dam didnt look at the date on it..
my bad for the thread dig up....
I'm a fan of the NSX by the way
my bad for the thread dig up....
I'm a fan of the NSX by the way
Dodge NEON Srt-4!
- Thread starter Steve
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Actually, Im glad you bumped this thing! It's an interesting little lesson in self-analysis to read my comments from back then given that, for some reason, my opinion has changed a lot lately. LOL... What can ya do. I guess I've gotten tired of being dusted by Neons 
Also, faced with the decision of spending the money and buying my car out (actually paying $80+k for the NSX), Ive decided that it really isnt worth that much cash compared with other cars in the range...
Also, faced with the decision of spending the money and buying my car out (actually paying $80+k for the NSX), Ive decided that it really isnt worth that much cash compared with other cars in the range...
so you have raced a few SRT's?
I have been dusted by a few that i have raced aswell... They were Stage 2 cars so i dont feel that bad but still...
Oh and im not sure i would be able to pass up a viper and pay the 80K for the new nsx...
I would however have no problems gettin a used one for 30-40K...
I have been dusted by a few that i have raced aswell... They were Stage 2 cars so i dont feel that bad but still...
Oh and im not sure i would be able to pass up a viper and pay the 80K for the new nsx...
I would however have no problems gettin a used one for 30-40K...
Nah, I was just kidding about the Neon thing. I don't race on the street, to be honest. Im just looking for more performance for my own personal satisfaction. I'm looking to stop my normal pattern of flipping cars every year and buy something to stick with. When considering the buyout on my 2003 lease, I have to admit that the $80k+ gave me pause. Im just not really sure my car is actually worth the $80k.
I also have to admit that I'm leaning very heavily towards a 2001 911TT I test drove.
I really like the Viper, but its too unusable to me. Probably the only two cars that could fit my bill would be a 911 or an NSX in that I want a daily driveable, high performance, true sportscar with some panache and exclusivity as well (and Im not embarassed to admit it). The Viper fails on the daily driveable test (for me). So does the Lotus Esprit, for that matter (which I also like, but couldnt see myself *really* using).
Dont forget, for $30-$40k you could get a used Viper as well which, as an SRT4 owner, I think youd be required to do!
I also have to admit that I'm leaning very heavily towards a 2001 911TT I test drove.
I really like the Viper, but its too unusable to me. Probably the only two cars that could fit my bill would be a 911 or an NSX in that I want a daily driveable, high performance, true sportscar with some panache and exclusivity as well (and Im not embarassed to admit it). The Viper fails on the daily driveable test (for me). So does the Lotus Esprit, for that matter (which I also like, but couldnt see myself *really* using).
Dont forget, for $30-$40k you could get a used Viper as well which, as an SRT4 owner, I think youd be required to do!
As much as I don't care for a Neon, let alone a Dodge vehicle, I'll admit that the new SRT-4 models have a lot of potential. I've seen a few cars, on stock internals and stock turbo, pushing up to 300 whp pretty easily. With more modifications and a larger turbo, 400+ whp. Not that most of us would care or bother to mess with a Neon on the road, if you see one with the factory hood scoop, be vary of it's true potential.
Been there, done that. I used to have a 92 Civic hatchback with a turbo B20 setup (years ago, back before the hype) and I was able to pull a best of 11.5 @ 119mph at the track on slicks, but mid-low 12s on drag radials (driven on daily). But of course I'd want to play it off saying it was a high 13 sec car, not to piss off the other person but just to be more humble and to go along with my business. If the other person really wanted to contest it, sure I'll open it up but otherwise I know what my car can do, I can careless what the other person can or can't do. If I came off right away saying I have an 11 sec car, people would get the immediate reaction that I was either cocky, arrogant, a liar, or all 3. The more you play it off, the less assumptions the other person will make. I do the same with my NSX.... people ask what I drive, I just say a Honda and an Acura and nothing more
Being in that area of So Cal, I've actually seen that same Neon a few times. In my hatchback (1 bucket, full cage), he just checks me out.... in my NSX, he wants to race me
Steve said:
Been there, done that. I used to have a 92 Civic hatchback with a turbo B20 setup (years ago, back before the hype) and I was able to pull a best of 11.5 @ 119mph at the track on slicks, but mid-low 12s on drag radials (driven on daily). But of course I'd want to play it off saying it was a high 13 sec car, not to piss off the other person but just to be more humble and to go along with my business. If the other person really wanted to contest it, sure I'll open it up but otherwise I know what my car can do, I can careless what the other person can or can't do. If I came off right away saying I have an 11 sec car, people would get the immediate reaction that I was either cocky, arrogant, a liar, or all 3. The more you play it off, the less assumptions the other person will make. I do the same with my NSX.... people ask what I drive, I just say a Honda and an Acura and nothing more
I Grok NSX said:Okay, I'm walking in to work (will be here in Ontario California for a couple of weeks doing an audit) and I pass a bright yellow Neon four door with a big wing on the trunk. I glance at the tag and this is what it reads: VIPR JR
Being in that area of So Cal, I've actually seen that same Neon a few times. In my hatchback (1 bucket, full cage), he just checks me out.... in my NSX, he wants to race me
NetViper said:
Are absolutely serious? You're joking right?
Would you complain if you bought 24 pack of beer and somehow there was 25 beers? Come on man.
Who in their right mind would sue for getting MORE than what you paid for? Only think I could think of is if someone couldn't 'handle' all that power... but that is a frivolous lawsuit if I ever saw one.
I know you are probably a little bitter that such a 'cheap' car can take a NSX. However like its been said on this forum 3974039875 times. The NSX isn't about straightline speed. Sports cars aren't about straightline speed. It's about the whole package. The speed, the handling, the style, and the sensation. This is why I believe great handling cars that aren't absolute power monsters attract a certain type of person. Someone seraching for more than outright horsepower or 1/4 mile times.
That's why I bought a Prelude instead of a camero, and that is why my next car will be a NSX.
Its a lose lose... If you race and lose its "oh man! that POS NSX got DUSTED by a (whatever)" if you win its "yeah, well, what do you expect??? that damn thing is $90k!!!".
Thats part of why I never take ANY bait on the street. You're really only providing entertainment for some schmuck 90% of the time (Ill conceed that maybe 10% of the time you have an honest enthusiast who appreciates the car they're challenging and just wants to see it run). And of course when you refuse to take the bait, you feed the "exotic car owners are snobs/elitists/no balls/all show, no go, etc. etc." Guess thats a lose/lose/lose
Thats part of why I never take ANY bait on the street. You're really only providing entertainment for some schmuck 90% of the time (Ill conceed that maybe 10% of the time you have an honest enthusiast who appreciates the car they're challenging and just wants to see it run). And of course when you refuse to take the bait, you feed the "exotic car owners are snobs/elitists/no balls/all show, no go, etc. etc." Guess thats a lose/lose/lose
KulSecHskY said:
This is true up to a point and makes sense since 99% of NSX owners at this point own used ones that they got for a steal. But when you think of the NSX as a brand, though, you HAVE to face the $90k car getting dusted by the $20k car problem. I must admit that this is a tough sell. The NSX really should be much quicker at this point. For what its worth, I think the basic 911 NA isnt nearly quick enough either. Both the NSX and the 911 NA should be down at around 4.5 0-60 with a solidly mid 12 1/4 bone stock. This would put comfortable distance even with most modded "hot hatches" and would be respectable enough that you could make the usual arguments of "total package" without it looking like an excuse...
KulSecHskY said:Are absolutely serious? You're joking right?
Would you complain if you bought 24 pack of beer and somehow there was 25 beers? Come on man.
No, I am not joking. Why is it OK for a company to misrepresent the amount of HP a car has? It doesn't matter if it is more or less, it is still incorrect. People are lawsuit happy as soon as they find out a car has less HP than advertised (miata, rx8 etc, cobra).
To me, especially in America, HP sells cars. Why would you not want to advertise the acutal HP instead of grossly underrating it. ie. NEON SRT4.
Nonetheless, when a $20K NEON can keep up with a 2004 $90K exotic car, it is time for that car to either go away or get a SERIOUS increase in power.
Personally, it does not bother me at all. I do not drag race my NSX though.
I just know I have seen and built some cheap cars that just flew - "sleepers" that always took people by surprise and ultimately won me money when I was a drag racer.
Those were not cars that I would have been comfortable driving everyday. But they did go real fast in a straight line and some of them handled well too. But not everyday drivers.
I am a little concerned about the cheap race cars being produced and the number of teenagers buying them and killing themselves and others as they still can't drive. But what can you do about that? Nothing. Sort of the "Darwinian" theory in practice I guess.
So who cares if a 20K cars can go 13 seconds in the 1/4 - if I wanted that, I would buy one.
I just know I have seen and built some cheap cars that just flew - "sleepers" that always took people by surprise and ultimately won me money when I was a drag racer.
Those were not cars that I would have been comfortable driving everyday. But they did go real fast in a straight line and some of them handled well too. But not everyday drivers.
I am a little concerned about the cheap race cars being produced and the number of teenagers buying them and killing themselves and others as they still can't drive. But what can you do about that? Nothing. Sort of the "Darwinian" theory in practice I guess.
So who cares if a 20K cars can go 13 seconds in the 1/4 - if I wanted that, I would buy one.
SRT-4 hauls ass..no question. They are already at over 500whp on a stock block.
Main problem is FWD and traction. From a roll you're dead. My friend just got one and went to the track...stock the best he could pull was 14.5 and the other SRT-4 guys were laighing at him. but rolling say good night they are fast cars. I don't care for the styling but give credit where it's due.
I didn't get an nsx for the all out 1/4 mile. It's a whole package, and that's what makes a supercar, rather than a straight up cheap dragger. Again to each his own.
Main problem is FWD and traction. From a roll you're dead. My friend just got one and went to the track...stock the best he could pull was 14.5 and the other SRT-4 guys were laighing at him. but rolling say good night they are fast cars. I don't care for the styling but give credit where it's due.
I didn't get an nsx for the all out 1/4 mile. It's a whole package, and that's what makes a supercar, rather than a straight up cheap dragger. Again to each his own.
SO THE LITTLE NEON MAY BE FASTER.......BUT WHEN CHICKS LOOK AT IT ALL THEY SEE IS A NEON, THE NSX IS AND WILL ALLWAYS BE A HEAD TURNER. EVER GOTTEN A NEON CONFUSED WITH A FERRARI?
KulSecHskY said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't insurance companies base premiums on HP among other things. I would like to think that they would be interested in a company that underrates its HP numbers, keeping insurance premiums down to less than they would normally. It's obvious that I am not in the insurance business, but am I crazy here.
jlindy said:Correct me if I am wrong, but don't insurance companies base premiums on HP among other things. I would like to think that they would be interested in a company that underrates its HP numbers, keeping insurance premiums down to less than they would normally. It's obvious that I am not in the insurance business, but am I crazy here.
I have asked that question many times. I agree with you, but most people seem to just think I am stupid for even suggesting that.
jlindy said:Correct me if I am wrong, but don't insurance companies base premiums on HP among other things. I would like to think that they would be interested in a company that underrates its HP numbers, keeping insurance premiums down to less than they would normally. It's obvious that I am not in the insurance business, but am I crazy here.
That's a great point, never thought of that. I'll let the insurance people deal with that, but as consumers I don't see what all the hooplah is about.
Just my opinion but I don't think I would ever complain if I recieved more of a desireable thing from a product I purchased.
NetViper said:
Now where exactly in this thread did you suggest that?
KulSecHskY said:
Now where exactly in this thread did you suggest that?
Not in this thread, but in past threads. Maybe before your time..
NetViper said:
Ahh, I see. I was thinking that haha.
I wonder is the HP "underrating" a result of horrible quality control? In other words, is Dodge saying "well, we're sure this thing will make a MINIMUM of xxx HP, but who the hell knows what the exact number will be?"
If so, I wouldnt brag about it either
The question is... Do all SRT4s make x HP more than claimed? Or is it that HP numbers are all over the map, but always more than the stated minimum? If it's the latter, that's kind of sad considering these things are made by robots on an assemblyline by the 10's of thousands...
If so, I wouldnt brag about it either
The question is... Do all SRT4s make x HP more than claimed? Or is it that HP numbers are all over the map, but always more than the stated minimum? If it's the latter, that's kind of sad considering these things are made by robots on an assemblyline by the 10's of thousands...
spookyp said:I wonder is the HP "underrating" a result of horrible quality control? In other words, is Dodge saying "well, we're sure this thing will make a MINIMUM of xxx HP, but who the hell knows what the exact number will be?"
If so, I wouldnt brag about it either
The question is... Do all SRT4s make x HP more than claimed? Or is it that HP numbers are all over the map, but always more than the stated minimum? If it's the latter, that's kind of sad considering these things are made by robots on an assemblyline by the 10's of thousands...
it was underrated on purpose.
Honda is doing the same thing with the 04 S2000 so I wouldn't agree with your quality suggestion.
satan_srv said:
I had heard that, but looking at the DYNO and also looking at its performance, I don't think it is underratted at all. It is slower than the old model.
satan_srv said:
So I guess the question is "why do that"?
It's idiotic isnt it? 99% of people dont go around dynoing $20k cars or moding them, so they'll NEVER know they got this "freebie". Furthermore, the US has no gentlemens agreement like Japan, so its not like Dodge isnt allowed to produce a high HP car.
Is Dodge just that stupid that they know they are producing cars that make a guaranteed percentage higher than what they claim but they refuse to raise the claim? I've heard of submitting "ringer" cars to mags for testing, but producing an entire line of "ringer" cars and not capitalizing on it???
Knowing that American buyers buy HP more than anything and dont typically care about balance, quality, reliability, etc. (this IS generally true in the US), how would they POSSIBLY be served by *underrating* HP?
If its true that its intentional, its the dumbest thing I've ever heard and it doesnt seem to be true of any of the high end cars (the Viper tends to dyno as what you'd expect). Very odd that this "deliberate" underrating seems to only effect the super budget cars like the Neon and Mustang.
I think Ferrari has been known to do that... Not sure about the Benzes, btw. Or at least, not the AMGs. They backup their HP figures with real numbers on the track. They have several models in the mid 12's bone stock with automatic transmissions, and these are heavy cars (except the SLK32 AMG).
I have a friend with an SRT-4 and it is lightly modded and very fast. I look at that as a pretty neat accomplishment for Chrysler, but I still would never buy one. Why? Well, it is still a Neon. The interior is still cheap (except the seats, which are very cozy), and in about 2 years that car will be a rattle trap. Oh yeah, did I mention that his motor is already having problems?? No Neon for me, thanks. I will stay with my NSX.
spookyp said:
Think about the target market. It's aimed at younger buyers generally looking for a tuner car. Fact is if you label it with 260+hp the insurance cost will be much higher and possibly put it out of reach for affordable ownership.
As for the S2000 I would suspect that they just wanted to sell it on more low end torque but surprise people with the extra hp. Or they just didn't want to put too many hits on the resale of the older models.
Also, how cars are marketed in the lineup is also a concern. For instance in 1999 the Honda Prelude Upped it's hp rating from 195 to 200. Fact is no changes were made to gain that power, actually no real changes were made from the 190hp 4th gen version either. They just made it up so that the new Accord V6 didn't have more hp than the Prelude. It was a perception thing, don't want the sports coupe to have less hp than the grocery getter version.
There's lots of factors that determine the difference between hp output and rated hp.
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