Complaining about Politics in Off Topic again

Joined
6 November 2006
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Location
Austin, TX
"Tread lightly on religion and politics."

and if you can't - or can't stop yourself from taking the issues / threads down the same ol' rat hole - i suggest using pm's.

thx.
hal

Dude, there must be an open position in China or Russia that you can go to, or maybe the HRC Kangaroo Court in Canada.

Please, stop closing down on my posts. You allow Obama kiss-assing, Bush and Pain-bashing but not critical criticism of the President and the federal government?

If you and Lud really don't like me on Prime, please make an example of me and ban me. That way, you will no longer need to edit and close my posts and everyone will get a clear message.

You should also change your policy that states "tread lightly on anti-obma politics and pro-religion posts. Feel free to write post-Obama posts and anti-religion posts however to your heart's content."

Do you wonder why Vance and a number of other previous prominent contributors to Prime don't post anymore? Seriously, if I'm such a disturbance to your personal views and what "tread lightly means," then make both of our days easier and ban me and everyone else whos views you don't agree with.

Damn, I feel like I'm back in Romania again in Communist times. Despite being on multiple message boards, I've never been slapped like I have on Prime time n' time again.
 
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Re: Do you like President Obama?

Dude, there must be an open position in China or Russia that you can go to, or maybe the HRC Kangaroo Court in Canada.

Please, stop closing down on my posts. You allow Obama kiss-assing, Bush and Pain-bashing but not critical criticism of the President and the federal government?

If you and Lud really don't like me on Prime, please make an example of me and ban me. That way, you will no longer need to edit and close my posts and everyone will get a clear message.

You should also change your policy that states "tread lightly on anti-obma politics and pro-religion posts. Feel free to write post-Obama posts and anti-religion posts however to your heart's content."

Do you wonder why Vance and a number of other previous prominent contributors to Prime don't post anymore? Seriously, if I'm such a disturbance to your personal views and what "tread lightly means," then make both of our days easier and ban me and everyone else whos views you don't agree with.

Damn, I feel like I'm back in Romania again in Communist times. Despite being on multiple message boards, I've never been slapped like I have on Prime time n' time again.
dude,

you may not have noticed, but i removed other's "let's re-visit the presidential election flame war" posts in the thread.

my sense is that most folks received - and understood - the memo on "tread lightly on religion and politics" and those who feel the need use other forums to express themselves w/in the cultural guidelines / guardrails of those forums.

thx,
hal
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

I thought I was treading very nicely and a couple of my posts are gone also. As political threads go, this one seemed as inoffensive as they get.

I do not understand what the criteria are for deletion. Let's just ban political discussion and be done with it.
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

NSXotic911
I hope you aren't banned, and that you will continue to post your thoughts on sensitive matters.

I also hope you will keep a level head, and not let anger/frustration get in the way of having a dialogue. It's exactly that anger (coupled with an even larger helping of mistrust) that plagues society, and does little to move it forward.

Same message goes for others with varying, but equally passionate, opinions on these topics. Even the atheists that just haven't yet seen the Light.

Be Good. :smile:
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

dude,

you may not have noticed, but i removed other's "let's re-visit the presidential election flame war" posts in the thread.

my sense is that most folks received - and understood - the memo on "tread lightly on religion and politics" and those who feel the need use other forums to express themselves w/in the cultural guidelines / guardrails of those forums.

thx,
hal

I thought I was treading very nicely and a couple of my posts are gone also. As political threads go, this one seemed as inoffensive as they get.

I do not understand what the criteria are for deletion. Let's just ban political discussion and be done with it.


That doesn't appear so. How 'bout you expand on who or what policies can be praised or criticized so it's crystal clear to every one. It seems all of the posts that are edited or deleted have fallen either in praise or criticism category of particular people or policis which is why there has been so much confusion.
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

If you and Lud really don't like me on Prime, please make an example of me and ban me. That way, you will no longer need to edit and close my posts and everyone will get a clear message.

I do not understand what the criteria are for deletion.

My understanding it's up to the subjective judgement of Lud/Queenlives. There is no such thing as "perfectly fair" as that is subjective to each individual. In lieu of thousands of differing subjective opinions of what is fair, Lud felt that Queenlives had a fairly neutral and balanced one and should be allowed to use his basis of fairness as the standard. Based on his posts, I would have to agree. But realize by that nature, there's no way that everybody will perfectly agree with his definition of fair. So you and others will always disagree with his position on fairness and deletion; it's bound to happen. But it's a small price to pay for such an awesome group. Don't forget that while today some people may not agree with his deletion policies, others may appreciate them. Also understand that this will blow over in a matter of days, yet Queenlives does a very good job of moderating every day, all the time. It's a thankless position, like a moving company. Nobody says anything when you do your job, but if you drop or break something, they are all over your case. You should cut him a little slack, knowing that no matter what decision he makes, SOMEBODY won't be happy with it. Today it happens to be you, but if the decision went the other way, it would be someone else.

Think of NSX Prime as a really awesome club, where the women are hot, the alcohol is free and there are lots of cool people around all the time. However, the club owner has some weird rules, like say, no cussing. You go in and say, "damn that rule sucks" and the club owner says "hey, no cussing or you are out!" Now you can argue with the symantics on if "damn" is a cuss word or not, but the point is, it's his club not yours and if you want to stay, you need to play by his rules (even if he decides to change it at any time). Remember his club is his own private club and not a service he owes to anyone. If you don't agree with the rules, you are more than welcome to leave, but would you really want to give up this awesome club, with hot women, free booze and cool people, just because you don't like his policy on cussing? If so, I'd say it's more of your loss then theirs. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad, and I would think this "club" has a lot more good than bad.

Look, I've been warned in content before and had my posts deleted. But ultimately I have to remind myself, is it such a big deal? So what if nobody heard my side of the thread? After this thread fizzles out, who really goes back and re-reads these threads any way? It's just a flash in the pan and for the most part (like yesterday's lunch) after a few hours, it's forgotten. Besides, do you think anyone will remember what you said? Nobody is going to change their opinion on something based on a post in some thread. I could be pro-Obama, anti-Obama, Pro-Bush, Anti-Bush, Pro-Kittens, Anti-Kittens, but ultimately who cares? It's not like someone is going to say, wow, based on Vega$ NSX's post, I'm now going go from Pro-Kittens to now hating kittens. Just let it go, thank Queenlives for doing an impossible job, and move on.

Might I suggest this thread? :tongue:
 
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Re: Do you like President Obama?

My understanding it's up to the subjective judgement of Lud/Queenlives. There is no such thing as "perfectly fair" as that is subjective to each individual. In lieu of thousands of differing subjective opinions of what is fair, Lud felt that Queenlives had a fairly neutral and balanced one and should be allowed to use his basis of fairness as the standard. Based on his posts, I would have to agree. But realize by that nature, there no way that everybody will perfectly agree with his definition of fair. So you and others will always disagree with his position on fairness and deletion; it's bound to happen. But it's a small price to pay for such an awesome group. Don't forget that while today some people may not agree with his deletion policies, others may appreciate them. Also understand that this will blow over in a matter of days, yet Queenlives does a very good job of moderating every day, all the time. It's a thankless position, like a moving company. Nobody says anything when you do your job, but if you drop or break something, they are all over your case.

Think of NSX Prime as a really awesome club, where the women are hot, the alcohol is free and there are lots of cool people around all the time. However, the club owner has some weird rules, like say, no cussing. You go in and say, "damn that rule sucks" and the club owner says "hey, no cussing or you are out!" Now you can argue with the symantics on if "damn" is a cuss word or not, but the point is, it's his club not yours and if you want to stay, you need to play by his rules (even if he decides to change it at any time). Remember his club is his own private club and not a service he owes to anyone. If you don't agree with the rules, you are more than welcome to leave, but would you really want to give up this awesome club, with hot women, free booze and cool people, just because you don't like his policy on cussing? If so, I'd say it's more of your loss then theirs. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad, and I would think this "club" has a lot more good than bad.

Look, I've been warned in content before and had my posts deleted. But ultimately I have to remind myself, is it such a big deal? So what if nobody heard my side of the thread? After this thread fizzles out, who really goes back and re-reads these threads any way? It's just a flash in the pan and for the most part (like yesterday's lunch) after a few hours, it's forgotten. Besides, do you think anyone will remember what you said? Nobody is going to change their opinion on something based on a post in some thread. I could be pro-Obama, anti-Obama, Pro-Bush, Anti-Bush, Pro-Kittens, Anti-Kittens, but ultimately who cares? It's not like someone is going to say, wow, based on Vega$ NSX's post, I'm now going go from Pro-Kittens to now hating kittens. Just let it go, thank Queenlives for do an impossible job, and move on.

Might I suggest this thread? :tongue:

Nice post. Thank you.
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

If the respect level for our fellow man was higher we wouldn't have all these outburts and the need for moderations in the world. I respect everybody and their idea's on nsxprime, there is a way to post what you feel and be civil towards other members/users.

Joe Wilson and Kanye West musta been out to recess when the teacher was teaching that.:rolleyes:
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

My understanding it's up to the subjective judgement of Lud/Queenlives. There is no such thing as "perfectly fair" as that is subjective to each individual. In lieu of thousands of differing subjective opinions of what is fair, Lud felt that Queenlives had a fairly neutral and balanced one and should be allowed to use his basis of fairness as the standard. Based on his posts, I would have to agree. But realize by that nature, there's no way that everybody will perfectly agree with his definition of fair. So you and others will always disagree with his position on fairness and deletion; it's bound to happen. But it's a small price to pay for such an awesome group. Don't forget that while today some people may not agree with his deletion policies, others may appreciate them. Also understand that this will blow over in a matter of days, yet Queenlives does a very good job of moderating every day, all the time. It's a thankless position, like a moving company. Nobody says anything when you do your job, but if you drop or break something, they are all over your case. You should cut him a little slack, knowing that no matter what decision he makes, SOMEBODY won't be happy with it. Today it happens to be you, but if the decision went the other way, it would be someone else.

Think of NSX Prime as a really awesome club, where the women are hot, the alcohol is free and there are lots of cool people around all the time. However, the club owner has some weird rules, like say, no cussing. You go in and say, "damn that rule sucks" and the club owner says "hey, no cussing or you are out!" Now you can argue with the symantics on if "damn" is a cuss word or not, but the point is, it's his club not yours and if you want to stay, you need to play by his rules (even if he decides to change it at any time). Remember his club is his own private club and not a service he owes to anyone. If you don't agree with the rules, you are more than welcome to leave, but would you really want to give up this awesome club, with hot women, free booze and cool people, just because you don't like his policy on cussing? If so, I'd say it's more of your loss then theirs. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad, and I would think this "club" has a lot more good than bad.

Look, I've been warned in content before and had my posts deleted. But ultimately I have to remind myself, is it such a big deal? So what if nobody heard my side of the thread? After this thread fizzles out, who really goes back and re-reads these threads any way? It's just a flash in the pan and for the most part (like yesterday's lunch) after a few hours, it's forgotten. Besides, do you think anyone will remember what you said? Nobody is going to change their opinion on something based on a post in some thread. I could be pro-Obama, anti-Obama, Pro-Bush, Anti-Bush, Pro-Kittens, Anti-Kittens, but ultimately who cares? It's not like someone is going to say, wow, based on Vega$ NSX's post, I'm now going go from Pro-Kittens to now hating kittens. Just let it go, thank Queenlives for doing an impossible job, and move on.

Might I suggest this thread? :tongue:

The difference with the club is that the club is *truly* private and exclusive - it can't be accessed by 6,000,000,000 people as Prime can. If Prime were private, it should only be visible by those registered members.
 
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Re: Do you like President Obama?

The difference with the club is that the club is *truly* private and exclusive - it can't be accessed by 6,000,000,000 people as Prime can.

If Prime were private, it should only be visible by those registered members.

What?:confused: Who is not able to access this forum?:confused: I don't think you have to own an NSX to be a member. I really think you should demand your membership fees back from this exclusive group.:rolleyes:
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

Someone once said the government is like the NBA.
If you and your friend are at a game and you're yelling at your friend that the Bulls suck and your friend is screaming at you that the Lakers suck, then the NBA couldn't be happier.
When you and your friend stop and start yelling that the NBA sucks, then the NBA worries.


Also, a big thank you to the mods here. If youguys are ever in Richmond, I'll seriously buy you a beer.


-Jon
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

Someone once said the government is like the NBA.
If you and your friend are at a game and you're yelling at your friend that the Bulls suck and your friend is screaming at you that the Lakers suck, then the NBA couldn't be happier.
When you and your friend stop and start yelling that the NBA sucks, then the NBA worries.


Also, a big thank you to the mods here. If youguys are ever in Richmond, I'll seriously buy you a beer.


-Jon
I used to live in Glen Allen up until about a year ago. I go there quite often to Midlothian. I'll hold you to that beer.
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

Someone once said the government is like the NBA.
If you and your friend are at a game and you're yelling at your friend that the Bulls suck and your friend is screaming at you that the Lakers suck, then the NBA couldn't be happier.
When you and your friend stop and start yelling that the NBA sucks, then the NBA worries.


Also, a big thank you to the mods here. If youguys are ever in Richmond, I'll seriously buy you a beer.


-Jon

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: Thank you. Well said.
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

I used to live in Glen Allen up until about a year ago. I go there quite often to Midlothian. I'll hold you to that beer.

I work in Glen Allen and live in Midlothian. I'm always up for meeting other NSX owners. Shoot me a PM next time you're here and beer is on me :)
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

The difference with the club is that the club is *truly* private and exclusive - it can't be accessed by 6,000,000,000 people as Prime can. If Prime were private, it should only be visible by those registered members.



I see what you are trying to say, but that is an incorrect way to look at this. You privately own your car and house right? Is your house and car only visible to you? No. It is visible to the general public. So if the general public didn't like the color of your house or car, do you have an obligation to change it because they don't like it? No. Just because this page is accessible, it does NOT mean it is not private or bound to rules. You are mistaking NSX Prime as some public owned forum. You seem to think it is some democratic, government or member owned page, which it is not. This site is owned, maintained and paid for by one single person. That person owns this site and all of its content, no different than an owner of a club, house or car. Remember, there are no rules, laws or obligations, that govern or direct how this site should be built, run or censored, other than the discretion of the owner. Now, it may be the case that there is an open door, open windows and people can walk by, in and look inside this "club" at any time, but it does not change the status that this is still his club and you abide by his rules. If Lud so decided to shut this site down, what difference does it make if 6,000,000,000 people can access this site; he can still shut it down if so pleases. Nobody can force him to keep this site up, and don't forget that. This site is privilege and benefit for us all, but it is not a right or obligation. In fact, if he wanted to turn this site into a Corvette only forum, that's his prerogative too. He has no obligation to you, me or any of the 6,000,000,000 people in the world. Who are you to say what is allowed or not allowed on his site? If you don't like it, your freedom is to create an NSX site on your own and create the rules you want to have. But here's a hint: I doubt it will get the same traffic and membership NSX Prime will. Do you know why? Because it is a good site. If it was so bad and had too much censorship then people would leave and join your site. But that won't happen because people realize that despite certain things they don't like about it, the positive things far outweigh them. That's anything but communism, as you suggest. It's capitalism in its highest form. People create their own things, from their own imagination, time, effort, hard work and money and the best sites raise to the top. It should be proof enough that Lud and the other moderators must be doing something right, because if they didn't, this site would lose all its members and disappear. Yet, it has stood the test of time so their system must be working, so there is no reason to question it.

Just like an NSX. Some people feel it has too little power, or they don't like the interior. However, Honda has no obligation to build the car exactly the way you want them to. They build it the way they want to. And if you like it enough, you buy it. If not, you buy something else. Simple as that.

Look at it this way. Say you put together a lot of time, money and hard work and made a movie. It is a movie the way you envision it. It is your project, your dream and your expression. It get's shown in several theaters and some people to tell you to add more action, or change that. Or they tell you to change the story, or the plot, or to use different music. Just because that movie will be seen by many eyes and many of those people will have actually PAID to see the movie, does it mean you should change every aspect of your movie to meet their demands? Heck no! It's YOUR movie. You can take their suggestions if YOU want to or YOU like them, but if you want to make the movie the way you want to, then that YOUR choice. Who cares if people paid money to see your movie or that a lot of people are watching it. If you made it and paid for it, then it yours and if people don't like it, then they don't have to watch it. This website is no different. It's LUD's "movie". He made it the way HE wanted to make it. If you don't like the movie you don't have to watch it. But I'm telling you, you'd be missing out on one hell of a movie. It's got a great plot, and zany cast of characters and it seems to never end!

Oh and I do not in any way, speak for Lud, the Moderators or any other Prime memeber. These comments and opinions are strictly my own, and mine alone.
 
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Re: Do you like President Obama?

No site like this is a democracy with some sort of promise of "Fairness". At best these sites are benevolent dictatorships where the management tries to maintain enough order to prevent the fora devolving into flame wars.
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

No site like this is a democracy with some sort of promise of "Fairness". At best these sites are benevolent dictatorships where the management tries to maintain enough order to prevent the fora devolving into flame wars.

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say much better in two sentences. Way to show me up! :wink: :biggrin:
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

No site like this is a democracy with some sort of promise of "Fairness". At best these sites are benevolent dictatorships where the management tries to maintain enough order to prevent the fora devolving into flame wars.

I don't have a problem with the site moderators not being "fair." I have a problem with them not stating so. What has been shown time and time again is that:

Criticizing Obama, his policies or general liberal policies will get you a slap on the wrist. This is what 'tread lightly on politics' actually represents.

Hal should just go out and state it and make that official policy, sound good Hal?
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

I don't have a problem with the site moderators not being "fair." I have a problem with them not stating so. What has been shown time and time again is that:

Criticizing Obama, his policies or general liberal policies will get you a slap on the wrist. This is what 'tread lightly on politics' actually represents.

Hal should just go out and state it and make that official policy, sound good Hal?

Yeah, everyone thinks that it's about their sacred cow getting picked on rather than their own actions. If I had a dime for the number of times I've read the "Well Johnny did it too and you didn't pick on him because Johnny supports Obama/Bush/Liberalism/Conservativism..." response to having a post of theirs' being addressed by the moderators, I'd be a wealthy man.

Everyone thinks the moderator is biased against their political point of view.
 
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My complaint is that posts are deleted. If the thread becomes offensive, lock it. If the poster continues to be offensive, sanction him.

But don't delete posts. That's just wrong.
 
My complaint is that posts are deleted. If the thread becomes offensive, lock it. If the poster continues to be offensive, sanction him.

But don't delete posts. That's just wrong.

Wrong by your standard, but not other people's standards. So who's standard should we use? I say we use the standard of the owner and developer of this site. Let him decide what is right and what is wrong on this site.
 
My complaint is that posts are deleted. If the thread becomes offensive, lock it. If the poster continues to be offensive, sanction him.

But don't delete posts. That's just wrong.
skippy,

thx for your feedback on this.

i'm writing up an overview of the variables / process i approach moderating ot and welcome any / all constructive criticism and feedback. as i said to someone else (whose feedback i was soliciting on a thread), feedback doesn't guarantee my compliance but i am interested in constructive criticism / feedback. i hope to have it posted tomorrow morning.

moderating ot is an interesting gig :eek:
 
skippy,

thx for your feedback on this.

i'm writing up an overview of the variables / process i approach moderating ot and welcome any / all constructive criticism and feedback. as i said to someone else (whose feedback i was soliciting on a thread), feedback doesn't guarantee my compliance but i am interested in constructive criticism / feedback. i hope to have it posted tomorrow morning.

moderating ot is an interesting gig :eek:

Queenlives, hey I'll simplify it for you.

Create a scale from 1 to 2. If a post gets a value of 1, then it is unacceptable and is therefore deleted. If it gets a value of 2, then it stays. As you read posts, assign it a value of 1 or 2 to each post you read based how you feel it deserves. I'll call it the Queenlives scale. I'm sure it differs from the Vega$ NSX scale and the Hey Skippy scale, but in this forum, it's the Queenlives scale we use. Just like in America, it's the Farhenheight scale we use. I'd rather use the Celcius scale myself, but tough cookie for me, this is America dammit and here we use Farhenheight. If people don't like it, they can leave. If they don't mind, they can stay. I guarantee you if we use the Queenlives scale, people will stay. :smile:
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

Let's just ban political discussion and be done with it.

A good start but why not just end "Off topic" entirely.

It's a site about the NSX. The topics in "off Topic" are well covered elsewhere on the net and in no short quantity.

"Off Topic" dilutes and distracts from the real subjest -the NSX.

It's about the car. Kill the "Off Topic" section I say
 
Re: Do you like President Obama?

A good start but why not just end "Off topic" entirely.

It's a site about the NSX. The topics in "off Topic" are well covered elsewhere on the net and in no short quantity.

"Off Topic" dilutes and distracts from the real subjest -the NSX.

It's about the car. Kill the "Off Topic" section I say


No one is forced to post in Off Topic. Those that do not like it are free to engage only in "on Topic" fora. It is solely the judgment of the site owner as to whether or not an Off Topic forum is of benefit to the site, or if it is in fact a dilution and distraction from the purported "real subject".

These kinds of issues are only due to posters forgetting that we are only guests here, and as guests we really only have the choice to follow the rules as the administration and moderators ask us to, or leave. To expect the site management to change things to how we each want them to be seem not only unrealistic, but egotistical.

I've been involved with moderating a couple of special interest sites like this for about eight years, and it has been my experience that unless a site has a basement like "off Topic", the other fora will suffer from the inevitable injection of off topic tangents, and that the number of moderators will need to be increased to police the forums.

Everyone thinks that moderators are biased and an unbelievable number of posters complain about it every time they are told to cool out. Changing moderation to service such complainers is a waste of time.
 
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