Burned by Prime member on Ebay JH4NA1158MT001645

[rover1]

Burned by Prime member on Ebay

I've been reading all your warnings about buying a NSX on Ebay but I thought I'd be safe buying from a Prime member....Not the case.

I awaited anxiously for the "no reserve" auction to end on a 1991 NSX with 12,XXX miles on it only to have someone else outbid me with 4 minutes left. OK, that happens sometimes and it pays to be the last bidder (I was out of town so I had to bid early with a proxy bid). But on further investigation and looking at the feedback for the winning bidder, I found out that every feedback was left by the person who was selling the NSX--skyhawk_c-172, AKA Alan M on NSX Prime. Additionally, if you look at the feedback for skyhawk, there is a previous one written by the winning bidder and it is obvious that they were written by the same person.

Here's a little background: Alan M. bought the NSX on Ebay in April (that's in his feedback too) and put it up for auction in June. He even used the exact same write-up as the previous seller (even mentioning the seat covers that came with the car....the same ones he had already sold on the website a few weeks earlier). As the auction approached the closing date, the price had still not yet reached the price he paid for the car in April...time to become creative and weasel out of the sale.

Back to the present--Alan M. just updated his ad on the Prime marketplace today noting that the car comes with a car cover and a rear deck cover. Here's the link to the auction in which he "sold" the car a couple weeks ago: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2482855975&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT

The NSX Prime website has taught me a great deal about the car and I'll continue to read it religiously after I get my NSX. However, I was beginning to believe that there was a code of ethics that the members adhered to and I felt more comfortable buying from a member. Guess I need to keep my guard up regardless of the seller.

 

[NoggZ]

Sorry to hear about your dissapointment.


There are 2 sides to every story, so it will be interesting to hear what AlanM has to say.

 

[nsxtasy]

I was beginning to believe that there was a code of ethics that the members adhered to and I felt more comfortable buying from a member. Guess I need to keep my guard up regardless of the seller.

Most of the members here are

. You can tell a lot about someone by reading what they write. Many are great people, in all kinds of ways - everything from their technical knowledge, to their sense of humor, to - yes - their integrity. I would trust some of the members here with my life.

However, you can have a few bad apples anywhere, and NSXprime is no exception. Especially since anyone can join, and I don't think anyone gets kicked out for something bad done elsewhere.

Incidentally, I would not call what happened to you being "burned". You didn't buy a bad (i.e. poorly-described or otherwise fraudulent) car for sale from this member. Based on your description, he apparently did some "bid rigging" to keep from selling the car at a price he considered too low, in a no-reserve auction. While that is unethical, I'm not sure I would consider your inability to buy the car "getting burned". After all, you are not out any money. Let's put it this way - if you think he is so unethical that he used this tactic to keep from selling you the car, what makes you think that he is so ethical in describing the car that his description is accurate and a complete disclosure? Are you really sure you want to buy a car from him?

Furthermore, don't you wonder why he is selling a car after two months? I'll give you a hint about why. I recently bought an auto part on eBay because I believed the description that accompanied the auction to be accurate. When I received it, it turned out to be not as described, and in worse condition than the part I was replacing. I turned around and re-sold it on eBay at a loss a short time later. Maybe he's doing the same thing. Except that when I re-sold it, I did so with a revised description that fully disclosed the faults I found with the part, which might or might not be the case here.

If I were in your position, I would be glad that I avoided what sounds like it might have been a bad deal.

 

[rover1]

You're right--Things could've been much worse if I had actually put out $30K+ to buy the car and found out it was a lemon. I just want everyone to know what they could be getting into if they are considering his car posted in the market area.

I certainly don't think his actions are representative of all Prime Members but have realized that the "Prime Member" status does not necessarily carry any weight when it comes to trusting a seller.

 

[jlindy]

I understand that you would be disappointed because you were excited to get a NSX, but nothing worth creating a thread and attempting to trash someone. You don't know the situation, so why attack someone publicly to try to destroy their character or question their ethics. I honestly don't think that he did anything wrong if that was indeed the case. Maybe he found a buyer himself that was willing to pay more than the bid so he decided to sell it to them. The auction wasn't over, there was no contract, he hasn't accepted any deposit, so why are you complaining? Do you mean to tell me that if you had something up for sale in ebay, but found an offer to sell it yourself for 50% more than the highest bid, you wouldn't end the auction? The seller reserves the right to end an auction at any time and that's part of the ebay game right or wrong. Your efforts could be better spent in actually finding a car and not dwelling on what's done, but just my $0.02.

 

[j14nsx]

People do this all the time on eBay. it saves paying the charges associated with a high start price or reserve. If the item fails to make what they want, they bid themselves, or get a friend to win the auction for them.

 

[Newman]

People do this all the time on eBay. it saves paying the charges associated with a high start price or reserve. If the item fails to make what they want, they bid themselves, or get a friend to win the auction for them.

Correct. Or even in the last 10 seconds, if they don't like what their item(s) prices are at, then they will simply just end the auction with a reason like "This item is no longer available" and be done as simple as that. Sure it sucks when you're the one trying to bid but also realize that somebody doesn't want to lose out on a lot of money on an item that they're selling. But if they are doing it just to get a few more bucks out of the buyer and boost the price up, or really don't want to sell their item, I'd say just move onto another auction/car as it may not be worth it in the long run.

 

[rover1]

Maybe he found a buyer himself that was willing to pay more than the bid so he decided to sell it to them.

I understand how the EBay process works. One of my points is that he has re-listed his car for sale on this website. And I highly doubt that the winner of the auction backed out as I contend that the winner/seller are the same person.

 

[NeoNSX]

<B>NoggZ</B> : I thought the saying was there are always three sides to every story: two stories and the truth.

 

[jlindy]

Maybe he found a buyer himself that was willing to pay more than the bid so he decided to sell it to them.

I understand how the EBay process works. One of my points is that he has re-listed his car for sale on this website. And I highly doubt that the winner of the auction backed out as I contend that the winner/seller are the same person.

Again, I can see how that is frustrating, but from the seller's point of view. No reserve auctions get 3-5 times the attention that reserve auctions get. Any seller has the right to close an auction at any time for any reason before it ends even if it is due to price. While a little sneaky, it's not illegal. Instead of ending the auction, it looks like the seller just made sure he won the auction himself. This is more honorable than just ending it early because he will have to pay the ebay fees based on the percentage of the selling price. Don't worry, keep looking and you will find one soon.

 

[thedon67]

I strongly disagree with Jlindy on this one.

from eBay...
"Reasons for ending listings early include:
The item is no longer available for sale.
There was an error in the starting price or reserve amount.
There was an error in the listing.
The item was lost or broken.

Note: Sellers are not permitted to cancel bids and end listings early in order to avoid selling an item that did not meet the desired sale price. This is considered to be reserve fee circumvention. Although there are legitimate reasons for ending a listing early, abuse of this option will be investigated."

What this guy has done is called Shill Bidding and Reserve Fee Avoidance and is not permitted.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-reserve.html

Very unethical. That is why there are reserve auctions. If he really did this, I hope you report him to eBay.

 

[rover1]

Just wanted to close out the issue. I noticed that both skyhawk (Alan M.) and luckyducky (auction winner) are no longer registered Ebay users and his ad has been removed from Ebay. The car is still for sale on the Prime website though--might be a good car but be cautious.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

When I first saw Alan M show up here on prime, I could tell by the posts, that he was shady (like Ken said about post content) in fact, in one thread I personally asked if he was "THE" infamous ALLAN from f-chat (ex-NSXer)!!! Because he sounded like him.

I personally will never purchase something over a grand from ebay without seeing it in person. Especially a car. A couple hundred in a flight is worth it for an inspection to buy a 30+ k car. Then if it is good, skip the ebay thing, and buy it on the spot.

 

[jlindy]

I strongly disagree with Jlindy on this one.

from eBay...
"Reasons for ending listings early include:
The item is no longer available for sale.
There was an error in the starting price or reserve amount.
There was an error in the listing.
The item was lost or broken.

Note: Sellers are not permitted to cancel bids and end listings early in order to avoid selling an item that did not meet the desired sale price. This is considered to be reserve fee circumvention. Although there are legitimate reasons for ending a listing early, abuse of this option will be investigated."

What this guy has done is called Shill Bidding and Reserve Fee Avoidance and is not permitted.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-reserve.html

Very unethical. That is why there are reserve auctions. If he really did this, I hope you report him to eBay.

Not that I am only this guy's side at all for his ebay practices, but what you are describing has nothing to do with what he did in my opinion. He did not end an auction early, but let it go to completion and paid the fees based on percentages of the sale. The only difference is that the seller won the auction. What does ebay care if they do that because they aren't shirking on any fees. Besides, they will obviously list it again which means more fees for ebay.

I do agree with you that sellers should not end an auction early because it doesn't meet their desired price, but it still happens every day. If ebay cracks down on that one great, but I can't sit here and say that it doesn't happen.

 

[Alan M.]

rover1...don't you have anything better to do with your time?

 

[nsxtasy]

rover1...don't you have anything better to do with your time?

Gee, if someone claimed that I did something wrong, and it weren't true, I would explain why it wasn't true. Insulting him like this instead makes me tend to believe that everything rover1 said is absolutely true.

What about it, Alan? Is he right? And if not, can you explain what actually happened?

 

[Alan M.]

Question...What is a 91 NSX Blk/ivory w/12,125 mi. in near perfect condition worth?

 

[nsxtasy]

Question...What is a 91 NSX Blk/ivory w/12,125 mi. in near perfect condition worth?

That depends on whether it is really in "near perfect" condition or not. For example, have the timing belt and water pump been replaced, or does it have a 13 year old timing belt in it? Have the fluids (e.g. brake fluid, transmission fluid) been changed at least once every two years?

Also - are you asking this question because you are looking for a reason to weasel out of the commitment you made when you posted it for sale on eBay? If you didn't want to sell it below a certain price, you should have either used that price for a reserve, or used it for an opening bid. The fact that you didn't, means that you agreed to sell it for whatever the highest bid was, no matter what that dollar figure turned out to be.

Sounds like rover1 was right!

 

[Alan M.]

Remember those two guys (snipers) in DC who caused such a ruckus terrorising an entire city?

do you remember their names?

 

[RyRy210]

Remember those two guys (snipers) in DC who caused such a ruckus terrorising an entire city?

do you remember their names?

Muhammad and Malvo

What is your point

 

[RyRy210]

Question...What is a 91 NSX Blk/ivory w/12,125 mi. in near perfect condition worth?

It's worth $32,251, the price that rover1 should have paid as the high bidder before you stepped in with your bogus bid with another account.

 

[Alan M.]

How many people do you think live in the DC area?

 

[nsxtasy]

Sounds like someone is tossing out incomprehensible distractions because he doesn't like answering a question honestly:

What about it, Alan? Is he right?

Which may come as no surprise...

 

[Alan M.]

nsxtasy...Do you have some spare time on your hands or...?

What is the deal with your profile...it says you have 13,895 posts???

13,895 (8.54 posts per day)

 

[steveny]

If you did in fact, and I believe you did, outbid the highest bidder with another account than you have broken ebay's rules and have no scruples IMO. AN AUCTION IS AN AUCTION. If you want a certain price for the car then put it up for sale not for auction. I believe you started the auction off with no reserve to save money on listing fees and when you did not get what you wanted you reneged. Sad truly sad.
Everything comes back around to those who operate in this manner.