Brembo F-50/Lotus caliper BBK, $4000 complete

[titaniumdave]

...a quick follow up.

I built an extra set of hats and bracket for this set up, Prime member was interested in just these parts, ended up not wanting them so I can set up one more person at this price. I am waiting for the next shipment of rotors, but they should be complete soon.

PM if interested!

Wheels:
On paper the Volk RE-30 wheels will fit with out spacers! I am trying to get a sample to confirm it. My Tecno's require 5 mm spacers to clear on the front, plenty of room on the rears, FYI.

 

[DPG]

Are the F-50 Calipers bigger than the Stoptech ST-40 calipers?

 

[titaniumdave]

Are the F-50 Calipers bigger than the Stoptech ST-40 calipers?

I don't know, F-50 caliper requires 68 mm of clearance outboard of the rotor surface, they have 44, and 40 mm pistons. This equals a wheel which has 52 mm clear under the spokes when measured from the hub mounting face on the back side of the wheel to the back side of the spoke.

 

[stuntman]

Are the F-50 Calipers bigger than the Stoptech ST-40 calipers?

Isn't the StopTech ST-40 caliper is the same as a Brembo or Porsche Big Red?

The ST-40 is a completely new caliper designed specifically to perform on the street and track. The Patented "Bolt-in" Bridge is unique to our design, making the ST-40 two times stiffer than the competition. The ST-40 offers 8 different piston diameters to choose from, so the caliper can be made to specifically balance any application. The ST-40 can be made to fit from 28 to 35mm thick rotors and 328 to 380mm rotor diameters. Dust boots are standard on all street calipers, and commonly available pad wear sensors can be used. Though the ST-40 will mount in the same place as a Brembo F-40 or F-50 caliper and uses common pistons and seals, it is a superior caliper in terms of stiffness, versatility and price. Porsche Big Red calipers have a taller pad and require a larger rotor annulus (heavier rotor). While this taller pad sometimes lasts longer, for a given rotor and piston size the brake torque is less.


-From Stoptech's website. Personally i've driven on both the ST40 and the F50. Both are EXCELLENT calipers and will live up to almost everyone's standards. I would still rate both of them at the same level.

 

[titaniumdave]

Isn't the StopTech ST-40 caliper is the same as a Brembo or Porsche Big Red?

The ST-40 is a completely new caliper designed specifically to perform on the street and track. The Patented "Bolt-in" Bridge is unique to our design, making the ST-40 two times stiffer than the competition. The ST-40 offers 8 different piston diameters to choose from, so the caliper can be made to specifically balance any application. The ST-40 can be made to fit from 28 to 35mm thick rotors and 328 to 380mm rotor diameters. Dust boots are standard on all street calipers, and commonly available pad wear sensors can be used. Though the ST-40 will mount in the same place as a Brembo F-40 or F-50 caliper and uses common pistons and seals, it is a superior caliper in terms of stiffness, versatility and price. Porsche Big Red calipers have a taller pad and require a larger rotor annulus (heavier rotor). While this taller pad sometimes lasts longer, for a given rotor and piston size the brake torque is less.


-From Stoptech's website. Personally i've driven on both the ST40 and the F50. Both are EXCELLENT calipers and will live up to almost everyone's standards. I would still rate both of them at the same level.

Thanks for the info Billy!

 

[stuntman]

Thanks for the info Billy!

NP, again. Both are more than adequate for pretty much anything you're going to throw at it. Dave's kit is going to be used on Factor X's unlimited car thats going to have 600whp+ and tires wider than a Z06. -I don't see any application thats going to be tougher on Dave's kit than that.

Well, I decided to give a 'preview' of Dave's brake kit installed on the FX Unlimited car.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Are the F-50 Calipers bigger than the Stoptech ST-40 calipers?

I've held both. Unless you are the obsessive type.. they are close enough for practical purposes, I suppose with an edge to the Brembo as it is fatter and slightly heavier.

- Per Stoptech's web site the FMSI number for the ST-40 pad is D372, with a width of 132.0mm, a height of 71mm. F-50 pads are basically the same size, at 131.6mm X 67mm depending on manufacturer.

Isn't the StopTech ST-40 caliper is the same as a Brembo or Porsche Big Red?

The ST-40 is a completely new caliper designed specifically to perform on the street and track. The Patented "Bolt-in" Bridge is unique to our design, making the ST-40 two times stiffer than the competition. The ST-40 offers 8 different piston diameters to choose from, so the caliper can be made to specifically balance any application. The ST-40 can be made to fit from 28 to 35mm thick rotors and 328 to 380mm rotor diameters. Dust boots are standard on all street calipers, and commonly available pad wear sensors can be used. Though the ST-40 will mount in the same place as a Brembo F-40 or F-50 caliper and uses common pistons and seals, it is a superior caliper in terms of stiffness, versatility and price. Porsche Big Red calipers have a taller pad and require a larger rotor annulus (heavier rotor). While this taller pad sometimes lasts longer, for a given rotor and piston size the brake torque is less.


-From Stoptech's website. Personally i've driven on both the ST40 and the F50. Both are EXCELLENT calipers and will live up to almost everyone's standards. I would still rate both of them at the same level.

I would have to agree here. If this thread is going to become a comparison between brake components from Stoptech, and from Brembo.. then grab the water and be prepared to find yourself in the middle of a fire fight. :biggrin:

I think Stoptech is a great company, but they also go head to head with Brembo everyday... and there are a lot of nasty Brembo vs. Stoptech threads if you do a search (most of which of course ridiculous- like comparing stock STI calipers to BBK X with different pads or whatever...)

So far as the excerpt above from Stoptech's FAQ, let's just say that I don't believe everything I read. :wink:

Stoptech said at one point that they "buy castings made to there specification from a QS-9000 registered supplier in Taiwan." before "We do all critical finish machining, assembly and testing at our facility in Torrance, CA."

Whatever the case may be... my take is that the bottom line is that both the F-50 and the ST-40 are two piece calipers, not single piece billet like the higher end race stuff. I haven't toured their facilities or can lay claim to seeing balance sheets... but I would speculate that being an OE supplier obviously Brembo probably has the upper hand on Q/A given unlimited resources.

If someone really want's to spend the big bucks, Dave can arrange that.

I spoke with Mike at Brembo's NC racing division to get the flip side and found out some interesting information I hadn't thought of.

You can conduct rigidity tests at ambient, and even put in stiffer bolts to skew the test results... but ultimately now matter what the latest catch term is (squeeze forged, pressure cast, yadda...) it all came from hot molten metal.

You get a two piece caliper hot- really hot... and given adequate line pressure it will deform at the weakest point. To an extent, he went so far as to say that in some cases stiffer along certain axis isn't always better. This is likely why the software prototyping portion of the engineering is so critical (there was a past episode of 'How It's Made' that showed OEM brake engineering in detail)

The bottom line, is that Mike said he would be amazed that in an NSX.... even for a 4 hour endurance race on DOT track tires... with loads of downforce... at 2600lbs... and a mad crazy JDM kamikaze driver dive bombing everyone.... if you could quantifiable say dropping the money for the race caliper is really justifiable by a significant percentage that would offset the huge cost.

For me, this is money that could be better spent on track time or tires, working on those 'other' important things.. like me :wink:

Well, I decided to give a 'preview' of Dave's brake kit installed on the FX Unlimited car.

SWEET PICS!!!

Let's see... 600hp, race prep, unlimited tires, brakes, suspension, you driving... yeah I think that should do the trick.

 

[stuntman]

I spoke with Mike at Brembo's NC racing division to get the flip side and found out some interesting information I hadn't thought of.

You can conduct rigidity tests at ambient, and even put in stiffer bolts to skew the test results... but ultimately now matter what the latest catch term is (squeeze forged, pressure cast, yadda...) it all came from hot molten metal.

You get a two piece caliper hot- really hot... and given adequate line pressure it will deform at the weakest point. To an extent, he went so far as to say that in some cases stiffer along certain axis isn't always better. This is likely why the software prototyping portion of the engineering is so critical (there was a past episode of 'How It's Made' that showed OEM brake engineering in detail)

That's all technical mumbo-jumbo. I'd prefer to trust Jimmy-bob who puts big brakes on civics out of his garage to put an OEM caliper on my car... That or trust "Frank" who dosn't tell me anything about his company's history or background...

Yea, I'd rather trust them than the leading manufacturer (and benchmark) in the brake industry.

-Mike's a great guy BTW...

The bottom line, is that Mike said he would be amazed that in an NSX.... even for a 4 hour endurance race on DOT track tires... with loads of downforce... at 2600lbs... and a mad crazy JDM kamikaze driver dive bombing everyone.... if you could quantifiable say dropping the money for the race caliper is really justifiable by a significant percentage that would offset the huge cost.

For me, this is money that could be better spent on track time or tires, working on those 'other' important things.. like me :wink:

+1.
Mike (Brembo Motorsports) dosn't even know what the 'Indy' Caliper is. "Indy" was just some random name applied to a racing caliper (still 5-10yo technology -being a 2pc caliper). The "Indy" caliper would show/perform no different to everyone but maybe 2 people on prime over the F50. And even though monoblock calipers are better, everyone but maybe 4 people on prime would benefit or notice a difference/performance advantage of a racing monoblock over the F50.

=Save the money over the "indy" kit. Heck you can buy current-motorsports 1-pc calipers for the price of the indy kit. But it's not necessary.

Let's see... 600hp, race prep, unlimited tires, brakes, suspension, you driving... yeah I think that should do the trick.

Should be fun! :wink:

 

[Turbox2]

Dave I'd love to invest in this package if it's still available...
[email protected]
916-396-4112 cell