ran through a Florida auction for $43k.

Unsure of condition...
But at that price I would think its primarily the mileage. Thats about rough book.

 

[insx]

You are right Bilulan. As I recall last year several high mileages (around 60,000) '97 NSXs sold for about mid 40s. I believe one of the member here is a used car dealer who sold a 97 black NSX last year at that price.
So realistically expect to get offers from low to mid 40s this year for that high mileage.




------------------
--
'94 NSX Brooklands Green Pearl/ Onyx - 9k miles
'01 M3 Laguna Seca Blue/ Grey

 

[nsxtasy]

Don't compare auction prices with retail prices. If a car with 68K miles sells for $43K at auction, meaning that a dealer expects to make a significant profit reselling it, that supports a selling price of $45-47K for a car with 86K miles from a private seller.

 

[aaronb]

Thanks for the great information (except hk4site) everybody! No Slimeball, I mean low-ball offers

I think I've gotten good interest from the four people who've come out to see the car.

1. Wanted to drive a '97+ before purchasing -- he bought a 2002 with 2600 miles on it.

2. Already has an NSX and needs to sell before buying another

3. Same as #2

4. Seems interested but waiting for news on the economy.

All of the people who've been out have really liked the car, as I do. I just needed a sanity check on my asking price.

As for "Extensive" modifications, I don't really have any Engine mods, so I didn't really consider them Extensive myself -- but I'm not trying to adjust the price of the car based on roll bars or a couple hundred dollars of bug screens.

Anyway, thanks for all your help. I really had no plans to sell this car when I got it, but the Economy and Nature have conspired against me to change my priorities in life I still half-hope I don't sell it, but there are other things I'd rather do with the money right now, so I am serious about selling the car.

Thanks again.

 

[nsxtasy]

FWIW - I termed the mods "fairly substantial" mostly because of the clutch, which will be noticeably different when driving the car. The others are all minor. I would not refer to this car as having "major mods" (body kits, forced induction, etc), which would reduce the potential market much further.

 

[aaronb]

That's true -- I didn't consider that part of the engine as it's a wear item.

It took a little getting used to, but I really like the clutch now. Of course, if I were to keep the car I'd probably put in an OEM clutch when this one wears out.

Aaron

 

[ck]

AaronB,

I agree that your car is priced fairly as well. Just hang in there. There are very few people that are willing to by a five year old car with 80k miles for the price of a new Mercedes. I'm in your same situation. My 97 yellow is listed w/paintwork and 49k miles and I am still waiting for the right buyer. Don't be worried that only 4 people came to see it. By being honest about your car in your ads, you eliminate many people who don't want paintwork, mods, color, etc. Your asking price is fair and you can expect to get mid to high 40's for that car. Only 20 some people bought that particular car and color combo when new, and you can expect that there are probably only slightly more people than that now that are looking for that car. I am the dealer that sold the black 97 last year with higher mileage. After 9/11 that car sat for 4 months and many tire kickers later, I found who I feel was the perfect buyer for it. It actually was a very complicated situation because of a trade on a highly modded vehicle of his. Remember this, 95-T's still fetch high 30's to low/mid forties. I think you and I and almost everyone else would agree that a 97 is tons better than the 95 (except for 95 owners of course

) It is just a matter of affordability. I could sell 91-92's all day because at +- $30k, they are relatively affordable to many people. At +-$ $50k, the 97 is out of reach for most. I don't particularly agree with the bum economy theory either. $50k Mercedes have been rolling out of my warehouse left and right. People who had money, mostly still have money and some are even spending more freely because they pulled their money out of the market and are finally getting some of the toys that they had put off for so long in lieu of investments. It is the type of car that is a problem. Sports car, two seater, high-priced, and impractical. I've seen many guys who would love to have gotten a car like that, but their wives and their need to carry more people have pulled them away. You basically need someone who is well enough off to have cars for his family and a $50k toy for himself. Very hard to find. In the mean time, good luck with your sale and kick all the lowballers to the curb! $35k?! When I was selling the 97 Black last year, I had offers all over the board. People tried to teach me on pricing for the vehicle. The lowest offer I got was also around $35k.

Regards,
Chris

[This message has been edited by ck (edited 27 July 2002).]

 

[hk4site]

You asked for what people though you could get for your car... my answer was 35k, that in no way was a offer just my guess of what it is worth.

 

[nsxtasy]

Okay, it wasn't an offer. It was, and is, still ridiculous and totally out of line with the market, IMO.

There are currently 16 1997 NSXs listed on autotrader.com The lowest asking price there is $46K and the 15 others are asking $49K or higher.

 

[hk4site]

I think that 45k is right for a unmodified, low mileage ( under 30k) popular color NSX, you substract the mileage, modified and color and you come to 35k. I hope that he gets what he is asking but do not be suprised with a mid 30's selling price

 

[aaronb]

I appreciate your opinion hk4site, but don't feel offended that I give more weight to nsxtasy's opinion based on his demonstrated NSX knowledge and history on this board (5000+ posts vs. your 35).

Thanks again, it's nothing personal that I throw out that data point

Aaron

[This message has been edited by aaronb (edited 27 July 2002).]

 

[ck]

Originally posted by hk4site:
I think that 45k is right for a unmodified, low mileage ( under 30k) popular color NSX, you substract the mileage, modified and color and you come to 35k. I hope that he gets what he is asking but do not be suprised with a mid 30's selling price

I would be damn surprised with a mid 30's selling price. So his 97 is basically worth as much a a similar 94? Or is a 94 with those miles worth about low to mid 20's? That would make a 91 worth about 12-15k, right? You know of any 97 cars selling for those prices? But then again, this is just your opinion. However, I'll be quick to tell you that you don't know what you are talking about.

[This message has been edited by ck (edited 27 July 2002).]

[This message has been edited by ck (edited 27 July 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by hk4site:
I think that 45k is right for a unmodified, low mileage ( under 30k) popular color NSX, you substract the mileage, modified and color and you come to 35k. I hope that he gets what he is asking but do not be suprised with a mid 30's selling price

I think that an unmodified, average mileage '97 (and 25K is average, not low) with clean title and six-speed will sell for somewhere around $50K, maybe $48K if you're lucky. Subtract maybe $1K for the clutch, add maybe $500 for the other mods (V1 is particularly nice), add $2.5K for the color (Monte Carlo Blue is in higher demand and shorter supply than the other colors - just ask Lud), subtract $5K for the high mileage, and you're right in the $45-47K range I mentioned. Maybe knock off another grand if it hasn't had the timing belt service. I could be off by a grand or two either way, but no more. Of course, in a particular instance, a buyer may offer more than market value, or a seller may settle for less than market value, but it shouldn't be too hard to buy or sell for close to market value.

Heck, if I could get a clean '97 MC Blue for $35K, I'd buy one myself.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 27 July 2002).]

 

[Mike O]

nsxtacy,

I agree with your overall assessment of the value of aaronb's car, but I would think that one might deduct $8000-$10,000 for the excessive mileage and the fact the car has been repainted.

There are a number of other '97 NSX's for sale that do not have that kind of mileage, and that have never had any sort of paintwork, and I'm guessing that the vast majority (90% or more) of people looking for a '97 NSX would want to buy one with lower mileage and with no paintwork.

The biggest thing, in my opinion, that aaronb's car has in its favor is the unique color, but when one considers that the mileage is truly excessive (heck, my '91 only has 21,600 miles), and the fact it has been repainted, I'm guessing that $40,000-$42,000 is more like it.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Mike O:
I would think that one might deduct $8000-$10,000 for the excessive mileage and the fact the car has been repainted.

My assumption is that a few parts of the car have been repainted, but not the entire car. If the entire car has been repainted, that could justify lowering by another few grand, but that does not appear to be the case from Aaron's description.

Regarding NSX mileage, in general, 5K miles a year tends to be average, and a high-mileage NSX is one with 10K miles a year. There are quite a few '97s out there in the 50K mileage range, but one with this many miles is extremely rare.

OTOH, I think there may be individuals out there who want the enhancements of the '97+ (primarily 3.2-liter engine and 6-speed) and would be willing to jump at the chance to get one at a lower price, despite the mileage.

In any case, it's tough to argue with conviction for any particular figure, because there just aren't many (if ANY other) '97+ cars out there with mileage this high. So that makes this car somewhat unique, and without others to compare it with, it becomes much more of a guessing game. In which case, anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's.

Still, as one other means of comparison, I bet a dealer would offer at least $40K for it...

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 27 July 2002).]