Cars and Coffee controversy ?

Mike-san

Mike-san

Experienced Member
Joined
21 June 2005
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1,081
So I'm doing business at my credit union and a teller w/ whom I'm friends w/ told me something interesting.....(He's a sportscar nut who trolls around the different forums)..Anyway, he told me that the huge turnout of S2000's that got to park in the main lot pissed off alot of different groups , and that the rules regarding attendence/showing will now be changed because of our NSX "event" and its subsequent result of alot of S2000 guys showing up. Anyone hear anything ?:confused:
 
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So is anyone up for that deal in Calabasis on the last Sunday of the month ? What do we do now if we want to see exotics in a casual setting ? :frown:
 
Mike-san said:
So is anyone up for that deal in Calabasis on the last Sunday of the month ? What do we do now if we want to see exotics in a casual setting ? :frown:
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FYI - the Calabasas meet (Supercar Sunday) is "every" Sunday... but the last Sunday of the month is especially big.
 
Never had to wake up so early in the friggin' morning for a meet, which I didn't find very amusing. So...this is probably my first and last C&C meet I'd ever go to. Plus there'd be no reason for me to go to one anyway cause of the new limit the organizers are putting. Oh well...time to look for another meet spot/event.
 
It was a much nicer meet back in the Crystal Cove days.

Now if you have a 3 series Bmer with CF hood, you get to park your car as a show piece. What a joke.
 
I think an NSX would be admitted to the Irvine C&C under the "special vehicle" caveat. They have to do something to limit the number of cars in the show-area parking lot.
 
TAG said:
I think an NSX would be admitted to the Irvine C&C under the "special vehicle" caveat. They have to do something to limit the number of cars in the show-area parking lot.
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There has always been this one annoying guy at the driveway to cars & coffee - he would either tell you the lot is full, only for you to discover plenty of parking in the back, or he would hand you a flier, that you weren't interested in, by physically walking in front of your car, or frantically motioning to you. Occasionally, he would direct you to spectator parking, again, even with ample parking.

Now this annoying guy has some degree of authority to turn away cars? I thought the entire point of cars & coffee was the lack of organization, that is, the informality of the event. Does this mean Ford has taken charge of the event, and now is responsible for it? I doubt they're interested in the liability of officially organizing this event, and imposing restrictions on it. If the parking lot is still being offered to car enthusiasts, without restrictions on the part of Ford motor company, where does this driveway dictator's authority come from?

The main issue here is the divide between new car enthusiasts, and pre-1978 enthusiasts. I enjoy looking at classic cars... to a point. Perhaps the owners of these classic cars also enjoy looking at exotics, or tuner cars... to a point. This is the driving force behind cars and coffee, to bring a large group of collective enthusiasts together, to park classic next to tuner next to exotic, and do it informally. Once people start jumping out in front of cars and placing restrictions on what cars are allowed based on their personal bias, it destroys the motivation for going. I have been attending since some of the early crystal cove meets, but with this pre-1978 rule, I have no desire, or motivation, to continue going... at least the event went out in style, with nsx's and s2000's present in record numbers.
 
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scorp965 said:
There has always been this one annoying guy at the driveway to cars & coffee - he would either tell you the lot is full, only for you to discover plenty of parking in the back, or he would hand you a flier, that you weren't interested in, by physically walking in front of your car, or frantically motioning to you. Occasionally, he would direct you to spectator parking, again, even with ample parking.

Now this annoying guy has some degree of authority to turn away cars? I thought the entire point of cars & coffee was the lack of organization, that is, the informality of the event. Does this mean Ford has taken charge of the event, and now is responsible for it? I doubt they're interested in the liability of officially organizing this event, and imposing restrictions on it. If the parking lot is still being offered to car enthusiasts, without restrictions on the part of Ford motor company, where does this driveway dictator's authority come from?

The main issue here is the divide between new car enthusiasts, and crusty old (pre-1978) enthusiasts. I enjoy looking at classic cars... to a point. Perhaps the owners of these classic cars also enjoy looking at exotics, or tuner cars... to a point. This is the driving force behind cars and coffee, to bring a large group of collective enthusiasts together, to park classic next to tuner next to exotic, and do it informally. Once people start jumping out in front of cars and placing restrictions on what cars are allowed based on their personal bias, it destroys the motivation for going. I have been attending since some of the early crystal cove meets, but with this pre-1978 rule, I have no desire, or motivation, to continue going... at least the event went out in style, with nsx's and s2000's present in record numbers.
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John,

Where did you see the "pre-1978" restriction?
 
under a different thread, but same section here
 
The language has since been softened. Apparently, the pre-'78 deal was a thought, but they're now generalizing admission to cars that you typically do not drive daily. They contend that while some do indeed drive their rare/special/exotic cars daily, chances are that your daily driver probably isn't suitable for the display area.

From reading the thread, it does appear that John Clinard (Head of Public Relations at Ford) and his wife are two of the people at the entrance directing traffic.
 
CDX_NSX said:
The language has since been softened. Apparently, the pre-'78 deal was a thought, but they're now generalizing admission to cars that you typically do not drive daily. They contend that while some do indeed drive their rare/special/exotic cars daily, chances are that your daily driver probably isn't suitable for the display area.

From reading the thread, it does appear that John Clinard (Head of Public Relations at Ford) and his wife are two of the people at the entrance directing traffic.
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Who determines what is rare or not? Too much room left for interpretation! One thing I do know is the s2000 is a daily driver! If I wanted to see that car I would go to the supermarket. Still upset with that whole fiasco.... It's OK though In time late model Ferrari's,Lambos, and other post '78 year cars will make their way back to the parking lots and eventually the NSX guys will make it back too I believe. As for the s2000 guys, I don't think they will ever be given a chance.
 
Well, I'd argue that my 6-speed Legend sedan is rare, but certainly nothing anyone wants to look at. :D

The NSX probably qualifies under the new, less specific language that they've adopted; maybe even some S2Ks qualify.
 
CDX_NSX said:
Well, I'd argue that my 6-speed Legend sedan is rare, but certainly nothing anyone wants to look at. :D

The NSX probably qualifies under the new, less specific language that they've adopted; maybe even some S2Ks qualify.
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The concern is the existence of these rules, maybe they allow nice cars in, maybe they don't, but you have to wake up early and drive there to find out?

The appeal of Crystal Cove / Cars & Coffee was it was a casual meeting, there were no restrictions, if there were no spots available, it was because you woke up too late. I would have thought it would be easy to see that 100 s2000's arriving for this meeting was a 1-time event, instead it was met with overreaction.

Apparently, the C&C forum is also not official, the real organizers have no website, as they don't want any degree of liability - Ford doesn't sponsor the meeting, as they're also afraid of liability. So where is the authority coming from? I heard that he heard that he received an email that said _____?

But again, I have no wish to ruin my sleep in order to test this theory, especially if the lot is filled with people who want to restrict what car enthusiasts the meet is "fully open to".
 
Yeah, it's too far for me to drive to test the theory; but maybe after I get my '59 Impala running again, I'll drive down to see what cars are and aren't let in.

Ford isn't sponsoring the event, but they are permitting it. If permitting it = sponsoring it, then one could argue that they are indeed sponsoring it.

As you said, C&C was never meant to be a formal show; it was an informal gathering of a large variety of cars. That's why up until now, they haven't had any sort of "official" organization.

I don't see a problem with having a couple of nicely done-up daily drivers there, but do agree that too much of the same thing is, well, blah; the Porsches are probably the most guilty of this.

From reading the thread at the C&C forum, the S2K deal was simply the straw that broke the camel's back (and possibly also because they are "Hondas").

I do agree that this may be over-reaction on the part of the organizers, but I also agree that changes needed to be made before it turns into a farce. My personal opinion is that they should try to make minimal changes and as required. The first change that I would make is to disallow early comers to reserve spots for their friends. Make it so that if you want to be there, be early; otherwise, park elsewhere. This would at least to some extent eliminate those who are too lazy to wake up early, thus freeing up space for others.

I guess time will tell how much of an impact these new rules have on the meet (I hate the use of the word "show" for this event).
 
Its unfortunate that the S2K group decided to show up in force, ruining it for everyone. In retrospect having nearly 80+ NSXs may have been a little overkill too.

The more rules the C&C organizers put in place will make it a harder for them to administer. The harder it becomes to administer, the more likely the C&C organizers will get tired of it and the event will disappear. All we can do is abide by their decision. If someone wants to attend, then they need to get there early and now, take a chance on being allowed into the exhibit area or not.

Personally, I would hope they allow other cars in the exhibit area. All pre '78 cars would get rather boring after an event or two!! Especially since the same cars would get preferential entry.

I too would rather sleep in, rather than get turned away because my car is an '02 and doesn't qualify. And I only live 15 minutes from the venue.
 
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At least Ramon and Matt can come with their Chevelles. Rep it up for us guys!!!
 
Show-up in this and parking wont be an issue:biggrin:


heidelberg-supercar-6.jpg
 

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