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But will it have battery technology better than my laptop?
Don't Expect a V-8 in Next Gen NSX
- Thread starter nsxtasy
- Start date
If we were to assume that the car was released for next year, then I would have to say no. Honda designs cars and not batteries. If we use the insight battery pack as a model, their solution is rather conventional. They turned to panasonic -- who provided them with a pack consisting of 120 D-size 6.5Ah NiHM cells. These are the same type of battery in most laptops -- just bigger.
With regards to how the IMA system works, you might also find the following page interesting:http://www.insightcentral.net/enmodes.html
Also check out: http://www.insightcentral.net/faq-quicktips.html
Note that you will have to alter your driving habits in order to take full advantage of the IMA system. These alterations may not be the most fun way to drive your brand new "no compromises sports car".
This worries me a bit since they put this description in this article and not the one about the orange NSX further back in the magazine.
Then again, hybrids are a serious compromise between performance and gas mileage so maybe they werent referring to the dualnote.
[This message has been edited by JoeSchmoe (edited 22 June 2002).]
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Los Angeles-- Despite the auto industry's revived interest in V-8 engines and rear-wheel-drive cars, Honda Motor Co. Ltd. will stand by its contrarian reputation and resist both trends, a top engineer says.
Honda says smaller engines and front-wheel-drive vehicles fit the company's environmental conscience. But some industry watchers say that V-8s and rwd cars would be too costly for Honda.
Tomoyuki Sugiyama, executive chief engineer of Honda R&D Co. Ltd., said Honda can make its V-6 engines powerful enough to take on V-8s and make its fwd platforms as performance-oriented as other automakers' rwd vehicles.
Read the rest of the article at:
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=39783
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Honda says smaller engines and front-wheel-drive vehicles fit the company's environmental conscience. But some industry watchers say that V-8s and rwd cars would be too costly for Honda.
Tomoyuki Sugiyama, executive chief engineer of Honda R&D Co. Ltd., said Honda can make its V-6 engines powerful enough to take on V-8s and make its fwd platforms as performance-oriented as other automakers' rwd vehicles.
Read the rest of the article at:
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=39783
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Except that they've been offering RWD cars for quite a while now...
No, my point had nothing to do with power to weight ratios. I'll assume that's a given. My point, and to me the single most important point of all these days, is just plain weight. If I want a super-fast over-weight car I'll get an M3 or an M5 and add a blower. Or a Vette, or a Mustang, or Supra. The NSX is already way over weight in my book but I realize that the safety and emissions control requirements, both legal and consumer demand driven, make it difficult to do much better. However, I don't need an extra few hundred pounds added for all the crap needed to build a dual powered car.
I’d bet that the difference between the regular Civic and the hybrid look small because the latter has had a lot of other weight tossed out. In some cases that’s a great thing but could just as easily be done for the regular car if they didn’t mind the expense. In other cases it is probably from reducing creature comforts, but people will go along because it seems like a small sacrifice. Now upsize that equipment to generate enough HP to be meaningful for an NSX supplemental system and the weight goes up.
Yes, I’d like to see a “super-light” NSX, but not then weighted back down by the electric crap. WEIGHT IS THE ENEMY!
On the one hand, I agree with you.
On the other hand... there are plenty of people who are more concerned about power than about weight or power-to-weight ratio, and will poo-poo an NSX with fewer horses than the competition even if it's light as heck. But I still agree with you.
Honda has been a rebel in the auto industry here for advocating greater environmental consciousness (if not conscience). This was documented in the June 12 article in the New York Times, which is summarized as follows:
Honda Takes Up Case in U.S. for Green Energy
By DANNY HAKIM (NYT)
ABSTRACT - Honda Motor Co is only major automaker that has not joined Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, industry group that has led fight against tougher fuel and emissions standards; Honda was only big automaker earlier this year that did not back industry advertising campaign that helped defeat Senate proposal to raise gasoline mileage standards for first time since 1980's; Honda is also not taking part in industry campaign against California bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions; Honda has told federal regulators that most sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks and minivans should meet much higher fuel standards required of passenger cars; company has led industry in development of fuel-saving technologies; chart; photo
Can they maintain that consciousness while continuing to develop cars that enthusiasts lust after? Well, they certainly have done so up until now, and I see no reason why they can't continue to do so. Why? It goes back to sjs's point above; enthusiasts and environmentalists both want lighter cars, because less weight increases performance and saves fuel.
I say, give them a chance to show us what's up their sleeve before stomping out the door. You might be pleasantly surprised.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 26 June 2002).]
Actually a system like this could be very usefull on the track. If they use re-generative braking (seems they would), the batteries would be recharged under heavy braking.
Imagine all the power you throw away when you brake now becomes useful. Now think of some of the other benifits, All wheel drive? And an increadible traction, active handling system could be designed (braking and accelereting on different wheels in turns).
So you could end up with a technological centerpiece that could out handle, out brake and possibly out accelerate most all sports cars on the road... Now image what this would do to the sales of Honda's mainstream hybrid cars? Thats why Honda would do it!
I think Ken is right, I doubt Honda is going to release a sports car (ie: NSX replacement) that is anything but the best.
Think outside of the box, it's not that scarry.
It sounds good in theory, but you seem to be missing the problem entirely.
The main issue is that NiMH batteries (or most batteries for that matter) usually need to be charged slowly. Used in the context of hard braking with regeneration, you will be trying to dump huge amounts of power into the batteries over a very short period of time. This will cause the batteries to over-heat, leak, or even rupture. This means that to maximize energy recovery, you must brake slowly and for long periods of time.
I just checked panasonic's website and apparently they recommend that the max charging rate for the 6.5Ah NiMH cells (ones in honda insight) is 1C or ~6.5A max. Discharge rates of 10C are common (and used on the insight). This means to safely recharge the batteries from regenerative braking alone, you must brake for over 10 seconds for every 1 second of WOT. Unless Im mistaken, you go a little faster with 10 seconds of WOT and 1 second of braking.
Unless Honda invents new battery technology, the DualNote will be subject to these same constraints that the insight and the hybrid civic were limited by.
Examining the facts for yourself rather than towing honda's marketing line is thinking outside of the box and the results aren't pretty.
[This message has been edited by JoeSchmoe (edited 26 June 2002).]
But wait! What if braking were to store energy by spinning up a big 300 lb flywheel, then when you get back on the gas it engages that to the front wheels and thrusts you forward! Talk about pulling out of corners, who cares about a few hundred extra pounds? And if it were designed right the flywheel could also act as a gyroscope to keep the car stable.
BTW, the above is not original, at least the first part is close to what has already been done. I'll be glad to use it in my beaters, I'm just not keen to see it in my sports car.
Originally posted by sjs:
And if it were designed right the flywheel could also act as a gyroscope to keep the car stable.
LOL. Or worse, your car would remain level (ie, front wheels in the air) while going down a hill
