Dealer markup $10,000 and refusal to honor agreement at MSRP

OP, good luck.... but I think this is a waste of time. Get your $500 back and go through someone else like others have suggested.

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Does anyone know if all the allocations are now officially "spoken for," and if so, how many have been sold in the USA? I'm curious how many of these have been allocated to the US. I heard it was somewhere between 200-800...
 
Synth

Weare not going to have that info yet

Many of the Chicago dealers are holding their allocations until they can get folks to sign to for market adjustments. That is why I went out of state for mine. I think I will be lucky to receive my car in 5 to 8 months.

We also need to know how many dealers are in the NSX program. This could be done by building on line and than sending the spec to zip codes in all 50 states. We would then guesstimate by saying 3 allocation per dealer in the program.
 
Bricks and Bio said:
We also need to know how many dealers are in the NSX program. This could be done by building on line and than sending the spec to zip codes in all 50 states. We would then guesstimate by saying 3 allocation per dealer in the program.
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I read somewhere that there are about 270 Acura dealers.
I also read/heard that a dealer selling/servicing NSXs has to invest about $75K in equipment plus sales and service staff training.
I'm sure that would eliminate some smaller dealerships.
 
JD Cross said:
I read somewhere that there are about 270 Acura dealers.
I also read/heard that a dealer selling/servicing NSXs has to invest about $75K in equipment plus sales and service staff training.
I'm sure that would eliminate some smaller dealerships.
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Only "certified" NSX dealers may sell NSXs -- Acura dealers that do not become certified may not order/sell NSXs.

In order to become a "certified" NSX dealer, the dealer must have certain equipment necessary to service the NSX, which requires a substantial capital investment (the amount of the investment depends on the dealer's existing equipment). The dealership must also train one or more service techs to work on the NSX.

Many Acura dealerships have elected not to become certified to sell the NSX.

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I have not read the OP's documentation and, therefore, have no opinion regarding the merit of his claim. That said, this type of dispute is not unique. Many years ago, I was involved in a lawsuit involved the Ferrari F50. A buyer placed a large deposit to secure the first car received by a particular dealership at MSRP. The paperwork clearly supported his entitlement to the first F50 received by the dealership, and also clearly supported the MSRP purchase price. When the dealership received its first F50, the cars were fetching premiums well into the six figure range. Thus, the dealership told the buyer that, notwithstanding their written agreement, he would receive their second car. However, the dealership was not slotted to receive a second F50 for another 18 months. The buyer sued the dealership and sought an injunction to prevent the dealership from selling its first F50 to anyone else. I am prohibited from revealing any further details.

I too have encountered some unfortunate obstacles and inappropriate dealer conduct on my road to owning a NSX. I will post my trials and tribulations in a separate thread.
 
JD Cross said:
I read somewhere that there are about 270 Acura dealers.
I also read/heard that a dealer selling/servicing NSXs has to invest about $75K in equipment plus sales and service staff training.
I'm sure that would eliminate some smaller dealerships.
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The number is closer to $120K (US) from what I was told 2/26/16.
 
The F50 order mentioned above was a specific order on a specific model car in a completely different strata. Anyway, history now shows the F50 the least desirable of all modern Ferrari supercars - they are bargains and you can find one anytime you need one. Those who paid 6 figures over and still have them will tell you they made a big mistake.

OP: Give it up, get your deposit back and move on. Sorry but based on all you have posted you have no ground to stand on.

MSRP is SUGGESTED Retail Price. No dealership ever has to sell at the suggested price, MANY would love to sell at MSRP as most have to discount readily available cars below MSRP. Do you also complain when you have to pay below MSRP? It goes both ways. So the market determines where the car will sell above or below MSRP. Just like airplane tickets, concert tickets, Superbowl tickets, etc... if you want something people are waiting, bidding, and lining up for you have to pay the asking price or miss the show. Or in this case, wait a couple of years. This NSX will not be selling below invoice - it's not a Kia. If a retailer can sell a product above MSRP good for them in a modern market that has very thin margins. That is capitalism at its best!
 
from f30 bimmer site:

2017 Acura NSX Dealer Surcharge
For shits and giggles I walked into my local Acura dealer to get more details about 2017 NSX. First off the bat, the Sales Manager let me know that there would be a 12% "market adjustment" i.e. dealer mark-up above MSRP. Also, it would be about a 12 month wait from the time the order is placed to delivery. I would consider a lot of other cars before the NSX for $200k, but I thought I'd provide you my experience.
 
this happens every time an anticipated low volume sports car comes to market.....the dealer experience can be very different between jq public walking in vs a repeat customer with a relationship already established.
 
M Baker said:
The F50 order mentioned above was a specific order on a specific model car in a completely different strata. Anyway, history now shows the F50 the least desirable of all modern Ferrari supercars - they are bargains and you can find one anytime you need one. Those who paid 6 figures over and still have them will tell you they made a big mistake.

OP: Give it up, get your deposit back and move on. Sorry but based on all you have posted you have no ground to stand on.

MSRP is SUGGESTED Retail Price. No dealership ever has to sell at the suggested price, MANY would love to sell at MSRP as most have to discount readily available cars below MSRP. Do you also complain when you have to pay below MSRP? It goes both ways. So the market determines where the car will sell above or below MSRP. Just like airplane tickets, concert tickets, Superbowl tickets, etc... if you want something people are waiting, bidding, and lining up for you have to pay the asking price or miss the show. Or in this case, wait a couple of years. This NSX will not be selling below invoice - it's not a Kia. If a retailer can sell a product above MSRP good for them in a modern market that has very thin margins. That is capitalism at its best!
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What he said
 
M Baker said:
The F50 order mentioned above was a specific order on a specific model car in a completely different strata. Anyway, history now shows the F50 the least desirable of all modern Ferrari supercars - they are bargains and you can find one anytime you need one. Those who paid 6 figures over and still have them will tell you they made a big mistake.

OP: Give it up, get your deposit back and move on. Sorry but based on all you have posted you have no ground to stand on.

MSRP is SUGGESTED Retail Price. No dealership ever has to sell at the suggested price, MANY would love to sell at MSRP as most have to discount readily available cars below MSRP. Do you also complain when you have to pay below MSRP? It goes both ways. So the market determines where the car will sell above or below MSRP. Just like airplane tickets, concert tickets, Superbowl tickets, etc... if you want something people are waiting, bidding, and lining up for you have to pay the asking price or miss the show. Or in this case, wait a couple of years. This NSX will not be selling below invoice - it's not a Kia. If a retailer can sell a product above MSRP good for them in a modern market that has very thin margins. That is capitalism at its best!
Click to expand...

Please do tell me where I can pick up an F50, the least desirable Ferrari Supercar, anytime I want one. Last I checked, the 2 USA spec cars sold in 2015and early 2016 for 1,9M and 2.4M, or approx. 60% higher value than that of the F40. There are likely less than 50 copies of the USA F50 in the hands of collectors/enthusiasts. In recent years, Evo and Top Gear both favored the F50 when tested against all other Ferrari Supercars. Unlike the F40 or the Enzo, F50 is less understood due to very few motor journalists had the opportunity to test it when it was launched in 1995 . The F50 is certainly NOT the least desirable Ferrari Supercar as the value, the rarity, and availability would suggest....
 
brucewinter said:
now offered #1 MSRP plus $5,000. Getting closer. The dealership failed to communicate directly to my attorney. (not ethical)
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Sounds to me like the dealer's lawyer looked at the paperwork, made a judgement call and suggested to the dealer that they should attempt to work it out with you without lawyers involved.
That would be the best approach I think.

My experience is these matters suggests is once you have two lawyers involved you have no idea where it could end up.
Doubt you'd end up with number one NSX at MSRP, cause that car may have gone while the lawyers debate.
You might end up with an NSX at MSRP at some point.
Or could you end up with a cheque, being banned by the dealer, and no NSX.

The offer the dealer has made sounds like a fair compromise
I'd take it and get on with life.
 
Superfluous said:
Only "certified" NSX dealers may sell NSXs -- Acura dealers that do not become certified may not order/sell NSXs.

In order to become a "certified" NSX dealer, the dealer must have certain equipment necessary to service the NSX, which requires a substantial capital investment (the amount of the investment depends on the dealer's existing equipment). The dealership must also train one or more service techs to work on the NSX.

Many Acura dealerships have elected not to become certified to sell the NSX.

- - - Updated - - -

I have not read the OP's documentation and, therefore, have no opinion regarding the merit of his claim. That said, this type of dispute is not unique. Many years ago, I was involved in a lawsuit involved the Ferrari F50. A buyer placed a large deposit to secure the first car received by a particular dealership at MSRP. The paperwork clearly supported his entitlement to the first F50 received by the dealership, and also clearly supported the MSRP purchase price. When the dealership received its first F50, the cars were fetching premiums well into the six figure range. Thus, the dealership told the buyer that, notwithstanding their written agreement, he would receive their second car. However, the dealership was not slotted to receive a second F50 for another 18 months. The buyer sued the dealership and sought an injunction to prevent the dealership from selling its first F50 to anyone else. I am prohibited from revealing any further details.

I too have encountered some unfortunate obstacles and inappropriate dealer conduct on my road to owning a NSX. I will post my trials and tribulations in a separate thread.
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I'm under the impression that ALL USA F50s (roughly 55 of them were allocated to U.S), were first "leased" to customers for 2 years. After 2 years, the car can then be purchased. During the 2 years of the lease term, Ferrari North America held the titles to these cars. This was the way from Ferrari to discourage price speculation in the secondary market. That said, I am curious as to how the F50 you've mentioned was involved in a sale transaction??
 
[MENTION=5905]JD Cross[/MENTION]
Agree 100%. I think they are actually trying to work with with the OP....and I am someone who doesn't believe in paying above MSRP generally. The other option is to take the $500 check and find another dealer willing to make a MSRP deal, likely not this year.
 
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lee168 said:
I'm under the impression that ALL USA F50s (roughly 55 of them were allocated to U.S), were first "leased" to customers for 2 years. After 2 years, the car can then be purchased. During the 2 years of the lease term, Ferrari North America held the titles to these cars. This was the way from Ferrari to discourage price speculation in the secondary market. That said, I am curious as to how the F50 you've mentioned was involved in a sale transaction??
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It was so long ago that I do not recall the details. Perhaps it was a lease.
 
M Baker said:
The F50 order mentioned above was a specific order on a specific model car in a completely different strata. Anyway, history now shows the F50 the least desirable of all modern Ferrari supercars - they are bargains and you can find one anytime you need one. Those who paid 6 figures over and still have them will tell you they made a big mistake.

OP: Give it up, get your deposit back and move on. Sorry but based on all you have posted you have no ground to stand on.

MSRP is SUGGESTED Retail Price. No dealership ever has to sell at the suggested price, MANY would love to sell at MSRP as most have to discount readily available cars below MSRP. Do you also complain when you have to pay below MSRP? It goes both ways. So the market determines where the car will sell above or below MSRP. Just like airplane tickets, concert tickets, Superbowl tickets, etc... if you want something people are waiting, bidding, and lining up for you have to pay the asking price or miss the show. Or in this case, wait a couple of years. This NSX will not be selling below invoice - it's not a Kia. If a retailer can sell a product above MSRP good for them in a modern market that has very thin margins. That is capitalism at its best!
Click to expand...

This weekend at Amelia Island Gooding Auction: F50 with estimate of $2.4M to 2.8M (original MSRP of approx. $450K). Hardly a bargain......
 
lee168 said:
Please do tell me where I can pick up an F50, the least desirable Ferrari Supercar, anytime I want one. Last I checked, the 2 USA spec cars sold in 2015and early 2016 for 1,9M and 2.4M, or approx. 60% higher value than that of the F40. There are likely less than 50 copies of the USA F50 in the hands of collectors/enthusiasts. In recent years, Evo and Top Gear both favored the F50 when tested against all other Ferrari Supercars. Unlike the F40 or the Enzo, F50 is less understood due to very few motor journalists had the opportunity to test it when it was launched in 1995 . The F50 is certainly NOT the least desirable Ferrari Supercar as the value, the rarity, and availability would suggest....
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I'm going with a man I know who actually owned an F40, F50, and Enzo all at the same time amongst other rare collector cars. He kept the F40 and Enzo and said he sold the F50 to get the LaFerrari because the F50 was the least desirable of the modern supercars and he could get an F50 anytime he wanted; that F50's were easy to get. I think I can trust someone who has the means to work in that realm, not someone who speculates with online data.
 
M Baker said:
I'm going with a man I know who actually owned an F40, F50, and Enzo all at the same time amongst other rare collector cars. He kept the F40 and Enzo and said he sold the F50 to get the LaFerrari because the F50 was the least desirable of the modern supercars and he could get an F50 anytime he wanted; that F50's were easy to get. I think I can trust someone who has the means to work in that realm, not someone who speculates with online data.
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I can assure you with a 1000 percent confidence that I am NOT merely speculating with mere online data...:-) Perhaps you could verify with the man whom you know about the current F50 availability and its value?? I am sure you will get a vastly different answer than the statements you've posted....
 
16 years .. $500.00... $31.25 per year... .60 cents a week... .08 cents a day...
Really .. Wow..
I lose that much from my pocket when i reach for change...
Do i have to say it ???

Walk away.. Move on ...
How much in laywers fees ...$15,000.00 ???
But ... Thanks for telling everyone how frugal you are & we will never deal with that dealer again
well
 
lee168 said:
Please do tell me where I can pick up an F50, the least desirable Ferrari Supercar, anytime I want one. Last I checked, the 2 USA spec cars sold in 2015and early 2016 for 1,9M and 2.4M, or approx. 60% higher value than that of the F40. There are likely less than 50 copies of the USA F50 in the hands of collectors/enthusiasts. In recent years, Evo and Top Gear both favored the F50 when tested against all other Ferrari Supercars. Unlike the F40 or the Enzo, F50 is less understood due to very few motor journalists had the opportunity to test it when it was launched in 1995 . The F50 is certainly NOT the least desirable Ferrari Supercar as the value, the rarity, and availability would suggest....
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F50GT > F40, Enzo, and La Ferrari IMHO.

Performance:

Power: 750 bhp @ 10500 rpm
Torque: 383 lb·ft @ 8000 rpm
0 to 60 mph: 2.9 s
¼ Mile: 10.2 s @ 129 mph
Top speed: 235 mph
Curb weight: 2005 lbs

Only 3 made.

I met one of the lucky owners years ago: http://www.semi.org/en/oral-history-inteview-arthur-w-zafiropoulo

Nice guy.

Porsche factory driver Johannes Von Overbeck badly crashed the car at Sears Point with cold tires. Ferrari willingly took to car back for repair and, after a year, completed 001 to even more radical specification than standard. Much to Art's surprise, Micheal Schumacher tested the repaired car, and even signed the dashboard!

Then later the owner crashed it.

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Hugh said:
........a car that costs more than most people's homes!.......
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takes more than a NSX to even make a dent in my 'hood for COL....

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/apa/5451783316.html
 
BATMANs said:
F50GT > F40, Enzo, and La Ferrari IMHO.

Performance:

Power: 750 bhp @ 10500 rpm
Torque: 383 lb·ft @ 8000 rpm
0 to 60 mph: 2.9 s
¼ Mile: 10.2 s @ 129 mph
Top speed: 235 mph
Curb weight: 2005 lbs

Only 3 made.

I met one of the lucky owners years ago: http://www.semi.org/en/oral-history-inteview-arthur-w-zafiropoulo

Nice guy.

Porsche factory driver Johannes Von Overbeck badly crashed the car at Sears Point with cold tires. Ferrari willingly took to car back for repair and, after a year, completed 001 to even more radical specification than standard. Much to Art's surprise, Micheal Schumacher tested the repaired car, and even signed the dashboard!

Then later the owner crashed it.

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Agree. F50GT is even faster than the le mans prototype 333sp around Fiorano track. Other than F1 cars, It's perhaps the fastest Ferrari to date. While the regular, production F50s aren't nearly as fast or, as rare, as the F50 GT, they certainly aren't the "least desirable" Ferrari Supercar and they certainly can not be picked up "at a bargain" anytime as one poster is suggesting. I would also say that folks who paid 6 figures over sticker initially for the F50 are NOT saying that they made a mistake today!!
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Obviously this thread has gone off into the weeds...

People will clearly do whatever they choose. But, IMO buying this car over MSRP will only add to the painful reconciliation that comes with trying to sell it in 1-2 years. I think this car takes a huge depreciation hit. The problem is that most NSX1.0 owners aren't apt to play at the price Honda wants for 2.0. On top of that, buyer's of this car may also be cross-shopping much more established brands...with A LOT more panache than what Acura has at the moment. Sadly, Honda simply didn't make this car compelling enough that a lot of people will want it. I hope I'm wrong, and Honda can tweak the recipe a bit to wake this thing up and generate interest. Acura dealers have been drinking too much Kool-Aid if they think people will be lining up to pay for the "market adjustment." They might get an early adopter or two, but the demand simply isn't there.
 
The Nsx is a little priced out of my league. Fortunately though, I can walk on down to the dealership and purchase a used Ferrari F50.
 
Jinks said:
The Nsx is a little priced out of my league. Fortunately though, I can walk on down to the dealership and purchase a used Ferrari F50.
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....and if you decide against buying that undesirable F50, please do let me in on it as I wouldn't mind picking it up at a bargain.
 
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