Carrera GT accident last year

[johnnybul]

Check this out

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/co...608_466074.htm

THE CLAIMS

The lawsuit asserts a number of claims against several defendants. The more significant are:

• Keaton Estate - Failure to inform Rudl that he had been having handling problems with the Porsche, and that he had a recent incident where he lost control of the car.
• Racetrack owners and operators - Maintaining an unsafe racetrack as a result of inadequate maintenance, signage, and safety controls, and not moving back the concrete barriers after creating the children's play area.
• Ferrari Owners Club and the flagman - Negligently operating the track day by sending the Ferrari onto the track at the wrong time, violating their own rules by allowing passengers in the cars, failing to disclose Keaton's dangerous driving propensities, and allowing the track day to occur without moving the concrete barriers back to where they belonged.
• Ferrari driver - Not paying attention to the flagman, entering the track improperly, driving too slowly, and moving directly into the path of the Porsche.
• Porsche - Product liability for selling an unsafe car. This falls into three levels of defect.
1. There was some mechanical problem with this particular car that made it handle badly.
2. There are design defects with the Carrera GT that make it a poor-handling car, mainly tail-happy.
3. Third: The Carrera GT is too difficult a car to handle at high speeds for the average driver without instruction.

 

[johnnybul]

Sorry,

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jun2006/bw20060608_466074.htm

 

[NSXrunner]

Hmmm I had lots to say...but decided to delete it all. Ill just say that this is a tragedy :frown: for all ..... but now it looks like its going into the "greed" scene...lets sue everybody to get as much money as we can!

Suing one dead mans estate by another because he didnt tell him he had had driving problems. You are kidding right? These are car guys!! There is so much adrenaline and testosterone going around that guys get a little bit of an ego, no one goes around proudly proclaiming they are having problems driving their $400K car. Why not just sue God for giving us the adrenaline and testosterone? I can most probably say that even if he did tell the other guy about his driving problems, the other guy would have still hopped in for an opportunity to ride in the CGT. I would!!

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

There are more stories to this.

Rudl is an accomplished racer. He qualified 6th in Watkins Glen Grand Am racea while ago. Very successful businessman as well as he brought his Lambo to that event.

 

[matteni]

From what I gathered - the track putting the wall perpendicular to the racing line was completely unacceptable but that pales in comparison to the Ferrari that ventured off the track entry line into the racing line. Many of us would be dead too if people entered the track slowly and came off the entry line. The best thing would have been to run right over the top of him but unfortunately they lost control and hit the wall that never should have been setup perpendicular to the racing line in the first place.

Unfortunately - on the track - even if you are in racing competition your lives are in the hands of other drivers and the venue. If you accept a ride as a passenger - you are also in the hands of the driver (Cory was a passenger).

Regardless of what you feel about lawyers and lawsuits - there are many things we can all learn from this.

 

[Hugh]

• Keaton Estate - Failure to inform Rudl that he had been having handling problems with the Porsche, and that he had a recent incident where he lost control of the car.

I used to do business with Corey Rudl. His loss was a tragedy.

I did get a kick out of that quoted assertion though. Failure to inform someone that a Porsche has handling problems? That's like failing to inform someone that the sun will rise in the morning.

 

[Meeyatch1]

This whole thing is just plain sad. Imagine being the widow of the Porsche owner and not only losing your husband, but then getting sued for millions afterwards.

 

[clr1024]

Hmmm I had lots to say...but decided to delete it all. Ill just say that this is a tragedy :frown: for all ..... but now it looks like its going into the "greed" scene...lets sue everybody to get as much money as we can!

Suing one dead mans estate by another because he didnt tell him he had had driving problems. You are kidding right? These are car guys!! There is so much adrenaline and testosterone going around that guys get a little bit of an ego, no one goes around proudly proclaiming they are having problems driving their $400K car. Why not just sue God for giving us the adrenaline and testosterone? I can most probably say that even if he did tell the other guy about his driving problems, the other guy would have still hopped in for an opportunity to ride in the CGT. I would!!

I agree with you on above. I don't think its the drivers fault rather that tracks fault though, for sending the ferrari out. As it was said making a sudden turn at 145 will upset many cars rear ends not just the porsches'. Its tragic, but the list of people that are being sued is ridiculous, let alone suing a dead man. These are the kinds of suits that will perpetuate the US legal system being a mess. I do feel truley sorry for Rudls wife but, I think she can drop the suit against the driver and porsche and focus on the track issues and the flagman issues. Sueing porsche for the handling issues under those circumstances, is similar to a stab victim suing the knife company.

 

[docjohn]

whether you like it or not,for better or worse our legal system is what it is.It is inexpensive to name someone in a suit,but watch those legal bills add up.The only real winners in all of this are,,,,.The more defendants the more laywers,the more laywers the more $ and so forth.In this case who is to say the driver wasn't distracted by his passenger on the front straight,and this contributed to the crash :frown: If this case ever got to a jury the outcome could astound!

 

[schuey1010]

WW

Sad, very sad.

 

[NSXLuvr]

This is a trazedy for sure. Truely disheartening. May they Rest In Peace.

However, the lawsuit is sad too. I don't understand the logic of suing people for money over the death of a family member. Its not like she needs money(Rudl was quite a sucessful businessman). So all it will do is bring back sad memories over months, possibly years for the wives, and family members. The spouses will have to focus on the suits instead of taking care of the kids or trying to move on. Yet after all that pain and turmoil she won't get her husband back and it is unlikely that she will get any financial return. Like DocJohn said - the only people who will make money are the Attorneys.

 

[Ponyboy]

FWIW, the case was just settled. From SCM:

"The lawsuit was recently settled for a reported total of approximately $4.5 million. The contributions to the settlement were about 49% from the estate of the driver, 41% from the track owners and the event organizers, 8% from Porsche, and 2% from the driver of the Ferrari that was claimed to have triggered the crash."

The rest of the article is very interesting: found here.

 

[docjohn]

Very interresting follow up ,,thanks.

 

[ShiftyBob]

WOW... first I've seen this post. I used to work at California Speedway as a Firefighter/EMT, and though I did not see the crash happen, I was on duty that day and responded to the site. It was a pretty gruesome scene :frown: .

We as firefighters have no say in how the track is set-up or prepared, we just provide emergency services. Contrary to many reports, the wall was not set up perpendicular to the track. There needed to be a bend in the wall at that point (I'm sure to route it around something) and the wall was made to deflect any collisions (probably on the higher side of a 45 degree angle). Due to the aggressive manner in which the vehicle left the track, and the way the car spun, it hit the wall from a perpendicular direction.

On a side note... I saw both vehicles that day and never knew it was a CGT. I knew it was a porsche, but I didn't know wat kind. I was not very familiar with the CGT at the time, so I was not aware I was in the presence of greatness. Had I known, I probably would have been watching it more closely and prob would have seen the accident

 

[steveny]

I agree with you on above. I don't think its the drivers fault rather that tracks fault though, for sending the ferrari out. As it was said making a sudden turn at 145 will upset many cars rear ends not just the porsches'. Its tragic, but the list of people that are being sued is ridiculous, let alone suing a dead man. These are the kinds of suits that will perpetuate the US legal system being a mess. I do feel truley sorry for Rudls wife but, I think she can drop the suit against the driver and porsche and focus on the track issues and the flagman issues. Sueing porsche for the handling issues under those circumstances, is similar to a stab victim suing the knife company.

Yeah sure, sue the flagman. It would be hard to find a lawyer if only the flagman could be sued.

 

[NSXrunner]

I dunno, I still say this is a tragedy all around but to sue? Still feels like a shakedown to me. If you have money to hire a lawyer I guess, you get to sue for even more money.

*puts on flame suit*

Its a race track, shit happens, thats why we sign a release form, everyone knows the danger going in, and if they took it lightly, then thats their own fault. There is no such thing as 100% safe, heck why not sue the designer and manufacturer of the airbag also since it didnt help. Or the manufacturer of the concrete barrier for making it too hard? Or the manufacturer of the materials used to make the Porsche? Why not sue God for creating humans with a brain to come up with this stuff?

Just my two cents, not meant to inflame people, but thats how I see this. I do feel for the folks and the loss, but the lawsuit and finger pointing to me is just a way to push the blame to others, what about the responsibility of the driver of the CGT? No one forced him to go 130mph, no one forced the passenger to hop on for a ride...My NSX supposedly tops out at around 165 on paper, but I have no desire to try and hit that speed because I know the potential for accidents goes up and survivability goes down

 

[Ski_Banker]

I dunno, I still say this is a tragedy all around but to sue? Still feels like a shakedown to me. If you have money to hire a lawyer I guess, you get to sue for even more money.

*puts on flame suit*

Its a race track, shit happens, thats why we sign a release form, everyone knows the danger going in, and if they took it lightly, then thats their own fault. There is no such thing as 100% safe, heck why not sure the designer and manufaturer of the airbag also since it didnt help. Or the manufacturer of the concrete barrier for making it too hard? Or the manufacturer of the materials used to make the Porsche? Why not sue God for creating humans with a brain to come up with this stuff?

Just my two cents, not meant to inflame people, but thats how I see this. I do feel for the folks and the loss, but the lawsuit and finger pointing to me is just a way to push the blame to others, what about the responsibility of the driver of the CGT? No one forced him to go 130mph...My NSX supposedly tops out at around 165 on paper, but I have no desire to try and hit that speed because I know the potential for accidents goes up.

Silly Wabbit! This is America! Where would this fine nation be without the ability to sue others for any and all misfortune one might endure!?

 

[steveny]

I dunno, I still say this is a tragedy all around but to sue? Still feels like a shakedown to me. If you have money to hire a lawyer I guess, you get to sue for even more money.

*puts on flame suit*

Its a race track, shit happens, thats why we sign a release form, everyone knows the danger going in, and if they took it lightly, then thats their own fault. There is no such thing as 100% safe, heck why not sure the designer and manufaturer of the airbag also since it didnt help. Or the manufacturer of the concrete barrier for making it too hard? Or the manufacturer of the materials used to make the Porsche? Why not sue God for creating humans with a brain to come up with this stuff?

Just my two cents, not meant to inflame people, but thats how I see this. I do feel for the folks and the loss, but the lawsuit and finger pointing to me is just a way to push the blame to others, what about the responsibility of the driver of the CGT? No one forced him to go 130mph, no pne forced the passenger to hop on for a ride...My NSX supposedly tops out at around 165 on paper, but I have no desire to try and hit that speed because I know the potential for accidents goes up.

How long before someone sues Ford for not putting ESC on their Focus? Hey the technology was there and they chose not to use it. Expect the low end car market to tick up a couple of k per car.

 

[NSXrunner]

Damn you guys responded before I could edit lol. Im a slow typer. Please dont sue me. :tongue:

 

[steveny]

Damn you guys responded before I could edit lol. Im a slow typer. Please dont sue me. :tongue:

If you wanted to edit something out I can go back and bold/red it for you:tongue: :biggrin: There are only 6 errors in your post anyways

I am gonna sue the maker of your keyboard too!!! The guy who sold you the PC, the manufacturer of the car you took the PC home in. The company who made your fingernail clippers, freaking long nails made me mis-type. ERRRRRR

Edit, you know I was thinking I might sue the cashier who checked you out when you bought the pc but I heard he lives in the same neighborhood as the flagman. Oh well guess he gets away. Can anyone think of any other deep pockets I missed? :mad

 

[Energy1]

I agree we are way to much of a litigious society, but after reading the findings...there were a few issues...and the waivers really were not worth the paper they were written on.........






"The Track. The track suffered from two major design defects—the pit-out (exit onto the track) design and the concrete wall along the straightaway that was moved to accommodate the NASCAR race. The problem with the pit-out design was that it brought the drivers onto the track in the middle of the straightaway and the pit-out driver’s view of the straightaway was completely blocked by a guardrail, so the driver had to rely entirely on the flagger when entering.

The aerial view of the track shows how the concrete wall that normally ran parallel to the track was moved to enlarge the area behind it. A second photo shows the Carrera GT crashed in the worst possible place—right where the wall protruded. It looks as the CGT would normally have hit the wall and bounced back toward the track. Whatever happened then would have been better than a 130-mile near head-on crash.

The Organizers. The Ferrari Owners Club requires that all cars pass a technical inspection by an approved repair facility. At a previous event, the FOC President and organizer had been warned by one of their vehicle certifiers that he believed that something was wrong with the handling of Keaton’s car and it should not be allowed to run. They let it into that event anyway, and it spun out three to four times—one time the event organizer was even on board and became nauseous. But he didn’t tell anyone about the warnings and did not exclude Keaton from that event. (As you will see below, it appears the concerns the mechanic had were related to the oversteer inherent in the design of the car, not to any particular mechanical defect.)

Keaton did not have the CGT inspected before this event, but was allowed to sign his own tech inspection form stating that the car was fine. Investigation revealed the FOC had never denied a participant access to a track day on account of a failure to pass tech.

The organizers also failed to enforce the track safety rule about cars entering the track. Pit-out was in the middle of the straightaway, with entry on the left side. But cars on the straightaway tended to stay to the left to set up for the right-hander at the end. To avoid collisions, cars entering the track were required to move to the right side as soon as possible. However, at this event, cars were entering the track and staying on the left side.

The Driver. Keaton was warned about the handling problems with the CGT, ignored his mechanic’s advice, and invited Rudl for a ride without mentioning the problems. And, when the Ferrari came onto the track slowly, he overreacted and spun.

The Ferrari Driver. The Ferrari driver and the flagger blamed each other for what happened, but it was concluded that the Ferrari entered the track too slowly, forcing Keaton to evade him.

Porsche. The sole claim against Porsche was that the CGT was defective because it was designed without electronic stability control, which Porsche calls PSM. McClellan deposed two German engineers on the subject, and their answers were inconsistent. One testified that Porsche did not think that its PSM system would work on the CGT because the car’s frame structure and suspension mountings would create strong vibrations that would interfere with its operation. The other engineer testified that PSM was not offered because the customers didn’t want it."

 

[docjohn]

The asignment of $ responsability is very interresting and I think justified.I take issue with Porsche's 8% ,should have been 0 imo.The barrier being moved for a nascar playground and the modified pitout location conspired for disaster.This does underscore how lax and cavelear many hpde groups have become.Many organizations allow advanced drivers/ instructers to tech there own cars,and some groups just don't play the what if scenario when staging groups around the hot pit track out/in.We remember the thread about the wacky Pocono event were the evo or subie student plowed into the hot pit group waiting to go out,unfortunatly an nsx got wacked.

 

[thouchin]

WOW... first I've seen this post. I used to work at California Speedway as a Firefighter/EMT, and though I did not see the crash happen, I was on duty that day and responded to the site. It was a pretty gruesome scene :frown:

Is this the wall that was hit? Where exactly did the ferrari enter the track? If it was just after the start/finish then I dont see how he could not be on line. It seems like no one could be entering very fast at that point. I bet I would not be past 50mph when entering there.

EDIT: I should have read the follow up link first.

 

[Meeyatch1]

I am still amazed the the widow of the Porsche driver had to fork out approximately $2 million on top of losing her husband, and who knows how much more in legal fees. I am ashamed to be an American when lawsuits like this happen. All parties involved knew the risks of being on a RACETRACK in a PORSCHE CARRERA GT!! Sure...what happened was unfortunate. But it was not like the guy was walking along and innocently got hit by a drunk driver. Being in the car, they both knew what could happen. Anyone who has ever been to a track day has heard the organizers say, 'This is dangerous. You could be hurt or killed'.

 

[RSO 34]

I am still amazed the the widow of the Porsche driver had to fork out approximately $2 million on top of losing her husband, and who knows how much more in legal fees.

The settlement reflects payments of insurance policies. The widow did not have to pay anything personally nor did she incur attorney fees because your insurance coverage provides for legal counsel to be paid by the insurance company to defend you. Considering that virtually all insurance carriers have now excluded coverage for track events it will be interesting to see what happens if there is a similar occurrence in the future.