Changes for the 2021 NSX, if so what?

[blue_myriddn]

2021 will mark 4 model years after the 2017 release which is the same time that the 1995 Targa version was introduced. Will Acura follow their time table and produce a big update in 2021? If so, with what?

• Targa top?
• New front end?
• Exterior styling?
• Increased HP from battery?
• Type S?
• Type R?

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

2021 will mark 4 model years after the 2017 release which is the same time that the 1995 Targa version was introduced. Will Acura follow their time table and produce a big update in 2021? If so, with what?

• Targa top?
• New front end?
• Exterior styling?
• Increased HP from battery?
• Type S?
• Type R?

Good list.

I would add one more:

Better internal storage/improved practical use

 

[dshinke21]

Good list.

I would add one more:

Better internal storage/improved practical use

I'll say it one more time for the kids in the back

SUNGLASSES HOLDER!

I don't care if your rip it from an MDX to put it in there, just please put one by the homelink buttons like every other Acura.

 

[Chuckgt3]

Front end lift option

 

[Silver F16]

Less weight.

Less horsepower because it is no fun to drive a fast car slow.

No hybrid.

Home grown engine....Honda Motor Company outsource engine on their most expensive car to Cosworth. Have they no shame?

Higher redline would be nice. 7500 redline is for Preludes.

A more aggressive engine note is needed.

Individual drive mode setting.

New dash with analog gauges, hard switch gear,
New head unit and knobs for HVAC controls. Interior trim upgrade befitting its price tag.

Address the build quality issues. Rattles, stinky trunk adhesive, engine cam wear, faulty wire harness. These are not isolated incidents. There are likely common root causes for these design/manufacturing/supplier quality issues.

Revise software such that sensor and hardware failures does not strand the driver. Because there are more systems in this car, Engineers needs to do a lot more work on the VEHICLE level DFMEA and revise hardware/ software to better manage failure mode effects. A lot they can learn from the aerospace industry.

Stop charging an arm and leg for NSX experience. All buyers should get a free NSX experience because this is how you make ambassadors for the brand.

Raise the bar for dealerships for customer experience.

 

[N Spec]

Probably gonna adopt Type S design language, which is a step up imo.

 

[Axxlrod]

Less weight.

Less horsepower because it is no fun to drive a fast car slow.

No hybrid.

Home grown engine....Honda Motor Company outsource engine on their most expensive car to Cosworth. Have they no shame?

Higher redline would be nice. 7500 redline is for Preludes.

A more aggressive engine note is needed.

Individual drive mode setting.

New dash with analog gauges, hard switch gear,
New head unit and knobs for HVAC controls. Interior trim upgrade befitting its price tag.

Address the build quality issues. Rattles, stinky trunk adhesive, engine cam wear, faulty wire harness. These are not isolated incidents. There are likely common root causes for these design/manufacturing/supplier quality issues.

Revise software such that sensor and hardware failures does not strand the driver. Because there are more systems in this car, Engineers needs to do a lot more work on the VEHICLE level DFMEA and revise hardware/ software to better manage failure mode effects. A lot they can learn from the aerospace industry.

Stop charging an arm and leg for NSX experience. All buyers should get a free NSX experience because this is how you make ambassadors for the brand.

Raise the bar for dealerships for customer experience.

Why would you want less horsepower?

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

Less weight.

Less horsepower because it is no fun to drive a fast car slow.

No hybrid.

Home grown engine....Honda Motor Company outsource engine on their most expensive car to Cosworth. Have they no shame?

Higher redline would be nice. 7500 redline is for Preludes.

A more aggressive engine note is needed.

Individual drive mode setting.

New dash with analog gauges, hard switch gear,
New head unit and knobs for HVAC controls. Interior trim upgrade befitting its price tag.

Address the build quality issues. Rattles, stinky trunk adhesive, engine cam wear, faulty wire harness. These are not isolated incidents. There are likely common root causes for these design/manufacturing/supplier quality issues.

Revise software such that sensor and hardware failures does not strand the driver. Because there are more systems in this car, Engineers needs to do a lot more work on the VEHICLE level DFMEA and revise hardware/ software to better manage failure mode effects. A lot they can learn from the aerospace industry.

Stop charging an arm and leg for NSX experience. All buyers should get a free NSX experience because this is how you make ambassadors for the brand.

Raise the bar for dealerships for customer experience.

Great analysis and very comprehensive.

Perhaps some of these can be grouped together.

If you had to prioritize, how would you rank them?

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

Probably gonna adopt Type S design language, which is a step up imo.

Hi N Spec - Its been too long.

I would agree because the Type S is extremely well done but what would that look like? That is, how would they adopt it on the front of the car?

 

[DocL]

Less weight.

Less horsepower because it is no fun to drive a fast car slow.

No hybrid.

Home grown engine....Honda Motor Company outsource engine on their most expensive car to Cosworth. Have they no shame?

Higher redline would be nice. 7500 redline is for Preludes.

A more aggressive engine note is needed.

Individual drive mode setting.

New dash with analog gauges, hard switch gear,
New head unit and knobs for HVAC controls. Interior trim upgrade befitting its price tag.

Address the build quality issues. Rattles, stinky trunk adhesive, engine cam wear, faulty wire harness. These are not isolated incidents. There are likely common root causes for these design/manufacturing/supplier quality issues.

Revise software such that sensor and hardware failures does not strand the driver. Because there are more systems in this car, Engineers needs to do a lot more work on the VEHICLE level DFMEA and revise hardware/ software to better manage failure mode effects. A lot they can learn from the aerospace industry.

Stop charging an arm and leg for NSX experience. All buyers should get a free NSX experience because this is how you make ambassadors for the brand.

Raise the bar for dealerships for customer experience.

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner.

 

[Tom239]

Raise the bar for dealerships for customer experience.

Nice idea but not gonna happen.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I agree with most of your well considered points.

I'm not sure outsourced engine point is completely accurate

My understanding is Honda developed the engine and had the block and heads produced at the low volume racing engine shop, Cosworth.

I see that as an upgrade (and it certainly doesn't save money).

The motors are still assembled by Honda, etc.

For reference, Toyota had the fabulous LFA engines built by Yamaha.

McLaren builds no engines (or trannies for that matter) as Riccardo does that.

For the NSX Honda developed a bespoke tranny as well. Ferrari, Lambo, MB use third party trannies.

Less weight.

Less horsepower because it is no fun to drive a fast car slow.

No hybrid.

Home grown engine....Honda Motor Company outsource engine on their most expensive car to Cosworth. Have they no shame?

Higher redline would be nice. 7500 redline is for Preludes.

A more aggressive engine note is needed.

Individual drive mode setting.

New dash with analog gauges, hard switch gear,
New head unit and knobs for HVAC controls. Interior trim upgrade befitting its price tag.

Address the build quality issues. Rattles, stinky trunk adhesive, engine cam wear, faulty wire harness. These are not isolated incidents. There are likely common root causes for these design/manufacturing/supplier quality issues.

Revise software such that sensor and hardware failures does not strand the driver. Because there are more systems in this car, Engineers needs to do a lot more work on the VEHICLE level DFMEA and revise hardware/ software to better manage failure mode effects. A lot they can learn from the aerospace industry.

Stop charging an arm and leg for NSX experience. All buyers should get a free NSX experience because this is how you make ambassadors for the brand.

Raise the bar for dealerships for customer experience.

 

[Silver F16]

You are right. I just can't get over the fact they outsourced the block and heads. A few decades ago Cosworth and Honda were competing with each other in Indy. Whatever Cosworth can do, Honda can do better...eventually. Engines are Honda's forte and they are the best in the business.

If Soichiro was around, he would have cut off the testicles of the decision maker to outsource the block and heads. These parts even come in with Cosworth etched in the engine part. They didn't do a BMW Supra but since Honda is family to me, i come to expected more out of Honda.

Something tells me that they were budget constrained and didn't want to spend the capital or R&D to develop and manufacturer a low volume engine. Surely they know how to make a race engine better than Cosworth with all their knowledgebase from the different forms of racing from Indy to F1 to LeMans. Hell, the only place you won't find Honda racing is NASCAR but I heard rumors that is about to change. Point is i would rather have a Honda race engine over a Cosworth. Many of you know the engine is extremely expensive and outsourcing doesn't help over the long term because Soichiro believed in making core products in house to advance engineering competence so the company can always have an edge over the competition.

The truth according to insider is that this car was rushed to market due to late changes to increase power and go longitudal mount. Budget was more constrained compare to 1980s when they develop gen 1 NSX. Soichiro also stayed on top of the development, was extremly attentive to details. He wanted the best from the engineers and wasn't afraid to invest R&D because it is an investment that would pay dividends to other models and grow their engineering prowess

About 2 years ago, development of NSX has since moved back to the motherland. They are also displeased with the manufacturing issues in Ohio and one of the heads of Manufacturing at PMC is no longer there.

Engine building is Honda core strength and to outsource manufacturing and development of main components is short sighted and driven largely by bean counters for short term gain.

 

[LandLawMan]

If Cosworth was good enough for a 1975 Chevy Vega, then it’s good enough for me.

But seriously, all of the articles I have read about the NSX engine manufacturing, applaud Honda’s use of Grainger-casted and Cosworth-milled blocks and heads. I remember one respected outlet saying something like: “When was the last time you heard about a crappy Cosworth engine?”

And least you think Cosworth only develops strong, small, efficient engines, read this:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...-martin-valkyrie-cosworth-v12-engine-details/

 

[nsx878]

I'm not a Honda "purist", so the fact that Cosworth supplied the block and heads was actually a plus for me. I have 12 years vintage racing experience and extensive knowledge of Cosworth racing engines. Cosworth has Dozens of Formula 1 Championships. Honda has one. But I do agree that Honda can build an engine, and they are having great success as of late with their Formula 1 engines, winning races again (which, BTW are HYBRIDS!). The "implied" Honda reliability was a plus for me when considering buying the car. Time will tell on that. The drivetrain is warrantied for 5 years and 70 k miles and the hybrid system is warrantied for 8 years and 100k miles........

 

[RYU]

There is a zero chance on this green earth Honda will ever pull the Hybrid from this car. Ok.. Maybe a 1% chance. Not until leadership at the top topples over. So let's look at the hybrid/EV side of things.

Honda has a partnership with Yuasa to produce the batteries in their EV/PHEV/Hybrid cars. Yuasa went for safety and longevity at the expense of weight efficiency. I can't remember the exact spec but for every pound the Yuasa holds 75% less energy than a comparable Tesla, BMW, etc battery pack. So you can either lower the weight of the battery by 25% or increase the power by 25% by using more efficient batteries. Having owned a few EVs and it's variants since 2013 I'm not exactly sure which I would choose for the NC1. EVs have huge benefits if implemented properly. For examply, the weirdo looking 2019 Clarity I now own is really quite a technological accomplishment by Honda. It's better than anything Toyota has right now and they've been the leaders for years. Honda has finally leapfrogged them. This is why I think we're all dreaming if we think Honda will pull the hybrid from the NSX (though I wish they would!!!!!!)

 

[Sterling Sackey]

Surely they know how to make a race engine better than Cosworth with all their knowledgebase from the different forms of racing from Indy to F1 to LeMans.

I agree with most of what you said about Honda as a company and the way in which Soichiro went about running it, but this is a pretty hilarious statement. Cosworth has had 176 wins with its engines in Formula 1, making it the 3rd most successful engine manufacturer of all time in a series which requires the greatest technical and engineering ability in the automotive world. Honda ranks at #5 with 74 wins with its engines. I'm sure you would find the same sort of statistics if you extrapolated this to other forms of racing, in which Cosworth has been legendary since the days when Honda was only producing motorcycles.

The bottom line is, Cosworth essentially exists solely to produce world-class racing engines, with the occasional road car as a fun side project!

 

[Sterling Sackey]

To add to the above post, it's my opinion that Honda should be shouting from the rooftops that they have a Cosworth engine in their supercar. It would give the press something to talk about and add to the mystique of the car. Toyota / Lexus was not embarrassed to do this with the Yamaha-developed V10 in the LFA, and the Cosworth name is arguably much more impressive than Yamaha.

Of course, we all love Honda for their in-house developed engines. But, the reality is Honda was known for N/A high-revving engines, which they went away from on this NSX and in their current lineup across the board. I don't think anyone hears "Honda engine" and pictures a twin-turbocharged V6 that can reach peak power at 6,500 RPM, so I find the premise that the current engine being built in-house would somehow improve the perception of the car doubtful.

 

[dshinke21]

Let's not forget this remarkable beast that Cosworth also developed for the Aston Martin Valkyrie. These people know their engines. Why not take two companies that are incredibly skilled at what they do and let them work together? That is usually what results in the most impressive products and the greatest engineering feats.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a25556096/aston-martin-valkyrie-cosworth-v12-engine-details/

 

[Sterling Sackey]

Let's not forget this remarkable beast that Cosworth also developed for the Aston Martin Valkyrie. These people know their engines. Why not take two companies that are incredibly skilled at what they do and let them work together? That is usually what results in the most impressive products and the greatest engineering feats.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a25556096/aston-martin-valkyrie-cosworth-v12-engine-details/

Exactly. Aston Martin is so proud of the Cosworth relationship that they had Cosworth themselves do the press & media announcements on the engine.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

The Yamaha Toyota thing had the heritage advantage, as they had built the 2000GT for Toyota. Plus they used their musical expertise to tune the sound track for the LFA.

Regarding the Gen 2 NSX engine venture, Cosworth was not used to the level of production volume Honda targeted, and Honda sent folks there to help them get to higher volume (obviously not being used).

 

[Honcho]

To add to the above post, it's my opinion that Honda should be shouting from the rooftops that they have a Cosworth engine in their supercar. It would give the press something to talk about and add to the mystique of the car. Toyota / Lexus was not embarrassed to do this with the Yamaha-developed V10 in the LFA, and the Cosworth name is arguably much more impressive than Yamaha.

Of course, we all love Honda for their in-house developed engines. But, the reality is Honda was known for N/A high-revving engines, which they went away from on this NSX and in their current lineup across the board. I don't think anyone hears "Honda engine" and pictures a twin-turbocharged V6 that can reach peak power at 6,500 RPM, so I find the premise that the current engine being built in-house would somehow improve the perception of the car doubtful.

Also recall that the Honda test mules up until very late in the development process were using an in-house, twin-turbo J35 mounted transversely. They just couldn't get the performance out of it that they wanted, it had a performance ceiling that would not allow much more power development, and it was unsuitable for the GT3 race car program. Thus, they binned it and went to the longitudinal Cosworth race car engine. Unfortunately, using a bespoke race engine added $20k+ to the base price of the car, which had other effects on sales. What always mystified me is that if Honda chose a builder like Cosworth, why stick with the tame 6,500 rpm limit? If I had a Cosworth powered supercar, I'm thinking 8,000+ with the exhaust note to match, regardless of the turbos.

 

[LandLawMan]

What always mystified me is that if Honda chose a builder like Cosworth, why stick with the tame 6,500 rpm limit? If I had a Cosworth powered supercar, I'm thinking 8,000+ with the exhaust note to match, regardless of the turbos.

Longevity, right? A compromise between performance and total engine life? Plus less wear-n-tear on other drivetrain components?

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I believe the expectation was also to have higher power versions later

The current motor got them on the market, and with some headroom for the Type R (not betting that we will see one at this point)

 

[N Spec]

Sounds like this talk of the engine is headed towards V10 territory haha. That would be an interesting variant to see them shoe in that shelved V10 they had testing in the NC1 chassis before ICE engines become almost extinct. Hell they are selling the GT3 version for crazy amounts of money. Might as well make a V10 version if they can fit it somehow without messing up weight distribution for the NC1.

Interesting to read about the battery efficiency remarks. Sounds like maybe in another 5-10 years, the aftermarket offerings for batteries could do some interesting things for these new hyper/hybrid cars.

VP - I just read that the design language will trickle to the whole Acura family after the new TLX Type S drops with rumors of a twin turbo V6 also....
So a new front bumper/rear bumper mid model design would probably occur for the NSX in the next few years logically to match the Acura family. Maybe even new headlights and different hood like the 2002 update being so dramatic.