Camber kit good or bad?

[TURBO2GO]

I have one. Yes, it's hotter on the outside. I already know the outer tire wear is bad. I'm just asking if anyone else has this problem or if i'm unique.

Yes, we know you follow whatever Billy says lol i'm just teasing now...

I don't have this problem. I've never seen this kind of outer side wall wear past the tread blocks. Neither on the start spec nor the AD08. I am at -1.5 front and -2.5 rear.

 

[1K2GO]

I don't have this problem. I've never seen this kind of outer side wall wear past the tread blocks. Neither on the start spec nor the AD08. I am at -1.5 front and -2.5 rear.

I'll bet if you put Billy behind the wheel of your car he could induce this condition. Maybe a couple other people here could too...

It is a process that you will gradually build up to. The faster you corner the more negative camber you will need. I ran -4 front & -3 rear on my 911. More if I could get it.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I plan on increasing it for my track events as you've recommended before. I drive pretty hard though maybe I just haven't looked hard enough to see this.

 

[GUNDAN323]

Hi Rob,

I know the front fender liners rub with 235.

But does it still rub at full lock turns even after you "massaged" the front inner wheel wells with a mallet?

 

[TURBO2GO]

That is what I want to know. If I say screw it and remove my liners, will it still rub something else like a non-neutered puppy. I am willing to massage the inside of the fender a little as well.

 

[RYU]

we were able to get -2.2 degs of front camber today. i'm a happy camper. i was shockingly at -.9 before!

 

[1K2GO]

Hi Rob,

I know the front fender liners rub with 235.

But does it still rub at full lock turns even after you "massaged" the front inner wheel wells with a mallet?

No mallets or hammers were used in the massaging of my fenders. Just my lucky 34" Easton alloy baseball bat.

With my 17x8 Advans, the tire makes contact with the upper leading edge of my (rolled) fender and some contact on the inner fender wall at full compression. None of this contact compromises the tire or bodywork.

 

[TURBO2GO]

So this is what I must do to get a 235 in:

Remove fender liner
Roll the fender some
get 3+ degrees of negative camber by buying a camber kit

I will still have some rubbing, but nothing dangerous.

Right?

 

[1K2GO]

Yes, but I would say -2.5 degrees or better w/camber kit and don't forget the undercoating.

The highest point of the radius of your fenders is where you need to roll that lip. If you've never performed this work I'd leave it to someone who has.

 

[Hrant]

+1 with one caution. If you have the non-compliant pivot clamp, make sure that when you beyond the -2.5+ camber that it is not rubbing the clamp. The clamp is tapered because of this potential depending on tire/wheel offset. I personally think for your street/track driving -2.5 should be enough.

 

[docjohn]

Dave man you are going to have the ultimate street/track targa:topsy_turvy:

 

[TURBO2GO]

I have it be at WGI end of the month an would love to try the new setup there. I can't get a hold of Nate as he's probably making supercharges so the camber kit there seems to be a no option even if I can get it, Dave's is $400 plus probably another $300 in installation and the tires, the alognments, the clutch that I may have to do, my 3 day class fees, hotels, new HANS device, my 4 HD cameras, it's all really starting to add up so I am trying to keep at least the camber kit cost down a little. SOS doesn't seem to sell a kit, are there any other options?

Can I get 2.5 stock or is that out of the question?

I can't believe now me of all people is going to go to the stretch and poke hellaflush crowd with my tail tucked between my legs asking them if they can help me roll my fenders.... Hhahahahaha I deserve this for all the jokes of my past. Dude damaged his own fender with his dropped and poked fitment and I wrote on his wall "hi, State Farm? Yeah I ran over my own fenders with my tires, is that covered?" ... Now I have to go borrow his fender roller... LOL

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Hrant thanks for the tip. I do have Dave's front clamps. I will keep an eye out.

 

[Hrant]

Dave man you are going to have the ultimate street/track targa:topsy_turvy:

Frankly, for a while I thought I was going to be the claimant for that title until Dave started his program with polls :tongue:

I think I have pushed mine to the edge of "balanced compromise" between street/track at probably half of what Dave spent :biggrin:

And Dave I seriously doubt that you can get to -2.5 in stock configuration - but then again, you can try; it's only money to redo it LOL!

 

[RYU]

I think I have pushed mine to the edge of "balanced compromise" between street/track at probably half of what Dave spent :biggrin:

And Dave I seriously doubt that you can get to -2.5 in stock configuration - but then again, you can try; it's only money to redo it LOL!

I was just thinking this

We got to -2.3 deg of neg cam but i'm not *that* low. Another 1/4" of ride height adjustment and I could have probably gotten there. I hope Dave has a good NSX alignment person. it's tricky to get the -2.x. You have to fiddle with the toe and the caster in a particular order... I could just see some newbie alignment guy saying to himself. F*ck this shit. Those forum guys are on crack!

I wish I had Dave's money! hehehe

Dave - If I was you.. I'd progress at this in stages spread out over a few years. You'd have more fun too. But hey.. Who am I! I'm a nobody in these parts

for the rest of you guys.. what do you think of this alignment spec on 215/255 17/18 street tires? You can safely assume the other side (not shown in the picture) is dead nuts the same. Also installed the non-compliance bushing and tie rods. Awesome mod.

Don't get distracted by the Ms. in the bikini. She likes to walk around with hardly anything on.

 

[Hrant]

RYU - the alignment is in part what you like to see in your car/driving style as well. If you have mixed street/track driving, which I suspect you do, I think you may have too much toe out on the front. This may cause a decrease in stability at high speeds (and street road ruts) but give you better turn in stability (which you can pick with 235). Otherwise, my alignment is almost the same as yours; a tad more in rear toe (just shy of 4mm) and my front toe has been - 0.04" or -1mm after camber kit and all Comptech Pro suspension mods. Before, for years I was running closer to -2.0 to -2.5 mm toe in the front. I don't have much inside wear on the fronts now.

Check the right side camber it should be closer to 9 degrees unless you were sitting in the car.

And I still think anyone with a CTSC that is tracking, should opt to go with 235/265-275 balance. Your 215/255 will limit you. Just MHO.

 

[TURBO2GO]

And I still think anyone with a CTSC that is tracking, should opt to go with 235/265-275 balance. Your 215/255 will limit you. Just MHO.

Even on slicks? Like Kumho Ecsta V710 is basically a slick and comes in a 215 front but you'd have to drop to a 245/35/18 rear. And then there's the Hoosiers at 225. I'm just trying to learn something here. Is the extra 10 or 20mm up front that important? And for the sake of knowledge and discussion, couldn't one mix tires and just make it work through suspension adjustments? Like for example if you were crazy and ran a kuhmo ecsta 215/40/17 front and a nitto nt01 275/35/18 out back. Is that nuts? Why couldn't you make that work with some fine tuning of your sway bars, spring rates, etc. both are technically DOT legal although the kuhmo has like one cut in the whole tire. Is what I'm saying just crazy?

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Maybe they heat cycle differently and it's not worth the headache but what about ecsta up front and a BFG R1 out back?

Now one is rated at a UTQG of 30 and one at 40. Both are DOT legal and both look like slicks with two grooves. And you have a 215/40/17 front ecsta and a 275/35/18 rear R1

 

[Hrant]

Dave - realistically ........ if you really know what all the variables each independently do to your car and what each's small adjustment does, yes you can mix and match and also come up with other home made pot pouri scenarios. But, realistically, do you have time to play this much around for each track day? And you will have to do these adjustment before track and then after track. Heck, some of us are lazy that we run the same set-up at each track and often forget to change the brake pads LOL!

 

[1K2GO]

Dave - I have already explored all these tire options and you're really making way too much work for yourself. The Kuomo, BFGoodrich and the Hoosier are basically variations on the same theme of DOT race slick. The most relevant variable for you, me and anyone who tracks their NSX is size options. Of these 3 tires, only the Hoosier is available in optimum sizes front & rear of 225/40/17 & 275/30/18. So why are you even considering these other tires and why are you making so much more work for yourself by even considering mixing and matching different brands???

The Kuomo's don't come in proper sizes to fit the NSX. The BFGoodrich is available in a 235/40/17 and we know that will rub. Of these 3 tires only the Hoosier is available in sizes that will fit the NSX without issue, so why do you continue to wring your hands over this? Btw you don't want to be driving any of these 'slicks' to the track do you? Drive to the track: NT01 is the best option. Extra set of wheels: Hoosier R6. I need a drink!

 

[TURBO2GO]

Dave - realistically ........ if you really know what all the variables each independently do to your car and what each's small adjustment does, yes you can mix and match and also come up with other home made pot pouri scenarios. But, realistically, do you have time to play this much around for each track day? And you will have to do these adjustment before track and then after track. Heck, some of us are lazy that we run the same set-up at each track and often forget to change the brake pads LOL!

True... but I guess once you find the combo that works you could stick with it. I've not seen anyone mix and match tires so I was just wondering why. We mix and match sway bars, brake pads, tire pressures, try all sorts of spring rates too. I was wondering if there is some other reason for not doing it with some similar tires. I guess it's just a lack of experimentation and data. If someone super experienced said "this tire front this tire back with these pressures seems to be an excellent combination" maybe more people would try it. Wish I had regular access to a track to try all this stuff.

So Hrant are you sort of retiring from the more hardcore track work? are you still tracking and just cut way back? I know Jim has slowed down a lot.

 

[Hrant]

...........

So Hrant are you sort of retiring from the more hardcore track work? are you still tracking and just cut way back? I know Jim has slowed down a lot.

Yep, the last two years have been quite scaled back in part because my buddies bailed out from tracking - and street tires just doesn't cut it when you have to tinker with the set up all over again! The recession has dampened interest too with many of the regular local NSX trackers, and prioritizing quality time on the weekends with kids visiting from college or who are have left the nest. I drove only 1392 miles the entire 2012 and this year only about 600 so far!

 

[RYU]

Has anyone mentioned Temperature Ratings between mixing and matching tires? That's really a good way to throw Dave into the Too Much Information for a Casual HPDE Track Day Abyss!

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Thanks Hrant for the alignment feedback. That's pretty much what I was hoping to hear. I've selected my alignment specs with the help of the local guys and willing to compromise with the pros/cons. I do like all 4 wheels always "loaded" from an alignment perspective so to speak. No deadspots on initial turn-in or what not. Unfortunately this translates to higher tire wear like you eluded. Am I still on point here? Anyway.. We'll see at the next track day!

Btw.. even with the CTSC my skills aren't up to needing 235/275s yet. Maybe next year?

At the end of the day I realized the last few years that 80% of my NSX driving is mostly aggressive. However, since my car runs so well now...We'll see how I enjoy driving the really long distances with this setup. I might not like it so much...

 

[Hrant]

Regan - you're good with the alignment. Just make sure you occasionally check the front insides so you are not prematurely surprised, and you can always flip them (inside/out) as long as you don't drive the flipped tires on water!!

The 235/265-275 is just added safety margin bonus