Buy an NSX, or Supercharge my S2k?

[Dave Hardy]

Re: Larry Widmer, Endyn, The Old One, etc.

Proceed with caution. The guy obviously knows a bunch. You can tell that just by talking to him. OTOH, some of his claims have proven to be untrue, so others probably are as well. I'm sure he knows how to build an engine, but some of his business practices have been less than ethical. He has a long history in the Civic / Integra hybrid community. I've been dealing with the cheaper Hondas for close to 10 years, and he has been a subject of controversy for the majority of that.

 

[NeoNSX]

...I'm sooo interested in getting an NSX. I just have the typical fears of buying a used high performance car... I'm afraid if I make this move (buy an NSX) I'll regret it. I guess I'm looking for some encouragement from some of you guys.

Sounds like it's time to face those fears, brother. I heard a great definition: "Fear is the expectation of something that isn't." Don't let it rob you of experiencing the best honda available.

I love S2K's and NSX's; you have nothing to fear buying an NSX.. except watch your speedo.

Check out the NSX, then see if you still feel as keen to supercharge your S2K. I doubt you will though. The NSX has NSXappeal!

 

[Simons2k]

Well, just had a serious talk with my bro about buying my S from me. He's excited about taking the S from me and seeing me get into an NSX. I sort of like this idea since I'll still have my S, in a way.

We'll see what happens...I still need to go test drive one before I make any decisions.

 

[surferX]

First of all, I agree with all above posts, DRIVE AN NSX! If you do, it will make the decision easy. The early NSX's are nice, but the 97+ models are much more refined. You can pick upa 97 at auction for around $36K depending on what part of the country you live in, color, and the connections you have. If you buy private you usually will get better info on the car but pay more.
As for supercharging the S2K I would say that this is a lose, lose situation. You lose the class and appeal of the NSX and you lose the reliability of buying a Honda (by supercharging it). The S2K is cramped in comparison and the stereo sucks. I've driven both many times and there really shouldn't be much of a choice once you drive an NSX. Yes, you can put the top down without much hassle, but you won't get much glory out of having the SC anyhow. You may get a G35, Z4, monster Miata, or the all intimidating Civic to race you but most NSX owners will laugh at you and let you speed away. I've only raced one S2K and I only did it because my buddy talked so much shit I couldn't take it any more. Watching his '04 S2K spin out (90 degrees) around an S-Bend an slam into the curb in my rear view was justification enough as to why the NSX can't be compared to an S2K. He was in my rear view because I was about 3 car lengths ahead of him at the quarter mile (due to the fact that S2K's suck at launch). I'm sure if it was supercharged all that would of happened is that he would have spun out harder and slammend into a tree as he flew over the curb. Not to say that in San Diego there aren't plenty of S2K, Z4, Carerra, Vette, and 350Z owners to race. It's just to say that I've found that most owners of these cars can't drive to begin with and even if they could, the NSX would punnish them at the first sight of a turn.
If you want 0-60 speed keep your money an buy an old Viper - plastic interior and all. If you want a reliable, performance machine, buy an NSX. Don't waste you time on a 4 cylinder wanna be. Please don't think I don't like Honda and their S2K. Every car has it's place in the market. It just my belief that your question is absurd to begin with - similar to debating a SC Z4 to a Z8 which most BMW owners would never do. You can't compare class to speed!

 

[Meeyatch1]

...Every car has it's place in the market. It just my belief that your question is absurd to begin with - similar to debating a SC Z4 to a Z8 which most BMW owners would never do. You can't compare class to speed!

You are missing one HUGE point though. The Z4 and the Z8 are about $80,000 apart in price. The S2000 and an early model NSX are about the SAME price, so his question is much more valid as far as cost is concerned.

Now, back to the original question. I personally love Honda/Acura products, so I own both the NSX and S2000. Having spent years and several thousand miles in both cars I can tell you that when it comes time to decide what I want to drive on long trips or high speed jaunts down abandoned country roads, the NSX is my first choice. I have taken the S2000 on some 'spirited' drives and had a blast as well, but the NSX just feels more stable at high speeds, and is WAY more comfortable over longer trips.

Something else to consider is that strapping a supercharger on any engine, especially the high strung S2000 f20c motor, is going to have reliability consequences in the long run.

Like others have said, you really should go test drive an NSX first. I believe you will find what I have found, that the NSX provides more overall driving pleasure than the S2000. But even if you drive the NSX and decide it is not for you, you still win because you have made an informed decision. There could be worse things in life than having to decide between two great cars like an NSX or S2000.

 

[joove]

We'll see what happens...I still need to go test drive one before I make any decisions.

See if you can get to test drive both a power-steering and the manual-steering (94 and below) versions.

 

[effer]

Go for the NSX!

But the only thing for you to do is to test drive an NSX and decide wich car intrinsically interests you most.

Personnally I have driven both and IMO, there is no comparison between them:

I much much prefer the NSX even though I'd like to own both, because don't get me wrong, the S2K is an incredible technological tour de force ( and I say the S2K not as much as the S2,2K ).

But before buying an S2K, I would still prefer to buy a Campagna T-Rex... which I will do within these two next years... and later a Lamborghini Diablo if Honda doesn't wake up in the 2nd gen NSX saga.

Why go for the NSX?

First: The engine, you don't have to hear a noisy little 4 banger making you think it will explode anytime* but you will enjoy music and truly one of the best sounding engine in the world ( with Ferraris V8 and Mc Laren V12 )

Second: You will have torque and being able to overtake a car without planning it a week before i.e. until you will reach the 6k rpm range...you almost instantly feel the acceleration just after engaging the clutch @ 1,5k rpm...

Third: You will sit in an exotic... IOW choosing between having a full Aluminum construction or only the hood.
I still believe the NSX is a car offering a lot for your money ( when buyed used ) and build a way it will last longer than almost every car...

Of course there are negative things about owning an NSX but you should drive one first and see which package fits you best...

* If I have to endure that kind of torture I'll go all the way with the T-Rex with its motorcycle engine ( ZX-12R ) redlining @ more than 12K...

0-60 around 4 s or less with some minor tweaking
1,9 g skidpad
160 hp for 900 pds
under 5 Liters per 100 km consumption

Tell us when you will test drive the NSX!

 

[surferX]

You are missing one HUGE point though. The Z4 and the Z8 are about $80,000 apart in price. The S2000 and an early model NSX are about the SAME price, so his question is much more valid as far as cost is concerned.

Sorry, but the comparison you're making doesn't hold water. The difference in cost of a NSX and an S2K of similar years is about $60K. You can't compare a new car cost to a ten year old car cost and say that I missed the point on my new car to new car cost comparison. I'd say new car to new car cost comparison is more valid. That doesn't mean he shouldn't by an older NSX. I just think you have to look at apples to apples. At least that's the way I see it. Otherwise I agree with the rest of your post!

 

[Simons2k]

As for supercharging the S2K I would say that this is a lose, lose situation. You lose the class and appeal of the NSX and you lose the reliability of buying a Honda (by supercharging it). The S2K is cramped in comparison and the stereo sucks. I've driven both many times and there really shouldn't be much of a choice once you drive an NSX. Yes, you can put the top down without much hassle, but you won't get much glory out of having the SC anyhow. You may get a G35, Z4, monster Miata, or the all intimidating Civic to race you but most NSX owners will laugh at you and let you speed away. I've only raced one S2K and I only did it because my buddy talked so much shit I couldn't take it any more. Watching his '04 S2K spin out (90 degrees) around an S-Bend an slam into the curb in my rear view was justification enough as to why the NSX can't be compared to an S2K. He was in my rear view because I was about 3 car lengths ahead of him at the quarter mile (due to the fact that S2K's suck at launch). I'm sure if it was supercharged all that would of happened is that he would have spun out harder and slammend into a tree as he flew over the curb. Not to say that in San Diego there aren't plenty of S2K, Z4, Carerra, Vette, and 350Z owners to race. It's just to say that I've found that most owners of these cars can't drive to begin with and even if they could, the NSX would punnish them at the first sight of a turn.
If you want 0-60 speed keep your money an buy an old Viper - plastic interior and all. If you want a reliable, performance machine, buy an NSX. Don't waste you time on a 4 cylinder wanna be. Please don't think I don't like Honda and their S2K. Every car has it's place in the market. It just my belief that your question is absurd to begin with - similar to debating a SC Z4 to a Z8 which most BMW owners would never do. You can't compare class to speed!

surferX, thanks for the advice/opinion. First off, I didn't buy my S to street race anyone, nor drive faster than anyone to watch them crash into a tree in my rear view mirror. I drive the S because it's fun! Spirited drives are an absolute blast in it. Supercharging the S would make it a bit more interesting. Is it worth risking longevity of the engine? I go back and forth on it.

I'm not interested in buying an NSX to put me in a "different class". I don't need a certain nameplate on my car to feel/look better. I would never be that insecure about myself. I'm looking in to the NSX for the same reasons I bought the S. It's a special automobile. It should be fun to drive (not having driven one yet). It's rare, etc... If a certain amount of class comes along with it, great. I guess that's a bonus.

So the dilemma, to give you clarity, is to spend about 5k on a SC, cash, or sell my car to my brother and put the $$ towards a used NSX. I'll be out a few more thousand if I go NSX, that's a non issue though.

The decision is really not a financial one but more of an emotional one. I just need some seat time behind an NSX to see which direction to take.

 

[S Flavor]

surferX, thanks for the advice/opinion. First off, I didn't buy my S to street race anyone, nor drive faster than anyone to watch them crash into a tree in my rear view mirror. I drive the S because it's fun! Spirited drives are an absolute blast in it. Supercharging the S would make it a bit more interesting. Is it worth risking longevity of the engine? I go back and forth on it..

Well said SurferX.. If I tell you, I can drive a 02T (all stock with OEM tires) just as hard and fast around corners (on or off the track) as the 05 Lotus Elise with racing suspensions, would that help your decision?

I'm not interested in buying an NSX to put me in a "different class". I don't need a certain nameplate on my car to feel/look better. I would never be that insecure about myself. I'm looking in to the NSX for the same reasons I bought the S. It's a special automobile. It should be fun to drive (not having driven one yet). It's rare, etc... If a certain amount of class comes along with it, great. I guess that's a bonus.

Class or not, you get it with the car you drive. Rarity is definitely there and so is the "class" when you pull up the red light or the valet. Try looking at a NSX driving by and compare that to a S.

So the dilemma, to give you clarity, is to spend about 5k on a SC, cash, or sell my car to my brother and put the $$ towards a used NSX. I'll be out a few more thousand if I go NSX, that's a non issue though.The decision is really not a financial one but more of an emotional one. I just need some seat time behind an NSX to see which direction to take.

If money is no issue, I say go with the NSX. You can't believe how balanced the NSX is and how well the NSX was made and handle until you actually drive one. I use the 05 Elise as an comparison since you mentioned spirited driving and we all know how well the Elise handles and how light the car is at 1800 lbs. Maintanance is not an issue with the NSX since it's a Honda. Just imagine what the NSX can do with racing tires and suspension?

 

[Simons2k]

Everything so far says go NSX. My bro and his fiance are kinda excited about taking the S from me.

I'm just excited about the possibilities. I just hope I find a super clean NSX. I plan on modding it a bit: 17" & "18's, suspension, exhaust.

I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[nsxtasy]

I plan on modding it a bit: 17" & "18's, suspension, exhaust.

Try living with it as is for a while (say, six months). After doing so, you might find that you might feel differently - maybe you'll want other mods than those, or even no mods at all. But just like test-driving it, you won't know how you like it (and what you do, and don't, like about it) until you actually try it.

 

[surferX]

Everything so far says go NSX.

Good to hear. Now go drive one. You won't be sorry! I know I wasn't. I test drove one NSX and was hooked. I ended up buying one three weeks later. I had wanted an NSX since the day in 1991 that I saw a red/tan one parked in Del Mar and I've never regretted my purchase!

 

[Dr.Honda]

I am one of several on this forum who have owned both the NSX and S2000.
I have some reservations about the durability of the S2000's drivetrain with forced induction. The Comptech supercharger has a fairly significant improvement in low-end but most of the boost still requires >6200 rpm. You will spend > 10 K to do it right. If you are a track or autoX guy, it might be worth it. Otherwise, most of that extra hp is dormant driving around town
(except for bragging rights). The NSX, on the other hand has more low-end grunt and exotic appeal. I applaud your good taste either way.

 

[swbatte]

I heavily modified a Prelude a few years prior to owning my 92 NSX. (Full JG race prepped motor, full suspension on and on and on). The mods transformed the car but I learned two things.
One, each mod will expose the next 'weak link' in any car's performance chain while compromising the intent of factory engineering somewhat.
Second, I decided that I wasn't going to buy another car that I needed to modify to get the performance I was after. I would buy one that perfomed the way I want it to from the factory.
The S2000 is a great performer and I can't comment on the S/C, but I know adding the power would lead to other mods later that would never out perform an NSX anyway (unless you spend more than the cost of a used NSX).
My 2 cents...

 

[nsxtasy]

The mods transformed the car but I learned two things.
One, each mod will expose the next 'weak link' in any car's performance chain while compromising the intent of factory engineering somewhat.
Second, I decided that I wasn't going to buy another car that I needed to modify to get the performance I was after. I would buy one that perfomed the way I want it to from the factory.

One other thing that may (or may not) be a consideration, in addition to the reliability issue. When you spend additional money on upgrading to a "better" stock car, you are more likely to get most of your money back when you some day sell your car, whereas money spent on mods is unlikely to be recouped in market value.

 

[SCS2k]

I am one of several on this forum who have owned both the NSX and S2000.
I have some reservations about the durability of the S2000's drivetrain with forced induction. The Comptech supercharger has a fairly significant improvement in low-end but most of the boost still requires >6200 rpm. You will spend > 10 K to do it right. If you are a track or autoX guy, it might be worth it. Otherwise, most of that extra hp is dormant driving around town
(except for bragging rights). The NSX, on the other hand has more low-end grunt and exotic appeal. I applaud your good taste either way.

I don't agree with your post above. I had a MY 2000 S2000 with a Comptech supercharger. It only cost me $5000 installed and required no additonal modifications. So I don't know where your figure of $10k comes from unless he wants a spare kit. It also adds little, if anything to low end. All hp and tq benefits are seen above 6000 rpm. I do agree that he/she has good taste though.

 

[Newman]

I'm not interested in buying an NSX to put me in a "different class". I don't need a certain nameplate on my car to feel/look better. I would never be that insecure about myself. I'm looking in to the NSX for the same reasons I bought the S. It's a special automobile. It should be fun to drive (not having driven one yet). It's rare, etc... If a certain amount of class comes along with it, great. I guess that's a bonus.

Just to chime in, and just like everyone else said, test drive a NSX . Even if you don't care about the "different class" and just want a good driving car, which is what I was looking for, here are a couple of things that made me want a NSX over a S2000. My co-worker has a S2000 so I can drive it whenever I want to and don't get me wrong, it's fun and cool to drive around in with the top down. But I've never really been a fan of convertables, but that's neither here nor there.

Some more non-biased things that I was more intersted in was comfort and ride quality. I'm a bigger guy and I fit comfortably in a NSX but was very tight (still can manage) in the S2000. I can see on long drives (over a couple of hours behind the wheel), the S2000 would be too cramped where as in the NSX I still have room to move the seat back further. I didn't care for the massive blind spot with the top up on the S2000, and even though there is one on the NSX, it's easier for me to look out of the back window and to see what's in my blind spot while driving. Also, the trunk of a S2000 can barely fit a birthday cake in it, while a NSX trunk can barely fit my big suitcase with no room to spare . Still, trunk size goes to the NSX. Stereo system and how it sounds in the car with what's available, that went to the NSX. Also the ride quality..... I like the feel of being lower to the ground while driving on the freeway where as (even though it was cool) driving with the top down on the freeway didn't give me that same "true sports car" feel. Power-wise, I like the NSX's torque (both of our cars have relatively the same minor mods), but I will say that the S2000 is easier to handle when it's wet and when the tail wants to swing out (pretty much most high powered mid-engine RWD cars are asking for trouble when the tail end swings out, especially with TCS disconnected and driving in the rain ).

Again, these were the main things I was checking for when I was looking at both cars. Doesn't mean that you'll have the same views but it at least gives you some more ideas of what to consider.

 

[Simons2k]

I just went and test drove my first NSX. Wow! I wasn't dissappointed at all! It was actually a '93 NSX-R which I assume is a bit faster than a regular NSX. It was too modded up for me from wheels, intake, exhaust heel/toe racing pedals, VAFC. This car definitely seen some track time.

Anyhow, it was a joy to drive. I'm going to look at a few more next couple of days.

I'm sold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Simons2k]

Go for the NSX!

Of course there are negative things about owning an NSX but you should drive one first and see which package fits you best...


Tell us when you will test drive the NSX!

What negatives are you referring to?

 

[RyRy210]

I just went and test drove my first NSX. Wow! I wasn't dissappointed at all! It was actually a '93 NSX-R which I assume is a bit faster than a regular NSX. It was too modded up for me from wheels, intake, exhaust heel/toe racing pedals, VAFC. This car definitely seen some track time.

Anyhow, it was a joy to drive. I'm going to look at a few more next couple of days.

I'm sold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

'93 NSX-R? Got pics? If the steering wheel ain't on the right hand side, its not an R.

 

[Simons2k]

'93 NSX-R? Got pics? If the steering wheel ain't on the right hand side, its not an R.

Really? Didn't know that. It's advertised as an R. I noticed the door handles say "NSX-R". Maybe it was just a JDM piece.

I must say the exhaust sounded nice. It was a Mugen, I think.

 

[RyRy210]

Really? Didn't know that. It's advertised as an R. I noticed the door handles say "NSX-R". Maybe it was just a JDM piece.

I must say the exhaust sounded nice. It was a Mugen, I think.

Can be bought for $45 each. It's good that you are on this forum, there are alot of NSXs that are not as advertised.

Mugen does not make an exhaust for the NSX. Take some pics of it and tell us the vin, and someone will be able to disect it for you piece by piece.

Here is some good info:

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/General/modelinfo/modelinfo.htm

 

[Simons2k]

Thanks! The FAQ section is a good resource.

 

[effer]

What negatives are you referring to?

Some negative points are related to its daily driving use and some others are inherent of simply owning such a car.

Are you going to use it as your daily driver or for weekend/occasional spirited drives?

An NSX is a very attractive car, so there will be a lot of people hanging around it when parked.

This is not a car you let alone like any non exotic.

Do you live/work in a safe area?



You will have to change rear tires almost every 5k to 8k miles ( every oil change!!! ) if you want to stay with OEM and keep the car's great and precise handling. Do the math!

If you don't turn a lot with your car your front tires will wear quicker from the inside. This car as an amazing suspension, set for turning but you will be astonished how stable this car is when driving it quick and hard on bumpy roads: so stable even in the 120-140 mph range!

If you don't drive it hard ( I mean hard braking ) there is chance your ALB system will show some problems ( read in the FAQ ) that could be easily fixed when you know how to take care of it. In fact you will have to frequently do some hard braking to maintain the ALB working properly.

You will have to be very careful while driving in traffic because people who are following you will tend to keep up with you and will unconsciously try to brake as late as you will do and usually, they can't. It will be important to always check in your rear mirror to see what happens behind you.

A young guy almost hit my rear bumper too excited he was to come close to me at a red light...


Also since this car is very low ( about 46 inches! ), some drivers won't see you.

A taxi driver almost hit me on the side while changing lane. He never saw me!?! I had the chance to be able to mash the pedal and escape in front of him! It was funny after...

You will have to enter steep driveways with an angle because of lowereness of the car ( only 5,4 inches high! ).


But honestly, this the best and most enjoyable car I ever drove and overall you will realize that this car will change positively your life...

as I like it as it is, I will never try to save money on rear tires!


So what about the engine sound? Music isn't it? What about hearing it from the back?

Good luck! And I hope you will find a nice one soon!

Regards,

effer