East Coast and West Coast circuits

[Andrie Hartanto]

Watkins Glen was my first time ever in any of the circuit outside California and Nevada. It seem like it has lots of fast corners and the the average speed is higher than any track I've ever been in. And I've been hearing about how fast Road America is and some other track in the eastern of us.

Are the tracks on the eastern region than ours are typically high speed circuits?

 

[VBNSX]

I think the best person to ask about that would be Mark B... he's been all over the east and west coast...

maybe he'll chime in on this.. hint.. hint..

x

 

[MarkB]

Andrie,

Xavier is right, I have driven quite a few tracke on both the east and west coast and in between. I find that there is a mix of track speeds and track skill levels in just about all areas of the country. WGI is indeed a fast track. Mid-Ohio isn't as fast but is more technically challenging. RA, I thought, was the track that is most nearly a perfect match for a SC'd NSX.

 

[nsxtasy]

Are the tracks on the eastern region than ours are typically high speed circuits?

So you don't want to consider discussing the tracks in the Midwest, or in the South Central part of the country, only the ones on the East Coast? Fine, then don't talk about Road America...

(Just because a place is east of California, doesn't mean it's in the East.)

 

[Edgemts]

It all depends on what you want to call fast.
I have raced on most of the tracks in the US and a couple in the UK.
If you want to talk about the fastest corners in the country, you have to look at Brainerd turn 1, on the gas 160mph++++ into and through turn 1.(I've been 187mph, Miquel went 198mph at the end of the front straight, slightly off the gas to turn in then back on the throttle)
Willow Springs turn 8, long down hill aproach to a 150mph right turn that seems to never end.
Most long Straights- Road America- 3 long straights, but is has a lot of slower 90deg turns.
Most time at Full throttle- Daytona
Best tracks-IMO
(I like fast flowing corners)
Donington Park- :smile: oops not in the US
Road Atlanta
Willow Springs- Track not facility
VIR

 

[VBNSX]

It all depends on what you want to call fast.
I have raced on most of the tracks in the US and a couple in the UK.
If you want to talk about the fastest corners in the country, you have to look at Brainerd turn 1, on the gas 160mph++++ into and through turn 1.(I've been 187mph, Miquel went 198mph at the end of the front straight, slightly off the gas to turn in then back on the throttle)
Willow Springs turn 8, long down hill aproach to a 150mph right turn that seems to never end.
Most long Straights- Road America- 3 long straights, but is has a lot of slower 90deg turns.
Most time at Full throttle- Daytona
Best tracks-IMO
(I like fast flowing corners)
Donington Park- :smile: oops not in the US
Road Atlanta
Willow Springs- Track not facility
VIR

Geeze mike.. i knew you raced but not THAT much.. my gawd.. :tongue:

x

 

[nsxtasy]

I have driven quite a few tracke on both the east and west coast and in between. I find that there is a mix of track speeds and track skill levels in just about all areas of the country.

Me too, and I agree.

There are two entirely different ways of considering whether a track is generally fast or slow: the speed down the straights (which is a function of their length) and the speed through the turns (which is a function of how tight they are, i.e. their radius). There are tracks like Road America (which is in the Midwest, not the East ), which has long, long straights connecting relatively tight turns, and tracks like Mid-Ohio (which is also in the Midwest, not the East ), which has shorter straights (only one really long one) connecting relatively fast turns. Which would you describe as the "faster" track? You can make a case for either, but people generally refer to Road America as a fast track because the distance between the turns is so long, even though most of the turns are fairly sharp.

With the NSX, you want to be in the lowest gear possible at all times. The faster the striaghts, the higher the gear as you're going around them. The faster the turns, the higher the gear as you're going around them.

Here is some information on gear selection for various tracks using a stock '91 NSX, that will give you some idea of how fast the straights AND turns are:

Road America (Midwest) - 14 corners
Number of straights using 4th gear: 3
Number of turns using 2nd gear: 8

Mid-Ohio (Midwest) - 14 corners
Number of straights using 4th gear: 1
Number of turns using 2nd gear: 8

GingerMan (Midwest) - 11 corners
Number of straights using 4th gear: 0
Number of turns using 2nd gear: 10-11

Grattan (Midwest) - 11 corners
Number of straights using 4th gear: 0-1
Number of turns using 2nd gear: 11

Putnam Park (Midwest) - 10 corners
Number of straights using 4th gear: 0
Number of turns using 2nd gear: 11

Watkins Glen (Northeast) - 11 corners
Number of straights using 4th gear: 1
Number of turns using 2nd gear: 1

 

[mystican]

Actually,

I believe the fastest track out there is a small 2 mile closed circuit course called Nelson Ledges ( northest OHIO )...I know the place like the back of my hand. I have seen its evolution since 1995...very fast track...I recently took my 1991 NSX (comptech headers and exhaust) this past summer and did 120 mph approaching the "kink". This was conservative driving and 15 year old stock 1991 OEM shocks. What a blast. I have actually driven the track in the reverse direction and it is even faster. I know that a lot of people dont even go to this track because of its poor repair, but it is now under new mgmt and the track is much better maintained. I have instructed at this venue and others (VIR, Watkins, Texas, Beaver Run etc) and I have always felt that Nelson's is the fastest, period!

Ajay Sharma

 

[NSX-Racer]

Which would you describe as the "faster" track?

I would make it simple: Which track has the faster average speed? I guess everybody can calculate that from his personal best lap times.

 

[Elite]

Brainard is a very fast track, I have a lot of time on it. The main stright is 5200 ft long and is preeceded by a reasonably fast entrance. At the end of the straight is a slightly banked long turn, which depending on how much power you make... you can take it at full throttle. Turn two is also fast but seems slightly off pitch... you need to let off a little after #1. Turn 3 through 9 are as tight is it gets at brainerd... comparably fast. There is a good write-up at this url:

http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/Brainerd.php

This coming year my goal is to get to RA at least once. I want to see how "fast" it is

 

[nsxtasy]

I believe the fastest track out there is a small 2 mile closed circuit course called Nelson Ledges ( northest OHIO )...

Those who judge whether a track is "fast" by its fastest speed, which usually occurs on the longest straight, will not find Nelson Ledges to be fast. The reason for this is quite obvious from its layout, below (click image for a larger version).

I have driven 23 different tracks, and if I rank those based on how much fun they are to drive, Nelson Ledges ranks 23. (Although sometimes I wonder whether it does a disservice to number 22, Blackhawk Farms, to rank it over anything.) In case you're wondering, numbers 1, 2, and 3 are Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta, and Grattan...

This coming year my goal is to get to RA at least once. I want to see how "fast" it is

Road America is the only track I've driven on which there is a straight (sufficiently long to straighten the car out and move it from one side of the track to the other if need be) between every pair of turns, without any "sequences" where the trackout of one turn is the entry to the next. (Not counting the recently-installed optional chicane that bypasses the kink.)

Nelson Ledges layout:

 

[Edgemts]

Actually,

I believe the fastest track out there is a small 2 mile closed circuit course called Nelson Ledges ( northest OHIO )...I know the place like the back of my hand. I have seen its evolution since 1995...very fast track...I recently took my 1991 NSX (comptech headers and exhaust) this past summer and did 120 mph approaching the "kink". This was conservative driving and 15 year old stock 1991 OEM shocks. What a blast. I have actually driven the track in the reverse direction and it is even faster. I know that a lot of people dont even go to this track because of its poor repair, but it is now under new mgmt and the track is much better maintained. I have instructed at this venue and others (VIR, Watkins, Texas, Beaver Run etc) and I have always felt that Nelson's is the fastest, period!

Ajay Sharma

You say 120mph into the kink.
Vir two weekends ago I was doing 145 down the back straight and ~135 on the front straight and I was not pushing my braking points at all.

Of all the race tracks I have raced on I would have to say that Willow Springs gives you the greatest sensation of speed and requires the biggest b@@lls to go fast. If you dont watch the flags(on the flag polls) in the center of the 8-9 complex you can easily be blown off the race track at 160mph+.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]
WSIR Auto Lap Records
Driver Sanc. Car Time Year Avg.
Michael Andretti CART Indycar 01:06.050 3/87 136 mph
Nigel Mansell FISA F/1 01:06.300 2/82 136 mph
Rocky Moran IMSA GTP 01:08.760 4/89 131 mph
Craig T. Nelson PSCR World Sports Car 01:10.001 8/97 130 mph
Case Montgomery SCCA F/Atlantic 01:10.019 2/96 129 mph
Claude Bourbonnais CART Indy Light 01:10.122 8/97 130 mph

136 mph in 1987.
The track is now a lot faster, 130mph in a sports car!!!! In 1997
By the way the fastest parts of the track is turn 8 not the front straight.
Most of the track would be 3-4 gear for an NSX I believe you would only go into second for the 4-5-6 complex which is short and maybe turn one if not up to pace.
I am hoping to take my NSX to Willow and maybe Laguna in 2005.
Anyone in Rosemond/LA area wish to comment on Willow??????

 

[nsxtasy]

Of all the race tracks I have raced on I would have to say that Willow Springs gives you the greatest sensation of speed and requires the biggest b@@lls to go fast.

That's how I would describe Watkins Glen.

I have driven 23 different tracks, and if I rank those based on how much fun they are to drive, Nelson Ledges ranks 23. (Although sometimes I wonder whether it does a disservice to number 22, Blackhawk Farms, to rank it over anything.) In case you're wondering, numbers 1, 2, and 3 are Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta, and Grattan...

I'm forgetting one of them, but here's the rest of the list, in order:

Mid-Ohio (OH) - 4 stars
Road Atlanta (GA) - 3.5 stars
Grattan (MI) (counterclockwise) - 3.5 stars
Grattan (MI) (clockwise) - 3 stars
Watkins Glen (NY) - 3 stars
Infineon (CA) - 3 stars
Laguna Seca (CA) - 3 stars
Putnam Park (IN) - 3 stars
Spring Mountain Motorsports Park (NV) - 3 stars
GingerMan (MI) - 2.5 stars
Motorsports Ranch (TX) - 2.5 stars
Road America (WI) - 2.5 stars
Indianapolis Raceway Park (IN) - 2.5 stars
Bridgehampton (NY) - 2.5 stars
Waterford Hills (MI) - 2 stars
BeaveRun (PA) - 2 stars
Gateway International (IL) (old course) - 2 stars
Gateway International (IL) (oval/infield) - 2 stars
Texas Motor Speedway (TX) (oval/infield) - 2 stars
Michigan International Speedway (MI) (oval/infield) - 1.5 stars
Blackhawk Farms (IL) - 1 star
Nelson Ledges (OH) - 1 star

 

[docjohn]

I agree that the simple way to rank tracks in order of speed would be to calculate the average speeds.Simply take the average lap times vs total track length to find speed.Of course the best would be to have the same drivers times to maintain consistancy but all of us track guys know what solid times are for our local tracks.Assuming NA motor, at the glen(long course) a good driver on street tires should do 2:20; on track tires 2:17.At lime rock 1:05,and 1:03.So the average speed at the glen in our example is about 83 mph were as at lrp about 68 mph.Howsabout some other times?

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

So you don't want to consider discussing the tracks in the Midwest, or in the South Central part of the country, only the ones on the East Coast? Fine, then don't talk about Road America...

(Just because a place is east of California, doesn't mean it's in the East.)

I call everything to the right of mine is on the East

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

It all depends on what you want to call fast.
I have raced on most of the tracks in the US and a couple in the UK.
If you want to talk about the fastest corners in the country, you have to look at Brainerd turn 1, on the gas 160mph++++ into and through turn 1.(I've been 187mph, Miquel went 198mph at the end of the front straight, slightly off the gas to turn in then back on the throttle)
Willow Springs turn 8, long down hill aproach to a 150mph right turn that seems to never end.
Most long Straights- Road America- 3 long straights, but is has a lot of slower 90deg turns.
Most time at Full throttle- Daytona
Best tracks-IMO
(I like fast flowing corners)
Donington Park- :smile: oops not in the US
Road Atlanta
Willow Springs- Track not facility
VIR

What car can reach 198mph at Brainerd end of front straight?

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

I find the Glen is much more exciting than Willow Springs. Sure Willow Springs is fast, but the turns are not that challenging compare to the Glen. In the back straight at Glen one can reach 135mph (with mildly mod NSX) before the chicane, and gone through the esses at around 120mph. That is a a rush.

If you want to take fast turn, CA speedway bank turn is much more ball busting than Willow Springs. And with the wall right next to you at the exit carrying more than 150mph (with mildly mod NSX)

 

[Elite]

As far as 198 on the straight... I assume he is speaking of a bike... since they race there. I have personally hit 160ish on the front straight, slowing to about 130ish for turn 1 if I remember correctly.

 

[Edgemts]

As far as 198 on the straight... I assume he is speaking of a bike... since they race there. I have personally hit 160ish on the front straight, slowing to about 130ish for turn 1 if I remember correctly.

Correct- I was on one of my race bikes, but I would have to think that a Daytona Prototype would come close to 200 mph and would not slow too much for turn one with the proper down force.

As far as Willow vs Watkins, I can't give you my opinion because I have not raced on Watkins.
If you want to talk about Challenging thats a completely different thing.
I just like Willow mainly for turns 8-9 and 2, all very high speed, wide and long enough that you can get into long 2 or 4 wheel drifts. Its not a hard track to learn or to go moderately fast its just that gut check trying to pick up time and stay flat footed going into and through 8 all the time knowing that if the wind catches you at the wrong time pushing a little to much?? :biggrin: ??

If you want technical, you are going to like the new Shenandoah Circuit at Summit Point, Its just going to eat a lot of cars. (I quess like Watkins)
I spent the day on it a few weeks ago, only problem is its a 8/10th's track.
I like the ability to be at 10/10 and not having to worry about a concrete wall less than a foot away.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

What I mean about the Glen is also that hold on to your balls kinda feeling. Going through the esses at 120+mph in almost stock NSX with armco on your left and right is more than gut wrenching.

What is an 8/10th track? I never thought there is such track. I always give it all I got in a race, no matter if there are walls or not. On HPDE is another thing, though.

 

[Edgemts]

What I mean about the Glen is also that hold on to your balls kinda feeling. Going through the esses at 120+mph in almost stock NSX with armco on your left and right is more than gut wrenching.

What is an 8/10th track? I never thought there is such track. I always give it all I got in a race, no matter if there are walls or not. On HPDE is another thing, though.

Racing is Racing 11/10ths, but track days/ testing etc on some tracks require a little more reservation than others.
As far as racing goes there could be a drop off at the edge of the track and it wouldnt really matter to me during the race, if you fall off you lost.
Same goes for walls, but even though I have a track only NSX, I am not in a hurry to see how the aluminum holds up scraping against concrete. I would rather take my chances in the grass or in a gravel trap after having a little too much fun :biggrin:

Have you driven Willow Much?
I would think it would be great for the NSX, I love it on 2 wheels, need to get out there on 4.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

I've been to Willow Springs of total 3 weekends. Not my favourite track, but mostly because the facility. The track doesn't do it much for me. I don't know why, but I always thought the track is kinda bland.

 

[2slow2speed]

Hmm.. from what I recall a SoCal NSX owner totalled his NSX at Willow Springs a while back, not good

As far as puke factor goes going downhill on the front straight and then into the esses with the NSX at WOT at Reno-Fernley is pretty scary too. Laptimes in the 1:29 range for a 2.4 mile track on a NA NSX that's pretty fast , that was Andrie, kip was into the 1:26.xx with a CTSC NSX, I was still in the 1:31's, (just making sure that I could drive my car back from NV to CA )

Ken

 

[2slow2speed]

Hmm.. from what I recall a SoCal NSX owner totalled his NSX at Willow Springs a while back, not good

As far as puke factor goes, going downhill on the front straight and then into the esses with the NSX at WOT at Reno-Fernley is pretty scary too. Laptimes in the 1:29 range for a 2.4 mile track on a NA NSX that's pretty fast , that was Andrie, kip was into the 1:26.xx with a CTSC NSX, I was still in the 1:31's, (just making sure that I could drive my car back from NV to CA )

Ken

 

[RacerX-21]

I don’t often watch the Speedo until after someone asks but I have some miscellaneous facts.

Mont Tremblant (Canada) Probably has the fastest average speed, most of the course is high speed. No MPH

Daytona seems to have the longest straight if you include the full throttle banked oval, then minimal infield like most “Rovals”, and back to the other oval. It may have one of the highest average speeds. Oh… I don’t like ovals yet, so I cant say I ever looked at my max speed.

Road Atlanta has a couple of fast straights, especially when you can take 12 full throttle from turn 10.

But unless Daytona has a faster top speed, I have to say VIR. It has two 185 mph straights. The N/A Cup car even does 150+

NSXTASY, based on the style of your rating scale… your going to love VIR! Sebring and Canada would also be good additions.