clutch question

[COUPE DE GRACE]

I;m looking at a car for sale (2002) with 40 000 miles in the add he mentions that T/B & W/P..... plus CLUTCH has been changed ....It gives me the impression the car was driven ... oh let's say agressively..or would a clutch change be a justified expense at those miles under normal driving.

 

[docjohn]

imo 40 k is in a grey zone ,20k would be too soon,and we have heard of folks proudly boasting of thier 100k clutch,but if the work has been done then better it failed before you bought it:wink: The question for you to ask is what clutch was used for replacement.

 

[Olyar15]

Depends on whether mileage is city or highway based. Of course people who drive mostly highway can get 100k or more from their clutch, since when you are cruising at a constant speed & you are not shifting, there is 0 wear on the clutch. City driving, with constant starts and shifting, can wear the clutch much faster, especially if the terrain is hilly.

So a clutch replaced after 40k miles may be appropriate for the type of driving that the owner was doing, and doesn't necessarily indicate abuse.

 

[Dtrigg]

It also depends if the person knows how to drive the car. My NSX Tec at Gold Coast Acura in Ventura told me about a lady that went through a few cluches in one year.

 

[nsxtasy]

Many NSX clutches fail after anywhere from 35K to 50K miles, and it is not necessarily a sign of overly aggressive driving.

 

[angus]

Exactly, I'd say inexperience is more likely to cause failure than abuse (I said more likely, not more possible)

Riding a clutch will wear it out, driving hard will take longer.

 

[tbromley]

Exactly, I'd say inexperience is more likely to cause failure than abuse (I said more likely, not more possible)

Riding a clutch will wear it out, driving hard will take longer.

This is what I'd suspect as well but 40k isn't awful - it just most likely means that the guy did a lot of city driving and rode his clutch a bit in first and may have been in a hilly area but I'd say more inexperience than anything.

With that said - Doc has the real point - point is what clutch did he put in? Who did the work - how does it feel now? All things you want to know! These are the important things.

 

[COUPE DE GRACE]

GOT YA.....how complicated is it to do......?a decent honda dealer mechanic can do it..?? and how much does it cost

 

[nsxtasy]

For an experienced mechanic, replacing the clutch is an all-day job. And including stock parts and labor, a clutch job typically runs somewhere around $2500 for a five-speed, $3500 for a six-speed.

 

[Huck]

Curious----why is the dual disc stock clutch a weak link in the NSX? A single disc stock clutch in a Corvette, if driven with reasonable care can last 150,000 miles---yet is handling more hores power, more torque and more weight to move. Honda Civic's, Honda Accords, Honda Preludes----all have clutches to match the car and typically last well over 100K miles--easy, and more like 175K miles. Obviously, if your are a crappy driver with riding the clutch or drive a car very hard---you will wear out clutches and tires ----but in normal use----one would expect a much longer life then 50-60K miles.

 

[tbromley]

Curious----why is the dual disc stock clutch a weak link in the NSX? A single disc stock clutch in a Corvette, if driven with reasonable care can last 150,000 miles---yet is handling more hores power, more torque and more weight to move. Honda Civic's, Honda Accords, Honda Preludes----all have clutches to match the car and typically last well over 100K miles--easy, and more like 175K miles. Obviously, if your are a crappy driver with riding the clutch or drive a car very hard---you will wear out clutches and tires ----but in normal use----one would expect a much longer life then 50-60K miles.

You know Huck, I've asked myself that same question and I have yet to get a really good answer. The lack of typical longevity in clutch wear experienced in other autos and Hondas is a mystery. I too know guys that had civics with 200k miles on them and no clutch replacement. That is amazing clutch life and it may be even more amazing that you get 150k out of a Vette clutch! That's pretty cool. It may have something to do with the drive train all being in the rear but I don't know - maybe the clutch disck is undersized for the load? I'm not sure - what we need is someone like Larry B, Barney or Eiffel Chin to chime in cause they all run shops and are very familiar with these clutches.

One reason to get that new SOS clutch. I would surely opt for that in an NA2. You can go back to the single disk in the NA2 by just buying the flywheel which comes with the SOS unit. But I will say that some here with their OEM single disk clutches have gotten 100k but still as you say that indicates some weakness.

Now if any like Larry B or Barney or Eiffel read this - could it be that there is a leaking problem thru the rms? Just curious - that would surely comprimise the clutch wouldn't it. But I've never heard of that.

GOOD QUESTION!

 

[FelonyRuckus]

Science of Speed single disk clutch is what most people install $1645, its actually made by RPS. It's a great option, I have one installed...lighter flywheel is nice. With install the total put it slightly less than $2200.

Science of Speed has great customer service. I recommend them for most anything.

 

[haveblue]

Would a higher-end clutch designed for more power, such as a Comptech PG2, deliver a longer lifespan at stock power than a stock clutch?

 

[docjohn]

Would a higher-end clutch designed for more power, such as a Comptech PG2, deliver a longer lifespan at stock power than a stock clutch?

the short answer, no. A clutch's wear is dependant on the driver.

 

[Sumeronthechain]

the short answer, no. A clutch's wear is dependant on the driver.

I'm going to partly disagree with this. All things equal, a heavier duty clutch will last longer.

The reason cars like a Corvette can get a lot of miles out of their clutch with more power is partly because it is a much heavier duty clutch. The whole system is a lot bigger. Plus the clutch is far away from the hot engine which keeps temps down. The tradeoff of this is that the pedal is very firm and is not as user friendly as the NSX is. That being said I'm sure there are plenty examples of Corvette's and similar cars burning up the clutch with low miles.

Stock Viper GTS clutch's can hold 600 RWHP for a long time, but 10 minutes in stop and go and you will realize that working the pedal is a lot of work.

 

[docjohn]

all things are never equal...I know of two members that have gotten 80k and 100k miles out of the stock clutch I have no data for owners with stock power and the "stronger" clutch. Could be a useful new thread topic to prove your or my asertions.

 

[oscar_driver]

All about the owner

Mine just went off @ 84K miles, I am the second owner, and the car was traded @ 55K, so I assume the first owner was great with the clutch, because i drive hard, and still lasted another 30K .....

For me it's all about the person who operates the car.

I can't wait to get my SOS Sports clutch (arrives next Tuesday-Wed) ... @ 2.7K OEM -+labor- the SOS sounds like a bargain!!

Oscar

 

[nsxtasy]

Mine just went off @ 84K miles, I am the second owner, and the car was traded @ 55K, so I assume the first owner was great with the clutch, because i drive hard, and still lasted another 30K .....

It's possible the prior owner had replaced the clutch before you bought the car, no?

 

[oscar_driver]

It's possible the prior owner had replaced the clutch before you bought the car, no?

I have all history since day ONE from the prior owner, and there's not clutch replacement.
. unless I don't know lol - but highly unlikely

Oscar

 

[tbromley]

I have all history since day ONE from the prior owner, and there's not clutch replacement.
. unless I don't know lol - but highly unlikely

Oscar

Our other primer, Ken, I believe said he expects to get 100k out of his. I do too. Actually I am thinking I will never have to replace another clutch during my ownership cause I don't drive mine that much in a year. 2500 to 3000 miles - not likely. I have an OEM clutch too.

 

[Huck]

Just had my clutch replaced that both the mechanic and I agree that there is a high probability that it is the original. It had maybe 5-10K miles left on it as the discs were warn down to within a couple of thousands of the rivets. My take is that a dual disc clutch has lots of holding strength for applications like trucks and tractors---but the weak link is the noise possibility and the 4 surfaces that have the potential for wear. Any one of these could become problematic. None of these 4 surfaces are as large as a typical HD single disc clutch but in total have a lot more surface area. So, my original clutch had the potential to go 125K+ miles>. The previous owner knew how to drive a stick car without premature wearing issues. So under factory recommended driving ---one could expect over 100K miles out of the stock clutch setup. This kind of makes sense for a Honda product---solid design, quality material, and long life. That said, the new SoS clutch is a pleasure to drive--no noise, no grab, mid pedal grab,--actual pedal effort feel less then the stock!! Pricy for sure but--it will probably outlive me. Now if I can just teach the love muffin how to engage without slippage (the clutch that is)!! hehehehehe:biggrin:

 

[EdinKali]

I have all history since day ONE from the prior owner, and there's not clutch replacement.
. unless I don't know lol - but highly unlikely

Oscar

There is a member on here who is the original owner that states he got over 100K miles on the stock clutch.

My car went 125K(just starting to slip on hard shifts) on what appears to be the original clutch. I have all service records on the car down to oil changes(even the original window sticker). I even have a service history print out from Acura and there is no record of a clutch replacement(only a clutch master cylinder replacement) and from what I can tell all of the owners were in the Sacramento area. The clutch that came out was an OEM clutch.

So it is indeed possible to get over 100K miles on a stock clutch if the terrain is flat and the owners know how to drive a manual well.

 

[tbromley]

There is a member on here who is the original owner that states he got over 100K miles on the stock clutch.

My car went 125K(just starting to slip on hard shifts) on what appears to be the original clutch. I have all service records on the car down to oil changes(even the original window sticker). I even have a service history print out from Acura and there is no record of a clutch replacement(only a clutch master cylinder replacement) and from what I can tell all of the owners were in the Sacramento area. The clutch that came out was an OEM clutch.

So it is indeed possible to get over 100K miles on a stock clutch if the terrain is flat and the owners know how to drive a manual well.

That's pretty damn good service if you ask me Edin. Good for you - did you find that the SOS clutch was more than the OEM? I thought that the SOS was a bit cheaper?

 

[nsxtasy]

That's pretty damn good service if you ask me Edin. Good for you - did you find that the SOS clutch was more than the OEM? I thought that the SOS was a bit cheaper?

Prices per the Science of Speed website:

ScienceofSpeed Sport Clutch & Flywheel $1645 or $1695 (6 puck)
ScienceofSpeed Billet Twin Carbon Clutch & Flywheel $2395
1991-96 NSX factory clutch $1522
1997-2005 NSX factory clutch $2786

 

[tbromley]

Prices per the Science of Speed website:

ScienceofSpeed Sport Clutch & Flywheel $1645 or $1695 (6 puck)
ScienceofSpeed Billet Twin Carbon Clutch & Flywheel $2395
1991-96 NSX factory clutch $1522
1997-2005 NSX factory clutch $2786

Do the factory quotes include flywheels - I doubt the NA2 price does....