John McCain Racing said:
From my recollection, the NA1 cable throttle makes the engine more 'tunable' VS. the NA2's drive-by-wire.
Early NSX vs. Late NSX
- Thread starter robl45
- Start date
From my recollection, the NA1 cable throttle makes the engine more 'tunable' VS. the NA2's drive-by-wire.
I'm going to pretend I didn't read the Lambo door thing.<----Big_D said:If I am not mistaken, the early cars have a different Engine Control Unit which allows you to change out the chips in favor of a more performance one.
My 91 doesn't have a notchy reverse, nor a problem with oil pressure gauge as suggested. The car is great the way it is now. The power is crisp and the handling is exceptional even without the power steering.
Add the 3.8 stroker motor and a 6 speed and leave the forced induction alone for reliability sake.
I'm going to pretend I didn't read the Lambo door thing...
+1 on what he said
and you dont even need a 6 speed swap.....all you need is short gears or OS GIKEN and you are fine.
I have a 91 and I love it....obd1 baby =)
But if you want a Targa then get a 97+
:wink:
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Modernceo said:
My 91 with Dali Exhaust, DC headers and Cantrell AIS (OEM airbox/filter) puts down 272 to the wheels. Therefore I gained 14 HP on your 02 with essentially the same mods.
I didn't say NA2 responds poorly to bolt-ons. I said NA1 responds better.
NSSEX91 said:
You mentioned a website that listed common NSX problems? Prime is the real world with real NSX owners sharing their problems. If I haven't seen it here on Prime it isn't a problem. BTW, please post the link anyway.
You are 100% wrong about the NA2 motor. Also, please point out anyone who has a NA2 with over 300HP with bolt-ons.
That's just not possible. That would mean an approximately 50 RWHP increase over stock with intake/headers/exhaust/chip. 
Time to stop being "lazy" and gather some evidence. I can't wait to see it.
Before posting RWP, the type of Dyno should be posted for better understanding.
I had a 95 NSX T. Stock everything
I now have a 03 NA motor with few engine bolt-on mods.
The car was dyno' before my Mugen AIS
Blue Graph: With bolt on mods: Comptech Unifilter, Fujitsubo Header, Test Pipes, GT-One v.2 Titanium Exhaust.
Red Graph: With GT-One v.2 Titanium Exhaust and Comptech Unifilter only
302 RWP and 233lb/ft torque.
This may be an isolated, one off result. But my belief is the late 02 spec NSX has more than 290 advertised hp. But some have challenged my investigation/belief.
Jason, NSXSUPRA has a NA1, standard gearing with CTSC, we test drove each other's cars. We both agreed my first gear is slower, but second and third gear are very very close.
Similar conclusion fron few other NSXers who drove my car at the SCA monthly meeting.
According to Autowave. % of HP gain on NA2 with standard boost CTSC will is greater than NA1. For example, many NA1 with CTSC dyno' around 320 to 350, and most of the NA2 dyno' around/over 380.
However, Early NA1 with OBDI will be easier to tune if you want to do extreme mods. Danny's Turbo NSX was dyno' at 677hp, but required some serious internal engine mods.
It's a toss up. Depend on what you want to do and how much you want to spend, result will be very different.
I had a 95 NSX T. Stock everything
I now have a 03 NA motor with few engine bolt-on mods.
The car was dyno' before my Mugen AIS
Blue Graph: With bolt on mods: Comptech Unifilter, Fujitsubo Header, Test Pipes, GT-One v.2 Titanium Exhaust.
Red Graph: With GT-One v.2 Titanium Exhaust and Comptech Unifilter only
302 RWP and 233lb/ft torque.
This may be an isolated, one off result. But my belief is the late 02 spec NSX has more than 290 advertised hp. But some have challenged my investigation/belief.
Jason, NSXSUPRA has a NA1, standard gearing with CTSC, we test drove each other's cars. We both agreed my first gear is slower, but second and third gear are very very close.
Similar conclusion fron few other NSXers who drove my car at the SCA monthly meeting.
According to Autowave. % of HP gain on NA2 with standard boost CTSC will is greater than NA1. For example, many NA1 with CTSC dyno' around 320 to 350, and most of the NA2 dyno' around/over 380.
However, Early NA1 with OBDI will be easier to tune if you want to do extreme mods. Danny's Turbo NSX was dyno' at 677hp, but required some serious internal engine mods.
It's a toss up. Depend on what you want to do and how much you want to spend, result will be very different.
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Vancehu said:Before posting RWP, the type of Dyno should be posted for better understanding.
I had a 95 NSX T. Stock everything
I now have a 03 NA motor with few engine bolt-on mods.
The car was dyno' before my Mugen AIS
Blue Graph: With bolt on mods: Comptech Unifilter, Fujitsubo Header, Test Pipes, GT-One v.2 Titanium Exhaust.
Red Graph: With GT-One v.2 Titanium Exhaust and Comptech Unifilter only
302 RWP and 233lb/ft torque.
This may be an isolated, one off result. But my belief is the late 02 spec NSX has more than 290 advertised hp. But some have challenged my investigation/belief.
Jason, NSXSUPRA has a NA1, standard gearing with CTSC, we test drove each other's cars. We both agreed my first gear is slower, but second and third gear are very very close.
Similar conclusion fron few other NSXers who drove my car at the SCA monthly meeting.
Those are excellent numbers indeed. I should have amended my comments to address the 02-05 engine. I do believe there's something to those engines having a bit more power.
I stand firm that you will not find that kind of response from a 97-01 NA2 engine. Again, anyone please post their results. 300 RWHP from bolt-ons is very, very uncommon.
The 02+ NA2 is dynoed proven to have 10~15rwhp more than pre-97 NA2. That is another topic.NSSEX91 said:
The gearing advantage is equivalent to 20rwhp if even that.
Since you mentioned 97 NSX-T, let me use that as a base. I am not sure what you mean by a lot. I guess you can call .5sec in 1/4mile a lot. The hp gain from the 3.2L is offset by the weight gain. The gearing is where you get the difference in straightline performance, the sensation you get from the shorter 2nd gear is far more than the actual performance gain. The hp difference easily offset by the headers on NA1. NA2 already have very good header from the factory, most after market headers have minimal gain on NA2.
Take a look at the dyno of NA1 and pre-02 NA2 on the same dyno same day, not much of difference:
http://ojas.net/nsx/NSteXpo2005/DynoReport.html
I had done a test run with this Imola Orange 02+ NSX when my NSX was NA with only exhaust, basic weight reduction and cantrell AIS only performance mod.
His mod, Taitec JGTC exhaust, we did 0~115mph test with 5 other NSXers following from behind as witness. He had half car jump from the start and held the half car lead until 70mph, up top on the 2nd gear my NA1 5spd start to made up distance and started walking. I have driven this particular NSX as well.
No matter how nice the gearing, the power to weight ratio still play a bigger factor.
KSXNSX with 02+ silverstone had witnessed my NSX when pre-CTSC as well. NSXhan with 02+ also witnessed my NSX performing at the dragstrip.
I am sorry, but it's not even close, the standard SC will lower the 0~100mph on NA1 by around 2sec. 10sec vs 12.1~12.5sec.NSSEX91 said:
Most of the standard NA2 with bolt on will net you 270~280rwhp if you are lucky. There is no more than 5 NSX that make more than 300rwhp on just bolt ons in the nation. Vance is one of the few on the exclusive club, but even for Vance's almighty 02+ NSX it will have tough time against NA1 with standard CTSC. If it were any other NA2s with bolt ons, it will be really ugly, sorry guys, just fact.
First time I ever meet Vance in person, Vance asked me to do a few test runs, this is before he got header -8rwhp and me before I got headers -20rwhp. Standard CTSC vs powerful 02+ NA2
I have driven Vance's NSX and other NA2 NSXes, I can tell you Vance's is amazingly fast, easily the fastest NA2 I have experienced, 300rwhp+6spd is very darn fast anyway you drive it anyway you look at it. If you are expecting every NA2 to be like this, you are in for a huge disappointment.
I guarantee I can pull a 0~60mph in 4.4~4.5sec for sure in Vance's NSX without even trying too hard. If he add a standard CTSC he will have 390~400rwhp, the hp gain will translate to 5 car length 0~100mph over his current set up.
The absolute highest dyno I have seen for NA2 with standard CTSC is 392rwhp. Highest for NA1 with standard CTSC is 380rwhp, 374rwhp, and 371rwhp (me). In the end yes, you do walk away with more HP on 3.2L motor, but insignificantly amount.
325rwhp on standard boost is on older unit without headers for NA1.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you that the NA2 is a lot faster than NA1s, however nowhere near what you maded out to be.
If you take better care of your NSX and lose all the uncessary junk that slow you down, I can tell you it will make a big difference and make the gap smaller for you.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78212
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"I even think that a 98 coupe with few bolt ons will be just as fast as a 91-96 with a supercharger at stock psi."
With 5 coupes imported in 98, it might be a trick finding one for the test..........
NSXSUPRA said it best. His post should be placed in FAQ.:biggrin:
With 5 coupes imported in 98, it might be a trick finding one for the test..........
NSXSUPRA said it best. His post should be placed in FAQ.:biggrin:
Nicely said Jason!!:smile:nsxsupra said:The 02+ NA2 is dynoed proven to have 10~15rwhp more than pre-97 NA2. That is another topic.
The gearing advantage is equivalent to 20rwhp if even that.
Since you mentioned 97 NSX-T, let me use that as a base. I am not sure what you mean by a lot. I guess you can call .5sec in 1/4mile a lot. The hp gain from the 3.2L is offset by the weight gain. The gearing is where you get the difference in straightline performance, the sensation you get from the shorter 2nd gear is far more than the actual performance gain. The hp difference easily offset by the headers on NA1. NA2 already have very good header from the factory, most after market headers have minimal gain on NA2.
Take a look at the dyno of NA1 and pre-02 NA2 on the same dyno same day, not much of difference:
http://ojas.net/nsx/NSteXpo2005/DynoReport.html
I had done a test run with this Imola Orange 02+ NSX when my NSX was NA with only exhaust, basic weight reduction and cantrell AIS only performance mod.
His mod, Taitec JGTC exhaust, we did 0~115mph test with 5 other NSXers following from behind as witness. He had half car jump from the start and held the half car lead until 70mph, up top on the 2nd gear my NA1 5spd start to made up distance and started walking. I have driven this particular NSX as well.
No matter how nice the gearing, the power to weight ratio still play a bigger factor.
KSXNSX with 02+ silverstone had witnessed my NSX when pre-CTSC as well. NSXhan with 02+ also witnessed my NSX performing at the dragstrip.
I am sorry, but it's not even close, the standard SC will lower the 0~100mph on NA1 by around 2sec. 10sec vs 12.1~12.5sec.
Most of the standard NA2 with bolt on will net you 270~280rwhp if you are lucky. There is no more than 5 NSX that make more than 300rwhp on just bolt ons in the nation. Vance is one of the few on the exclusive club, but even for Vance's almighty 02+ NSX it will have tough time against NA1 with standard CTSC. If it were any other NA2s with bolt ons, it will be really ugly, sorry guys, just fact.
First time I ever meet Vance in person, Vance asked me to do a few test runs, this is before he got header -8rwhp and me before I got headers -20rwhp. Standard CTSC vs powerful 02+ NA2
I have driven Vance's NSX and other NA2 NSXes, I can tell you Vance's is amazingly fast, easily the fastest NA2 I have experienced, 300rwhp+6spd is very darn fast anyway you drive it anyway you look at it. If you are expecting every NA2 to be like this, you are in for a huge disappointment.
I guarantee I can pull a 0~60mph in 4.4~4.5sec for sure in Vance's NSX without even trying too hard. If he add a standard CTSC he will have 390~400rwhp, the hp gain will translate to 5 car length 0~100mph over his current set up.
The absolute highest dyno I have seen for NA2 with standard CTSC is 392rwhp. Highest for NA1 with standard CTSC is 380rwhp, 374rwhp, and 371rwhp (me). In the end yes, you do walk away with more HP on 3.2L motor, but insignificantly amount.
325rwhp on standard boost is on older unit without headers for NA1.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you that the NA2 is a lot faster than NA1s, however nowhere near what you maded out to be.
If you take better care of your NSX and lose all the uncessary junk that slow you down, I can tell you it will make a big difference and make the gap smaller for you.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78212
my1stnsx said:
Yes, thank you for the first-hand clarification. Excellent information.
the changes doesnt just stop after 97. every year there are improvements everywhere here and there.
02 and 03 are different. even 04 had changes.
a lot of important as well as hidden things. some obvious things people over look.
i wont tell you what the are. experience it for yourself.
02 and 03 are different. even 04 had changes.
a lot of important as well as hidden things. some obvious things people over look.
i wont tell you what the are. experience it for yourself.
You will reach redline a lot faster with 6spd but at a lower speed. That alone will give you a boost in sensation of speed. Combine that with actual performance gain, its a blast, but half of that is pure seat of pants.
Stock 5spd
1st gear 45mph
2nd gear 81mph
3rd gear 114mph
6spd
1st gear 47mph
2nd gear 74mph
3rd gear 102mph
There is 9mph difference during 1~2 shift. Which means it takes 5spd at least 1 additional sec to reach redline in 2nd vs 6spd, but at higher mph.
The first time I droved 6spd and combined with a powerful one, I was shocked, time it took to reach redline in 2nd is roughly the same as my supercharged NSX with stock 5spd. The only gear that have similar ratio is 1st.
The 2nd time, I did even bother looking at rpm, just speedometer, it gave me a much better indication of how the car actually performs.
It is a shame that they did not give us the same 5spd gear ratio as JDM NSX. Look at the reviews at the faq section. Very much speak for themselves.
Japanese 5-Speed With Stock 4.06 R&P
Acceleration is much faster. Usually when I upshift, I don't feel the car 'decelerate' (you know, the split second when you release the clutch, and shift... your head jerks forward because you're no longer accleration). Now, since I'm acclerating so much faster, the switch to next gear can be felt much more.
Stock 5spd
1st gear 45mph
2nd gear 81mph
3rd gear 114mph
6spd
1st gear 47mph
2nd gear 74mph
3rd gear 102mph
There is 9mph difference during 1~2 shift. Which means it takes 5spd at least 1 additional sec to reach redline in 2nd vs 6spd, but at higher mph.
The first time I droved 6spd and combined with a powerful one, I was shocked, time it took to reach redline in 2nd is roughly the same as my supercharged NSX with stock 5spd. The only gear that have similar ratio is 1st.
The 2nd time, I did even bother looking at rpm, just speedometer, it gave me a much better indication of how the car actually performs.
It is a shame that they did not give us the same 5spd gear ratio as JDM NSX. Look at the reviews at the faq section. Very much speak for themselves.
Japanese 5-Speed With Stock 4.06 R&P
Acceleration is much faster. Usually when I upshift, I don't feel the car 'decelerate' (you know, the split second when you release the clutch, and shift... your head jerks forward because you're no longer accleration). Now, since I'm acclerating so much faster, the switch to next gear can be felt much more.
Just like we don't need people who don't have an NSX telling other people to leave.Zenky said:
Jeez, I don't understand the negativity. First let me say I love this car, and I think I will be buying one soon.
Now, anyone talking about rice needs to seriously think about where the car comes from. I can understand this stuff over at the Corvette forum, but this is a japanese car after all.
And what do you guys have against Lambo doors? Especially a bolt on kit that can be reversed?
Now, anyone talking about rice needs to seriously think about where the car comes from. I can understand this stuff over at the Corvette forum, but this is a japanese car after all.
And what do you guys have against Lambo doors? Especially a bolt on kit that can be reversed?
If you do buy a NSX, it's yours to do whatever you want to it, you can put fart cans on it, cragar mags, lambo doors, hell whatever floats your boat. That being said, please don't get a NSX if you plan on doing those things, I've already had a heart attack, and if I see that destruction on such a beautiful car, I'd probably have another one.
enigma said:
I agree. Somebody tried to put Lambo doors on my NSX before I bought it. Absolutely hideous. I think if you want to "rice out" a japanese car you should go for something a little less special than an NSX.
get an 91 nsx and spend the money on the engine 
extra 40-50K would do wonders :biggrin:
extra 40-50K would do wonders :biggrin:
robl45 said:
If you feel this way don't let Prime members bother you--go ahead and do it. Do whatever you want to do with your car. It's yours, no one else's.
I can tell you that the vast majority of NSX owners and Prime members wouldn't dream of modifying the exterior of the car let alone a body kit or Lambo doors. The general feeling among us is that the NSX is the most beautiful car ever made and why mess with that?
So don't be discouraged by the responses here--that's what you're going to get among most NSX owners. If you want someone to say your body kit and Lambo doors are a brilliant idea just go to the Civic forums. Prime is one of the higher average-age car forums around. 35 year old guys aren't really into those kinds of mods, typically.
Big_D said:If I am not mistaken, the early cars have a different Engine Control Unit which allows you to change out the chips in favor of a more performance one.
My 91 doesn't have a notchy reverse
Add the 3.8 stroker motor and a 6 speed and leave the forced induction alone for reliability sake.
I'm going to pretend I didn't read the Lambo door thing...
Agreed.... my '91 is also great. No goofy oil pressure gauge, no notchy gearing.
robl45 said:
Bolt on Lambo doors or not the doors will never seat correctly when you change the geometry of the hinge. You are asking for wind noise and possibly damaged fenders from poor alignment. I'm not flaming you, I'm just trying to keep you from ruining your car. I am highly involved with a lot of people in all facets of the car business and everytime I see one these Lambo doors kits the car has some sort of issue.
