Engine: C32B in 1992

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MichaelJames

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I spun 2 bearings in my 1992 Acura NSX and need to either rebuild or replace. I also damaged the crankshaft bearing surfaces (crankshaft has to be replaced). Also, the clutch is destroyed.

I have the opportunity to get from Japan a 1998 "Red Valve Cover" type R engine (C32B-engine code), complete engine assembly with a crankshaft, 6 speed tranny and clutch assembly.

Is this a feasible swap? What should I know going in?
 
interesting...

I'd love to see the more experienced & knowledgable guru's offer some insights in this thread! :cool:

Offhand, I can think of these points:

- '92 was OBD1, and post '95 models were OBD2
- '92 ECU would have to be swapped for NA2 (C32) ECU -or- NSX-R ECU (?)
- '92 NSX wasn't drive-by-throttle, that was introduced for '95+ NSX's
- '92 NSX has different throttle-body & intake manifold, need to be changed (?)
- '97-'99 headers, cats', exhaust-manifolds, etc. should be retrofitted (?)

I'm nowhere as skilled & technically/mechanically inclined as some on this forum, so please excuse any simpleton-like assumptions I may have made above. This is a topic I'm keen on learning about! :)

I'm curious if the '98 NSX-R motor you've acquired is the same in essence to the '02+ NSX-R's motor, blue-printed/balanced/etc. :confused:
 
haha new stroker crankshaft a la SOS? :biggrin:
 
Regular ole 3.2L

MichaelJames said:
1998 "Red Valve Cover" type R engine (C32B-engine code)
Click to expand...
I share satan_srv's skepticism, especially since later model NSXs had red valve covers and since there was no NSX-R from 1996 to 2001.

The original NSX-R (3.0L and 5-speed transmission) was in production from 1992-1995. The new NSX-R was launched in 2002.
 
Putting a 3.2L into an OBDI car is NOT the same thing as putting a 91-94 OBDI into an OBDII car. Also, I would bet the engine is just a standard 98 3.2L. Fine, but JDM not any better than a USDM one. All 97+ valve covers are red AFAIK.

6 speed into your car is no problem, with either engine. You'll need a lockout kit amongst other minor things. Check out science of speed and comptech. You can even use 91-96 cheaper twin disk clutches with an NSX-R input shaft (2 sets of splines). R&Ps options are plentiful too.

Engine will physically fit, and will require an OBD1 throttle body and unknown (to me) other parts to make it work. I am not sure if an OBD1 engine management will handle a 3.2L, or you might need an aftermarket EMS.

I am sure there are quite a few people that can answer the question more completely, and I will be learning along with you. Good luck with the repairs.
 
(1) you can make ANY USDM engine as strong or stronger than a JDM motor dollar for dollar (money spent for the JDM motor + shipping vs a cheaper USDM motor with the savings spent on aftermarket parts)

Now if you want a true show car, having a jdm-r motor will instantly put you a step ahead! :biggrin:

Also how did you spin the bearings? On track? and/or low on oil.
 
Spun Bearings.. hmmm.. its an interesting case. I was not driving the car, so all I know is second hand. I had originally driven the car down to the company that was to do about 1 weeks of work (install a new K40 module that went defective, replace light bulbs (which required removing the stereo system from the trunk), tucking a new Speed Lingeri Bra on the front (bracket didn't work), find a whining sound in the electrical for the stereo.

I drove it down in April... with me calling every week, I never got a release date until 4 months later when they spun the bearings on the last day of testing. According to the company that was working on my stereo system and K40 system, they took the car out, with my permission, and coming off an off ramp, the oil light came on, oil pressure drops to zero. Right off the off ramp, was an Acura dealer who refused to look at it because it had aftermarket equipment on it. Had it towed 45 miles to my house and towed to my mechanic. I was 2 or maybe 3 quarts low. They drove the car in and out of their garage every night.

My Acura NSX Certified mechanic also noticed localized melting on the fly wheel and friction material in between the clutch plate and fly wheel. He has been working on NSX's for 10 yrs. and immediately asked if I had taken this car to the track in the last month... all the damage to the clutch was done on the upshifts based on the damage. Asked if I had been doing clutch dumping. I told him I had not seen the car in 4 months. I babied this car... never taken it to the track, never dragged raced it. Its a complete show car only.

Damage: There are 2 spun bearings, damage to the crankshaft (scratched on the crankshaft bearing surface or journal.. its chromed and they say cannot be turned.. no one makes an aftermarket bearing for this car that I am aware of.. said they eventually go defective so they stopped making them).

Repair: Timing belt, Adjuster, exhaust valve spring, exhaust valves (12), intake, inner spring, oil pump, oil screen, water pump, O-ring, thermastat, rubber, piston rings (6), connecting rod bearing(1),
connecting rod, pistons (6), cylinder head gasket (1 big and 1 small for the block), clutch, hoses, crank shaft, fuel filter, main bearings, thrust washer/bearing, throwout bearing. The big dollar items are Exhaust Valves for $600, Oil Pump $515, Piston Rings $350, Connecting Rod $763, 6 pistons $700, Cylinder Head Gasket $570, Clutch $1200, Crankshaft $2443.

Estimate to repair: $10k for parts (total), $1500 for mechanic labor (which is really good for all of this work), up to $1500 for machine work. So I'm looking at $13,000 to rebuild. This is all new parts, nothing used. 3 year warranty.

Estimate to replace with R-type from Japan: $7500 plus shipping which includes the entire engine plus exhaust, intake, all accessories (alternator, power stearing, air conditioning, water pump, 6 speed tranny, clutch assembly, bell housing, etc.. Will need to ask about throttle assembly, OBD system, and ECU (all the electronics/management system)

Any thoughts on this guys?????? Trying to decide on a direction here.
 
Damage: There are 2 spun bearings, damage to the crankshaft (scratched on the crankshaft bearing surface or journal.. its chromed and they say cannot be turned.. no one makes an aftermarket bearing for this car that I am aware of.. said they eventually go defective so they stopped making them).

This is not true, just had a 3.0 crank repaired with a spun bearing. Crankshaft $2443. I think a few hundred $$ for a competent machinist will do it.

I would think you would swap all the 3.0 liter throttle body/intake from the heads up, also the exhaust (headers I hope:)) and leave everything else alone and it will be fine. But I will do a little more homework to confirm.

We recently did a 3.0 to 3.2 swap in DocJohn's "Bumblebee" 1996. Although this was an ODBII car already, we had to swap the throttle body since the plumbing was different and the ECU was not happy. The car runs great. Mypoint is when you swap keep the ECUndd intake system intact (original), and work from the heads inward for the swapped components. I also beleive the ECU will handle the .2 liter increase without an issue, but as I said, let me do a little homework.

Back to the original point though, you can fix your crank, resize the bearing and put it back together. BTW: Why do you need valves??

HTH,
LarryB
 
Larry,



Where did you get the crank work done? Where were the bearings sourced? Typical procedure (on non-NSX engines) is to turn a damaged crank 10 thousandths under and install “10 under” bearings. However, NO ONE makes these bearings. I can’t install what I can’t find. But, if you have a source, I would love to meet them, seriously. Sourcing these parts will save my $2,000.



Also, my mechanic swears that turning the crankshaft down removes the factory chroming (obviously). The resulting surface is not hard enough and the eventually the bearing will fail again. At that point the engine becomes a very expensive paperweight.



My other concern is sourcing any computer changes (like the throttle by wire in the 1998 source vehicle), OBD, ECU, and related wiring harnesses. Getting the engine is one thing. Swapping it in is another.



The intake, throttle body, exhaust and related ‘externals’ parts are not big deals. I have competent people to figure that out.

New exhaust valves are needed because they are burned. I have nitrous.

Also, the 1st ring land on 4 of the pistons are squashed, which means new slugs and rings as well.
 
Im in no need of buying an engine, my 02 is running just fine. HOwever, im very curious where you got a lead for a 98 motor with transmission, manifolds, etc for only $7500 including shipping ! That seems very cheap ! Especially compared to 13k for a rebuild !

Would you mind sharing this website/place with us ? Im just curious..
 
MichaelJames said:
Larry,

Where did you get the crank work done? Where were the bearings sourced? Typical procedure (on non-NSX engines) is to turn a damaged crank 10 thousandths under and install “10 under” bearings. However, NO ONE makes these bearings. I can’t install what I can’t find. But, if you have a source, I would love to meet them, seriously. Sourcing these parts will save my $2,000.
Click to expand...

You don't want to just "turn the crank 0.010". You want to measure how out-of-round it is, and remove the minimum amount required to make that journal round. Honda makes oem bearings and several different sizes. You can use the bearing color chart (found in the helms) to get the right half shells to produce the clearances you want. If the bearings are still too thin, you can get aftermarket bearing such as ACL (they do come in different sizes - their "standard" set is equivalent to OEM honda greens) - we use those on our race motors with no problems.

Also, my mechanic swears that turning the crankshaft down removes the factory chroming (obviously). The resulting surface is not hard enough and the eventually the bearing will fail again. At that point the engine becomes a very expensive paperweight.
Click to expand...


You're mechanic is right. OEM honda cranks have a coating on the main and rod journals (i can't recall the thickness off the top of my head, but it should be in the helms). If you have to remove more than the service limit to bring the journal back into spec, then you might as well buy a new crank as you would be going completely through the coating. (I believe the thickness of the coating is less than 0.005", i'll have to check)
 
The info I posted was the result of a bad crank, that was rewelded and brought back to the ORIGINAL diameter crank journal. This can be done, if you have a machinist/crank shop that is experienced at it. The journal was NOT undersized by grinding it.

I had not done this on an NSX crank before, but there were also many stories in my past life(Porsche) about crank cutting, and what a no-no it was, but I saw it done over and over again by experienced crank shops.

I will also get you the name of the shop in NJ that did this crank work. Sounds like it would be worth the shipping cost!! If for some reason that does not work out, I do have a perfect 3.0 crankshaft. PM me your e-mail address for pics, if you like. Bearings can be sourced from Honda by going to any Acura dealer. Let me know if you need info on bearing P/N's. Sizing the bearings is some work, but quite doable.

C-Speed,

Do you see a reason why the above is not doable? Do you feel rewelding the journal, cutting to original spec, then polishing is a problem? Frankly, there are very few placing I trust with this kind of work. I used to go to a place that did this all the time, but the crank machinist passed away, and the place closed. That was many years ago, and the shop I am talking about in this thread was found by a good friend who lost an NSX crank as mentioned above. I really would like additional input from you on this. Thanks.

Andrie,

What I meant was to use the 3.2 block and 3.2 heads, but from the intake ports upward and the exhaust ports downward, you would use the OBDI cable/throttle body, headers etc. from the original 1992 car:).

Again, I will continue to do some homework on the swap to be 100% sure.

HTH,
LarryB
 
Last edited:
Lke C-Speed says..as long as the amount of machining on the crank to get it back in line still allows you to use OEM Honda Bearings (according to the chart) and you can maintain the correct clearances, you're fine.

What you need to retrieve is the Letters/Numbers etched on your crank and rods tell you what the original bearing sizes are

For instance on the end of the crank (assumption) there should be something like:
BCCD for the mains (4 mains right?)
123212 for the rods

and on your rods letters or numbers as well. Cross ref against the bearing charts to see where you start from to get a general idea of if fixing the crank is even possible..if it is using brown or black bearings (thick) out of the factory you may be SOL and you can skip going to a machine shop.
 
Top-end build...

Seems to be a nice "built" motor...

Acura NSX 3.2ltr Engine
~$8,000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8015888145&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Fresh and ready to install 3.2ltr late model Engine - Will fit all year NSXs.

Engine was specifically designed for high performance endurance racing or boosted applications, however would be just as good as a strong street engine. Low reserve considering the parts and labor that are in this engine. Description of this enhanced engine and additions are as follows:

 New Main Bearings
 Fresh Line Hone
 Polished Crank
 New Rod Bearings
 New Piston and Rod Assembly
 New Piston Rings
 Pistons Cut for Valve Clearence and 9000+ RPM Over-Rev Protection
 Cometic Head Gasket
 Surface Cut Block
 High Volume Oil Pump
 High Pressure Oil Relief Spring
 Balanced Rotating Assembly
 Cylinder Hone and Surface Plating
 ARP Head Studs
 New Timing Belt
 Heim Link Belt Tensioner
 Comptech Adjustable Cam Gears
 Degreed Cams
 Improved Intake Manifold Modification
 Surface cut Heads
 New KLH dual Valve Springs Intake and Exhaust
 New KLH Titanium Valve Retainers
 New Valve Seals
 New Ferrea Machined Valve Keepers
 New Light Weight Stainless Steel Turbo Grade Ferrea Valves Intake and Exhaust
 Valve Pocket Bowl Machining
 Fresh Valve Job
 
Do you see a reason why the above is not doable? Do you feel rewelding the journal, cutting to original spec, then polishing is a problem? Frankly, there are very few placing I trust with this kind of work.
Click to expand...


I would not recommend welding and regrinding - EVER. Simply polishing the journal after a reweld will not work as it will not have the cromoly friction coating on it as the factory journal would have.

At this point, this is what I would recommend - before jumping the gun, have the journals inspected for out-of-roundness. If they are NOT out of round (if you're lucky) and they are simply scored from the spun bearing, then just have the journal(s) polished to remove the high spots.

If the journal(s) are indeed out-of-round, then depending on how much out-of-round it is, the options have already been listed above. :)

Here's the bearing color chart:
bearings1.jpg


bearings2.jpg


Also, if you are planning on sizing the bearings yourself (very easy to do), here's a guide from our website on how to do it. Its for a Honda/Acura B-series motor, but the process is still the same.

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/bearings/bearings.php

Enjoy.
 
Larry Bastanza said:
T
Andrie,

What I meant was to use the 3.2 block and 3.2 heads, but from the intake ports upward and the exhaust ports downward, you would use the OBDI cable/throttle body, headers etc. from the original 1992 car:).

Again, I will continue to do some homework on the swap to be 100% sure.

HTH,
LarryB
Click to expand...

Larry, I understand what you are saying. I'm giving another option of keeping the 3.0 head. IIRC, Comptech explained the advantage/side effect of doing this is increased compression.
 
Andrie,

Thanks for clarification:). Hope all is well with you. We must talk soon.

C-Speed,

Thanks for the info. I will further investigate this and write back. I will talk to the machinist exactly about your point and get a response.

Thanks,
LarryB
 
What modifications or additional "stuff" would I need to make to drop in this 3.2 engine and replace my 3.0 engine?? I have a 1992.


**********************************

Seems to be a nice "built" motor...

Acura NSX 3.2ltr Engine
~$8,000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...TRK:MEWA:IT

Fresh and ready to install 3.2ltr late model Engine - Will fit all year NSXs.

Engine was specifically designed for high performance endurance racing or boosted applications, however would be just as good as a strong street engine. Low reserve considering the parts and labor that are in this engine. Description of this enhanced engine and additions are as follows:

 New Main Bearings
 Fresh Line Hone
 Polished Crank
 New Rod Bearings
 New Piston and Rod Assembly
 New Piston Rings
 Pistons Cut for Valve Clearence and 9000+ RPM Over-Rev Protection
 Cometic Head Gasket
 Surface Cut Block
 High Volume Oil Pump
 High Pressure Oil Relief Spring
 Balanced Rotating Assembly
 Cylinder Hone and Surface Plating
 ARP Head Studs
 New Timing Belt
 Heim Link Belt Tensioner
 Comptech Adjustable Cam Gears
 Degreed Cams
 Improved Intake Manifold Modification
 Surface cut Heads
 New KLH dual Valve Springs Intake and Exhaust
 New KLH Titanium Valve Retainers
 New Valve Seals
 New Ferrea Machined Valve Keepers
 New Light Weight Stainless Steel Turbo Grade Ferrea Valves Intake and Exhaust
 Valve Pocket Bowl Machining
 Fresh Valve Job
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