Political threads in Off Topic

[ANYTIME]

Sounds like more time/effort spent moderating to me. NSX Prime has been very clear that the focus of this site is the NSX and this takes away from that.

In over a week nobody has made a compelling argument for keeping political discussion, or even really expressed a strong desire to keep it.

At the same time, a couple current threads have further convinced me that too many people don't care to respect the "tread lightly" rule.

I am not going to create a separate "gloves off" forum for it, and I'm not going to spend the time and effort to closely police such debates.

Therefore, unless someone convinces me otherwise by this weekend, I am simply going to ban political discussion.

seems to me that civil discussions about a broad variety of topics are one of the high-water qualities of prime over the years... and it seems a shame to kill an entire topic as important to everyone - u.s. citizen or r.o.w. - as politics and the global economy is @ this particular point in time.

rather than penalize the entire community for bad behavior, i suggest issuing a warning to the individual (you may also want to post a note in the thread indicating you'd like a bit more civility) and suspend / terminate if it continues. (for others reading my input, it should be noted that a couple of years ago i was asked by lud to stop my posting / bad behavior on a thread and i responded appropriately - i had gotten too wrapped around the axle for my own good.

a final point: there are a number of members who strongly - but civilly - express their opinions on the economy, politics, etc, that are very different than mine. i must say that i value the discussions that we have in public as well as those via pm/ email / phone and in person; my belief is they feel the same way.

i vote for censuring the poorly behaving member rather than restricting such an important discussion topic.

(as always) good luck with whatever you decide and thanks for continuing to maintain prime.
hal
btw, i also like myguitar's suggestion of sticky/links to political-vomit sites.

 

[queenlives]

Sounds like more time/effort spent moderating to me. NSX Prime has been very clear that the focus of this site is the NSX and this takes away from that.

anything not related to the nsx takes away from the focus of the site, but it's more than the nsx that brings people to the site.

i say punish the abuser. seems likely there's some form of "flagging" bad posts / member that could be of help in this type of situation.

 

[ANYTIME]

3 Forums out of 31 are not NSX related:
General Motorsports Discussion
Off Topic
General Classified Ads

Of those 3, the General Classifed Ads have come and gone and come already (now moderated because of yahoos).

Now Off Topic is going down the same road. The benefit of political threads?

BTW, flagging has always been an option. It can be seen in every post, and should be used more often I guess.
It looks like this>

 

[myguitar]

i vote for censuring the poorly behaving member rather than restricting such an important discussion topic.

There is always a possibility that a certain member with an offensive, or out of line post may turn around and accuse the moderator of taking sides based on his own personal opinion. Then if that member got banned the others from that same side of the political spectrum may assert that it happened for the same reason.

 

[queenlives]

3 Forums out of 31 are not NSX related:
General Motorsports Discussion
Off Topic
General Classified Ads

Of those 3, the General Classifed Ads have come and gone and come already (now moderated because of yahoos).

Now Off Topic is going down the same road. The benefit of political threads?

BTW, flagging has always been an option. It can be seen in every post, and should be used more often I guess.
It looks like this>

*i* think the benefits of non-nsx threads are discourse among the community that provide, for some, a broader perspective on a given issue. it's clear to me there are many members who disagree with one another, yet are willing and able to participate in quality / civil discussions on a variety of topics... and thoughtful dialogue on important issues should always be welcome. (imho)

btw, boorish behavior hasn't been limited to off topic: do i correctly remember last year's flaming of (sorry can't remember his name / handle) the extremely valuable nsxca officer (treasurer) over nsxpo in the nsxpo forum that eventually caused him to no longer participate / resign? should that forum be closed, too?

and who defines "political discussions": what about 2nd amendment discussions? (i'm not a gun fan, btw; nor am i opposed to possessing them... and i rarely participate in those discussions.) is discussing our basic rights of citizenship considered "politics"? military deployment? unemployment related to the economy? greatly increased vehicle registration tied to deficits that are the result of various boom / bust cycles resulting in higher taxes to offset losses? what about the law regarding using mobile devices while driving? that's based on a law that (at least one member, a libertarian) feels is a stupid law and should be ignored - since laws are made by politicians, is *that* a political discussion at heart?

within reason, i say keep topics open and ban poor behavior.

having said what i've said in this thread, i'm also of the opinion that the quality of the community that i've valued so highly @ prime for years has declined and, in the process, caused a number of well-respected members to no longer participate except in extremely rare situations... and that's to everyone's loss.

thx for the tip on flagging, i wasn't aware of that and frankly, until recently, hadn't much felt the need for one. given a few recent exchange posts, i'd press that button in certain circumstances.

finally, i understand that more administration / moderation is heading in the wrong direction... so in the end, perhaps deleting all non-nsx posts are the way to go so the site simply focuses on nsx-specific issues.

 

[queenlives]

There is always a possibility that a certain member with an offensive, or out of line post may turn around and accuse the moderator of taking sides based on his own personal opinion. Then if that member got banned the others from that same side of the political spectrum may assert that it happened for the same reason.

yup, hard to plan and execute for all contingencies.

as i said in my just-posted note, perhaps the thing to do is simply delete all non-nsx forum / threads, period, over'n'out.

 

[queenlives]

On the matter of NSFW girl threads....

I think it's a great idea to have a thread where we can post pics of ourselves or our wifes/girlfriends/families. There are members who are on here all the time and for the most part, the regulars know each other pretty well so it's nice to put a face to the (screen)name. But I don't think it's appropriate that a thread like that should be turned into a NSFW thread. I don't care to see any wife's/girlfriend's tits and I believe posting those photos is a pretty crappy thing to do. Post a nice pic of your girl, not a pic of her in a skank costume next to your car. We just wanna "meet" her... That's just me though, I would never objectify someone I love. If someone wants tits and ass, it's only a click away.

My .02. Please don't ban me :biggrin: j/k

i'm with you on this issue... but i'm still looking for the flag icon:wink:

 

[NSX Prime]

within reason, i say keep topics open and ban poor behavior.

Are you willing to be a moderator for Off Topic?

 

[queenlives]

Are you willing to be a moderator for Off Topic?

yes, if you're willing to have me.

 

[Ski_Banker]

yes, if you're willing to have me.

Hal...check is in the mail. Thx buddy. :tongue:

 

[queenlives]

Hal...check is in the mail. Thx buddy. :tongue:

so you're not giving your bailout money back?

:biggrin:

 

[Khiladi1020]

Just my opinion...

There are so many political blogs and related forums out there on the internet that are available for people to read, vent, etc., that it really doesn't benefit Prime for having those threads here. You could say the same about the NSFW threads, but really, those threads and others don't dominate the off-topic section in the same manner that the political ones tend to do. If off-topic became festered with too much NSFW or another topic, I'm sure there might be a good reason to shut those subjects down too. But right now, its the political ones that show the worst side of people sometimes... It sucks when you get such a great opinion of your fellow members with some of the NSX related insight and advice given throughout the forum, and then come across posts by which are insulting, hateful, bigoted, etc.
I remember when growing up there was a saying, "Never talk about politics or religion amongst your friends." NSXPrime is such a community where its members normally respect each other so much they could easily be called friends. But once a political post in off-topic comes up, too often the gloves are thrown off.

Lud, you have a great site, and I'd hate to see it get shut down by an external watchdog who sees a bit too much anger, hate, or incitement in the political threads of the off-topic section. People have lost their way in having respect for each other with differing opinions. At NSX Prime, usually anger is directed towards vendors who have swindled fellow members. It is a shame that because people have lost their way in communicating with respect, anger is now being directed towards each other, via a tool that doesn't have to be there.

Respectfully,

 

[ChopsJazz]

I will add my .02 also.

I occasionally get lured into a politically charged thread and am shocked at the vitriol with which a contrary position can be attacked. It's kind of like driving down the freeway and misbehaving because of the shield of anonymity we have in our cars. Even though many of us have our real names and locations in our signatures the "discourse" that is carried out seems barely civil when it come to politics, and "boorish" seems too well-mannered of a description. Is this because of the same type of anonymity? On a side note I had one member "call me out" and mentioned that I would be easy to find with my license plate and car in Half Moon Bay. Civil?

I value knowing what my fellow members think about different topics other than the NSX. Yes, political sites are only a click away, but on another site I may not recognize a post as one of my brothers on Prime. I used to love NSX social gatherings where we would sit around a table over lunch or a beer and talk and agree and disagree. We don't do that on the internet. Instead we berate and degrade and spew rancor at other members.

I like Hal's ideas. I like Nick's ideas. I like Lud's ideas. This thread has been the most civil of any that I've read in a long time.

The value of political threads? I'm just not sure... I agree that the "quality" of member has slipped in the past nine years since I became a member. I don't think members are capable of having a respectful discussion about politics. I haven't seen it yet anyhow.


Sorry to ramble.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

I would have to say is BAN all political talk from the off topic forums. I'm sorry but I get extremely annoyed reading such stupid remarks from policital hating threads. I don't consider them discussions any more just hate threads.

I've been part of this car community since 2002 and in the 3 months there has been more hating/ranting about politics compared to when the previous president was elected. Also I don't think in the past 3 months I've actually read anything informative, just "how Obama is killing my wallet", or "I don't want to pay for that _____, who can't even support themselves", or "President didn't go to a ball", etc. etc... basically they are just hating/ranting on anything our current president does.

I'm assuming this Obama/democrat hate/rant is large especially on prime because republicans tend to support the wealthier working class and most people with wealth can afford a NSX. Since the majority of prime members are NSX owners I can believe more of them would be inclined to be republican. I don't see why there is even a need to discuss politics because as you can see the majority have the same view, so instead of discussion it turns to a hate/rant thread.

Personally I don't care about politics but would like to get into it now that I'll be working as a professional, will be owning property soon, and maybe having a family within the next couple of years and I think I should know what is going to affect me in those regards aka healthcare, taxes, social security, etc. Unfortunately since most threads are one sided and don't' actually bring anything without a super biased view I don't learn anything here on prime... so I say ban it all. Let them go to other sites to rant about it there, I'll go elsewhere to learn about politics, and lets leave it at that.

 

[ANYTIME]

I was brought up to support the president. I see little to no support and or respect for our current elected president, which is a shame.

 

[Mr Payne]

Virtually every complaint in this thread can be negated by simply having another sub-forum within off-topic.

 

[NSX Prime]

I have decided to take queenlives up on his offer. His charge is to lead Off Topic as a shining example of intelligent, thoughtful discussion and respectful debate on the Internet. I am confident our membership will make that goal appear modest.

Comments on how things have been going under his leadership are welcome. I will also post a more formal request for comments after about a month.

Thanks to everyone for their input on the matter!

 

[ChopsJazz]

That seems like a reasonable way to progress.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

I don't think there is a need to ban anything. Just let people talk and hash out their ideas and opinions. That's why it's "off topic". If it's about what the "intent" of the site is, there shouldn't be an "off topic" section at all.

When you start banning stuff it's a slippery slope. If you want to remove things that aren't pertinent to NSX's, then what do we do with the "hottest girl you've ever seen" thread that has like a thousand pages by now?

 

[Ski_Banker]

Good choice. I think Queen will do a great job.