Car on lift, please help fast

[stuntman]

Tire temps will tell you what to do with your camber. Measure HOT with no cool down laps as soon as you stop the car

Stiffening dampers will have no affect on reducing travel, especially in long banked corners like at WG.

1" is ALOT. Don't raise the front 1". Try 1/2".

Iirc you have to "clock" the offset of the lower control arm bushing to get over 3* of camber up front.

 

[Hrant]

Tire temps will tell you what to do with your camber. Measure HOT with no cool down laps as soon as you stop the car

Stiffening dampers will have no affect on reducing travel, especially in long banked corners like at WG.

1" is ALOT. Don't raise the front 1". Try 1/2".

Iirc you have to "clock" the offset of the lower control arm bushing to get over 3* of camber up front.

Billy, I am sure you have more knowledge in these matters than all of us combined. Having said this, are you willing to pay for Dave's fender if it gets damaged at just 0.5" raise and softer damper setting. Just asking :wink:

 

[stuntman]

Billy, I am sure you have more knowledge in these matters than all of us combined. Having said this, are you willing to pay for Dave's fender if it gets damaged at just 0.5" raise and softer damper setting. Just asking :wink:

I think he needs to fix it. I also think if he simply raises the front alone 1" it could create even worse problems with the handling of the car. I feel 0.5" might be a good middle ground since he has 1000lb front springs. Also if you're in pretty much any turn at WG (long duration and banked), the dampers will have no affect on the peak travel of the suspension, but rather slightly slow down the transient phase to the steady-state height when cornering (in addition to the vertical load from the banking). :tongue:

 

[TURBO2GO]

So I'm here and I cannot go into turn 1 hard because when I slow fast off the front straight it loads up the front and when I turn hard right the tire rubs and it feels like torque steer as it pulls the steering wheel in my hand. I went somewhat slow on certain turns today. I maxed the compression that was no help as billy pointed out. I raised the coils in the garage with my limited tools and I used a floor jack handle to bend all
the tabs backs. I raised the front as much as I could but I'm now maxed out at the top of the damper. It's ok... I can be mindful and drive without rubbing but it's definitely slowing me down. I'd be faster with my yokohamas. Lesson learned is be prepared and don't make last minute changes to your car. Having fun here anyway weather was good and the cars here are unreal. I'm still faster than all but a couple of guys. I think once I get the NT01s to fit and I actually get my harness installed so I'm not holding my body in place using the steering wheel I would be pretty fast.

 

[Hrant]

Dave - try the following to see if it helps. Brake earlier then get back on steady throttle just before turn in. This is different from going slow after breaking hard before a turn. When you get back on throttle before turn in, the traction on the rears will shift the load from the front to the back and that will raise the front.

As for the dampers being at stiffer - I am not familiar with WG except what i see on TV, but the stiffness helps from having a pogo effect if you are switching from off camber to on-camber and back and forth switchbacks. If you have relatively long and banked turns then definitely being on the throttle to shift some of the weight will help.

Have fun .....

 

[TURBO2GO]

Iirc you have to "clock" the offset of the lower control arm bushing to get over 3* of camber up front.

Can someone tell me what the above means?

Hrant I did exactly that and it was better. I have a video of my tail coming around on 9. I went completely sideways and was staring straight ahead at Armco. I saved it and kept going to my instructor's delight (and mine being I didn't just damage my NSX). I am still not quite sure where I messed up. Didn't really phase me that much as it felt like drift class. Those were well worth the money.

 

[docjohn]

good save in 9..that long decreasing radius can catch you out with little room for 4 wheels off at track out.

 

[Hrant]

So Dave, I am assuming you still had some rubbing but less with changing your braking/turn-in?

I looked at WG map, is 9 the downward sloping right hand turn? If so, it says it has a 10 degree banking on the short loop - not sure if the same for the long loop. Was the "sideways" on cold tires or did you take the turn off line hence caught some marbles, or ? Did the "sideways" happen at the middle of the turn or at track out? Video would be greats

 

[docjohn]

9 is a a left hander that is on the long course config.....the nascar guys never see it.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Action at about 21:30. If anyone has the patience to watch all 20 minutes I am open to comments. I didn't know what to do with that 911. I let him pass but he was actually slower than me. You can see me on his ass for over a full lap with no point by from him and I believe he was an instructor there. My instructor was a 35 year veteran, gabber but pretty good guy. Change the video quality to 1080P please before viewing.

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/_cnu3YMRgwk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[illwillem]

 

[TURBO2GO]

LOL... yup... that's WGI.

- - - Updated - - -

By the way... I don't think I would run at all with a larger sway bar. Being at WGI versus NHMS and on NT01's versus AD08's makes a shitload of difference. Now I changed my mind about wanting softer springs I think I used every bit of the 1000 pounds up front. But the lean is what causes the 235 to just rub, I think with a bigger bar I may not need to do anything else. I just didn't feel it with the smaller track and the street tires.

 

[illwillem]

Man that is sketchy, I don't know if id drive 10/10ths there in my NSX. Something as stupid as oil or coolant down that results in a spin and tap could have HUGE consequences for an aluminum chassis. You're a braver man than I.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I don't think I was at 10/10 at all... not even 9/10... I wasnot pushing that hard. I coast into that last part of the straights... I am not hard enough on the brakes to engage ABS. I know even on turns there is a ton more grip left. What makes you think I was 10/10? my first two laps are always slow too. That tail came around most likely because I was still on the brakes. I am guessing... tough to remember now.

 

[CL65 Captain]

1st the audio sucks balls.

2nd even though I couldn't hear what he was saying your instructor talks WAY TOO MUCH.

The silver 911 towards the end was trailbraking deeeep. He was also on the gas much sooner and harder than you and that's why he would pull from you from track out and then you would catch him in the next braking zone. He was braking lighter but trailbraking deeper - to the apex on some turns.

Nice driving Dave. And nice save at the end.

 

[TURBO2GO]

LOL Jim he freaking talked my head off. He was going on about some personal story literally for 20 of my 25 minute sessions once. I tried to distratct him by saying "should I brake later here" and he still went back to his story. It was F'in distracting as all hell. So I was dealing with my rubbing and him yapping as well as actual driving. I think you are right I can probably be on the gas sooner.

I put some foam on the camera mic it didn't help. I think I had the mic sensitivity up too high but the picture is terrific.

 

[CL65 Captain]

After you using a gopro? Foam won't work, you need a deadcat cover for the Mic.

 

[silver2002]

Turbo:
Some say the harness system is the first mod to make to a car - I got mine in and it changes everything.

So I'm here and I cannot go into turn 1 hard because when I slow fast off the front straight it loads up the front and when I turn hard right the tire rubs and it feels like torque steer as it pulls the steering wheel in my hand. I went somewhat slow on certain turns today. I maxed the compression that was no help as billy pointed out. I raised the coils in the garage with my limited tools and I used a floor jack handle to bend all
the tabs backs. I raised the front as much as I could but I'm now maxed out at the top of the damper. It's ok... I can be mindful and drive without rubbing but it's definitely slowing me down. I'd be faster with my yokohamas. Lesson learned is be prepared and don't make last minute changes to your car. Having fun here anyway weather was good and the cars here are unreal. I'm still faster than all but a couple of guys. I think once I get the NT01s to fit and I actually get my harness installed so I'm not holding my body in place using the steering wheel I would be pretty fast.

 

[illwillem]

Iirc you have to "clock" the offset of the lower control arm bushing to get over 3* of camber up front.

Can someone tell me what the above means?

The OEM bushings have a hole directly in the center, the Comptech bushings have the holes offset. Since the knuckle fits into the holes you can lean it depending on how you press in the bushings.

what i think happened to yours was this:


If both holes are facing the same direction- in this case both at the 3'oclock position you're not offsetting the top or bottom therefore getting no gains from the bushings.

How they should looks is this:


this is the front passenger side of my car looking forward. you'll notice that the bottom hole is at the 3'oclock and the top bushing is at 9'oclock, that offset difference is what increases camber by leaning the knuckle that the wheel is attached too.

Heres a picture of them stacked on top of eachother you can see the difference clearly. If you had the same people that told you that a 0* toe setting is "dangerous" press those in for you I suggest that you find another mechanic pronto.



---

When I replaced my front inboard suspension with the tiDaves stuff I had him install a concentric bushing on the lower hole where the A arm connects, then when I installed my bushings i maxed the bottom hole (3'oclock) but ran the top bushing at 6'oclock to increase my caster over the stock max. This is extremely helpful at centering the wheel at speed with the beefcake ball joints i put in.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I don't think mine was done like that. I believe they are both facing 3 o'clock. I don't have comptech bushings I have tiDave's. This cost me $600 to do. Just the labor... nevermind the $440 part. So $1040 later and I may have to pull it all back out and repressed to the tune of another $600? That's a $1700 mod to get me more camber up front. I hope I am wrong about something here. Thanks a lot for the pics and explanation.

 

[illwillem]

That's a bummer. $440 for the part, yikes.

Thinking about it again, if both top and bottom are facing the same direction in or out you're moving the inner/outer edge of the wheel 1/4 or more too. This may account for you're excessive rubbing on the same set up others have.

 

[stuntman]

I think fxmd just turns it with a wrench to re clock it...?

1 - Fix your mic

2 - Work up to braking harder with more pedal pressure

3 - Next time mount your camera so you can see your steering inputs (to better understand what you're doing and how the car's reacting) but from what I can infer, your car might look a little loose. Seems to have a lot of front grip on throttle.

4 - For your little 'moment', was that the clutch release on a downshift? It sounded a bit like you blipped the throttle and then it snapped loose, not sure if it was from an improper rev-match at turn-in?

5 - Did you measure tire temps?

 

[Dimer]

I don't think mine was done like that. I believe they are both facing 3 o'clock. I don't have comptech bushings I have tiDave's. This cost me $600 to do. Just the labor... nevermind the $440 part. So $1040 later and I may have to pull it all back out and repressed to the tune of another $600? That's a $1700 mod to get me more camber up front. I hope I am wrong about something here. Thanks a lot for the pics and explanation.

If it's Dave's bushing you might be lucky. I believe they are adjustable. My CT bushings are not.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I think fxmd just turns it with a wrench to re clock it...?

1 - Fix your mic

2 - Work up to braking harder with more pedal pressure

3 - Next time mount your camera so you can see your steering inputs (to better understand what you're doing and how the car's reacting) but from what I can infer, your car might look a little loose. Seems to have a lot of front grip on throttle.

4 - For your little 'moment', was that the clutch release on a downshift? It sounded a bit like you blipped the throttle and then it snapped loose, not sure if it was from an improper rev-match at turn-in?

5 - Did you measure tire temps?

Air temps were 38-39 hot off the track front and rear.

Braking- I am getting some ABS action. I am not sure I can brake harder, there is no more grip.

Will fix camera for next event.

My downshift was well completed before the turn. I was in 4, went to 3 before the turn, stayed in 3 the whole time.