Cantrell Air Induction System/Uni Dual Stage Foam Filter = 6.9 hp / 4.1 tq peak gain

[Casper91]

It seems to me that both the stock intake and the AIS funnel air into the same hole in the air filter housing. If there is no ram air effect like most speculate

When I removed the OEM scoop and compared it to the AIS, I couldn’t believe
the difference.

Best analogy I have is if you were to tape a straw to your mouth so you could only breathe through the straw. Start running. That's the OEM scoop.

 

[gobble]

When I removed the OEM scoop and compared it to the AIS, I couldn’t believe
the difference.

Best analogy I have is if you were to tape a straw to your mouth so you could only breathe through the straw. Start running. That's the OEM scoop.

But if that straw had a big funnel on the end (like the AIS), you would still have the same problem sucking through that straw. You still ultimately suck through the same small hole. I agree the funnel would be beneficial if there was a ram air effect into it, but everything I've read tells me that air does not ram into the side vents.

 

[NsXMas]

But if that straw had a big funnel on the end (like the AIS), you would still have the same problem sucking through that straw. You still ultimately suck through the same small hole. I agree the funnel would be beneficial if there was a ram air effect into it, but everything I've read tells me that air does not ram into the side vents.

If you try to suck air through a straw, then compare that to sucking air through a cone, you will feel a difference due to the faster air flow. So there is a distinct advantage, which is measured by the dyno shown above.

 

[Casper91]

When sucking air through a straw, the air still goes in the hole in your throat to your lungs. Remove the straw and breath thru your mouth - air travels through the same hole in your throat. Which gives you more air?
If your body can breath, your performance will be improved.
Same goes for your car.

 

[nis350]

this 91 has 275 RWHP? Isn't that high for a stock 91? What other mods does it have? Could these other mods contribute to the HP gain?

 

[AutoVation]

this 91 has 275 RWHP? Isn't that high for a stock 91? What other mods does it have? Could these other mods contribute to the HP gain?

I think you missed it in the first post:

You can find more information about the car used here:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/revol...r%5Fcars/Chang/

 

[speed400]

Re: Cantrell Air Induction System/Uni Dual Stage Foam Filter = 6.9 hp / 4.1 tq peak gain

I may be looking at this all wrong but couldn't the gains be attribituted to the fact that
1- the air moving through the AIS is less turbulant than the air flowing through the stock intake tube? Smoother is better right? Along with the larger opening thus the ability to "gulp" more air in
2- that the stock tube is open on both ends so it is realy just creating a flow of air that the intake system pulls from. I remember reading something in the FAQ under intake upgrades where some guys were pluging the back hole to create a quasi (sp?) ram air condition. The AIS would then benifit from this as well because it is a direct shot into the air box.

The ram air condition would not have any effect on these numbers as Chris had said it was a stationary dyno and they did not have fans but it may provide a additional small real world gain when driving due to a ram-air effect from the movement of the car.

FWIW just my novice view of things. :tongue:

Bill

 

[Litespeeds]

I truely believe that the AIS with the Uni filter is a great combo and know it probably adds more horsepower than is dynoed when driven in the real world with air being semi-forced into the side vent. I didn't take my car to the dyno but with a K&N FIPK, Comptech exhaust, short gears, light flywheel and race clutch, I was able to hit a 13.6 at 103mph in the 1/4. When I removed the K&N FIPK and replaced it with the stock airbox, uni-filter and Cantrell AIS along with the installation of Comptech headers, I ran a 13.2 at 106mph. The only thing is the 13.6 was with lighter tires and wheels which was the stock 16x8 with 225/50/16 A022 tires and the 13.2 was with much heavier 18x10 Volk AV3's with 275/35/18 S-02 tires. Not a really accurate comparison but I know the Cantrell AIS helped out in the numbers.
When you actually remove the stock intake tube, you will see why the AIS is such a big improvement. Like others have stated, suck through a straw and see how much air you can get and then open your mouth and take a deep breath.

 

[gobble]

Like others have stated, suck through a straw and see how much air you can get and then open your mouth and take a deep breath.

I think you're missing my point above. If the straw is the same size as your mouth, the straw would not cut the airflow. If the straw was bigger than your mouth, it wouldn't help airflow. In both cases, you're limited by the size of your mouth. Your mouth size (the stock airbox hole) doesn't change by adding the CIS. The only way you would ever benefit is if there was a ram air effect from outside air ramming through the side vent.

 

[Litespeeds]

If you ever open up the wheel well and take a look at where the stock intake scoop is located and how it looks, you will know exactly what I am trying to say. I have pictures of this posted somewhere and will try to post some later if I have time.

 

[TigerNSX]

Re: Cantrell Air Induction System/Uni Dual Stage Foam Filter = 6.9 hp / 4.1 tq peak gain

If this is the case, why is it bad to completely remove the intake scoop (the one that sits inside the fender wall)??

Dirts and debris will be caught by the filter, right? So, what is the downside of not running the duct at all??

 

[Hiroshima]

Re: Cantrell Air Induction System/Uni Dual Stage Foam Filter = 6.9 hp / 4.1 tq peak gain

If this is the case, why is it bad to completely remove the intake scoop (the one that sits inside the fender wall)??

Dirts and debris will be caught by the filter, right? So, what is the downside of not running the duct at all??

I am not an expert but I think the best way to explain your question is by looking at individual throttle body intakes. The bell shaped curved lip of the throttle body helps to smooth and straighten the air entering into the intake. If you just took a straight tube of the exact diameter of the intake you would have a lot more air turbulence which will reduce the velocity of the air entering the intake. Velocity, I would imagine, has a great deal to do with volume.

If you look at all ITB setups, as well as most well designed intake filters, they all have some kind of velocity stack. By simply removing the OEM snorkel off of the inside of your fender, you are, in essence, removing Honda's very poor attempt at a velocity stack. SOS's version looks like a far smoother air flow path which should help that much more.

HTH

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Re: Cantrell Air Induction System/Uni Dual Stage Foam Filter = 6.9 hp / 4.1 tq peak gain

We ran a pull with out the stock intake track (straight into box) and the car lost about 2-3 horsepower compared to having the track in place probably from not having static airflow volume available and turbulence from the sharp inlet.

Cheers,
-- Chris

 

[TigerNSX]

Re: Cantrell Air Induction System/Uni Dual Stage Foam Filter = 6.9 hp / 4.1 tq peak gain

Thank you. Very interesting!!

 

[Litespeeds]

OK. Here are the pictures of the stock induction system compared to the Cantrell Air Induction System from 4 different angles. I also took a picture from inside the wheel well to show the relationship of the intake area to opening of the vent. Notice that the AIS covers the intake opening completely while the stock air tube is actually above the intake opening. If anyone does not believe that this would improve performance, I don't know what else to tell you. The numbers don't lie and neither does the pictures.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

Re: Cantrell Air Induction System/Uni Dual Stage Foam Filter = 6.9 hp / 4.1 tq peak gain

This has to be a conspiracy, Ken says that intakes make ZERO power on an NSX :biggrin:

 

[W]

If anyone does not believe that this would improve performance, I don't know what else to tell you.

Not saying that the Cantrell AIS doesn't have any real world gains but how can you just look at the two and determine which has what characteristics? What kind of background do you assume everyone has? The proof is in the testing and re-testing and even more testing, not just from looking at pictures.

 

[racerx24]

Re: Cantrell Air Induction System/Uni Dual Stage Foam Filter = 6.9 hp / 4.1 tq peak gain

If this is the case, why is it bad to completely remove the intake scoop (the one that sits inside the fender wall)??

Dirts and debris will be caught by the filter, right? So, what is the downside of not running the duct at all??

the answer is....COOL air as opposed to the hot air in the engine compartment.

 

[ak]

My thinking on this is that cantrell AIS does not give noticeable gain but it's worth the $$ for the sound. My dyno before/after AIS showed no change. Seat of the pants dyno is usually not accurate either so let's not use that. :tongue: It sure sounds faster tho.

-ak

 

[gobble]

My thinking on this is that cantrell AIS does not give noticeable gain but it's worth the $$ for the sound. My dyno before/after AIS showed no change. Seat of the pants dyno is usually not accurate either so let's not use that. :tongue: It sure sounds faster tho.

-ak

Your dyno was unchanged? Do you have the Unifilter?

 

[ak]

Your dyno was unchanged? Do you have the Unifilter?

I have K/N filter. I did not change the filter before and after.

 

[NsXMas]

I have K/N filter. I did not change the filter before and after.

You should try the Uni filter. As noted above and in another thread, the K/N filter has less surface area than even the stock air filter. So if it's highly constricted I wouldn't expect to see differences in any air intake device.

It'll be the best $64 you'll spend, dollar for dollar, on hp gain, if used with the Cantrell AIS.

The Unifilter is also washable, and re-usable, so you do not have to replace it if it's properly cared for.

 

[ak]

You should try the Uni filter. As noted above and in another thread, the K/N filter has less surface area than even the stock air filter. So if it's highly constricted I wouldn't expect to see differences in any air intake device.

It'll be the best $64 you'll spend, dollar for dollar, on hp gain, if used with the Cantrell AIS.

The Unifilter is also washable, and re-usable, so you do not have to replace it if it's properly cared for.

I dunno. I'm a little weary about using foam filter. I've heard of not so great stories about them(not particular to the comptech kind).

 

[NsXMas]

I dunno. I'm a little weary about using foam filter. I've heard of not so great stories about them(not particular to the comptech kind).

Anything you can share? Anecdotal stories or actual experiences from people you know?

Here's some research I did that further reinforces my bias against K&N:

K*N: Good for street. Horrible in dry dusty conditions. Fine if its damp-no dust. = almost maximum hp

FOAM: Good all around- good air flow and filtration = slightly less than maximum hp

Paper: Best filtration but worst airflow= Very restrictive on hp

K&N can be DANGEROUS too if used in the wrong conditions!

I use to race go karts on dirt. We tore the engine down after every race. When we ran the K&N filters on dry dusty nightst here was always red mud in the crankcase. This came from the fine particles blowing past the rings. We ran loose oil rings because the engine runs faster that way. These were heavily modified engines. Stock they were 5hp after we modified them to the rules they were 30 plus.

The foam filters never did this. They filtered out all the red dust. We lost a little horsepower with the foam but not much. What I finnaly decided to do was to run the K&N when the dust was low(wet track) and run the foam when the track was a dust bowl.

Trust me a K&N lets dirt in the engine. It will put fine sand on the rings and valves. Those parts will wear out faster. If it gets past the rings you will have very fine particles in the oil that the filter can't remove.

I'm not saying it will blow up immedialty or anything like that but continued use will cause alot more wear than a foam filter.
SO ultimately its up to you If you want peak hp and don't run in dusty conditions run the K&N. I put one in on rainy days on my quad

If you ride dirt roads and run with other riders it's going to be dusty and you should run the foam.

If you ride on pavement K&n is fine. Thats why its ok for most cars. If you ride on dirt roads in your car all day you may have some early ring and valve wear. Which will cause smoking and compression loss. The top ring needs to stay tight for the best compression and HP the bottom 2 just keep oil out and scrape the cylinder wall. Loose is faster. It's also better to burn some oil and lube the top ring and valves. Lead used to do this but now its gone from gas. If you burn oil though you will need to pull the head and remove carbon sometimes with a wire brush on a drill.

Plain and simple.

can tell a tale of Hondas and air filter useage, after prolonged use and driveability problems, but I will spare the details and put in my 2 ¢ worth.

Use the UNI !!

have the foam Notoil on my Raptor and it works just fine. We have been using both foam and K&N for many years. We prefer the foam in the dirt, and the K&N in the sand (with an outerwear).
I always carry a spare filter ready-to-go. This allows me to do the nasty cleaning and re-oil in the garage at my own pace. I prefer to clean and re-oil the K&N, over the foam.
BUT, both have to be done according to spec! My friend just told me he blew out his air filter with compressed air. I said what kind of filter? He said K&N. I said take a close look at it! He had blown small holes in the cotton fiber! K&Ns can be easily damaged.
But, if you get too much or too little oil on the foam filter, it also will not perform well. So pick you poison. But read the instructions and follow them. It's a lot cheaper than a rebuild!

Why are so many quad riders blind about horrible filtration with K&Ns in dusty contitions while every single dirt bike rider knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that K&N will ruin a motor? Could be that most dirt bike riders have been around much longer than quad riders or could just be the BS hype put out by some quad performance shops plus there is all that K&N advertising in quad market when they seem to have conceeded the dirt bike market. Believe ixRAZO. He knows what he is talking about.

There was a study done on this a few years ago in the construction industry. It was done because paper elements on heavy equipment seeing near continous duty required such frequent replacement that the reusability of the K&N was a significant cost advantage. The conclusion was that the test engine equiped witht the K&N had significantly more cylinder bore wear than an identical engine using a paper filter, and that the decreased interval between overhaul would not make up for the savings. If I remember it was also noted that dust was evident inside the air intakes after the filter on the K&N. This is in a situation where the filter is essentially surrounded/submerged in dust.

I haven't seen any posts saying foam filters are bad, just posts cautioning against K&N filters. Given how much smaller surface area the K&N filter is, it's a no-brainer that I'd go with the Uni filter.

Some more research (marketing?)

Our Conclusion is just as we stated previously: There is absolutely no better filtering media than oiled foam.

One more source

Bigley used a vacuum assembly, rated at 540 CFM, to pull air through the airbag. To test filtering efficiency, he coated three 4" X 4" ceramic plates with a very sticky tack oil and placed the plates inside the airbox on top of the fan cage so they could trap the particles that passed through the filter. He photographed each plate after test end.

Bigley reports, "K&N came in dead last in this test as expected. I expected the AC filter to do the best in the filtering efficiency test, but it came in just slightly (emphasis Bigley's) ahead of the K&N. Before testing the AC I didn't think anything could get through it, especially with (its) oiled foam wrap. The AMSOIL filter surprised me by winning this contest by a big margin. The advertising claim on the AMSOIL box which says, 'Proven Best for Removing Airborne Dirt' is no idle claim."

In his conclusion, Bigley reports, "From a filtering efficiency standpoint, the AMSOIL oiled foam filter element will protect your engine better than the other two style filters tested. No doubt about it."

 

[W]

Anything you can share? Anecdotal stories or actual experiences from people you know?

The foam filter that came with my JR CAI (for my Miata) is known to disintegrate and get sucked into the motor. I just keep an eye out for signs of this and will replace with a pre-oiled new one instead of cleaning and re-oiling.