Biden -- Wants to give away houses????

Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

bring back the 29 cent hamburgers and 39 cent cheeseburgers. better yet give me government cheese and just put me down for the 29 cent hamburgers.

how about the 20 piece McNuggets on Wed's for 3 bucks! I'm such a fat ass that i would take advantage and eat a 40 piece.
 
just my meager input...

Consider the health care issue.

Right now, the uninsured show up in the emergency room with serious health problems that could have been avoided with basic, preventative care.

I believe it would cost far less to provide a minimal level of preventative care than having these people show up in the emergency room with a serious illness. Instead, we deny them basic preventative care and wellness management, and we pay for their catastrophic illnesses and injuries.
This is where my 2-pence kicks in, as this is my livelihood and I actually know a thing or two in regards to this, as opposed to other hotly-contested matters.

A basic walk-in, non-emergency/trauma visit to a primary care practitioner is about ~$25/cash (yes, no co-payment, no insurance, no nothing) for a 15min-20min consult & general physical (excluding labs', diagnostics/imaging, etc') w/ necessary script-righting and/or referral.

The inability to pay such a pittance of compensation for professional services rendered is unfathomable, yet it's commonplace in our society.

If the gov't made it free, would people go then? No. It's already free as we speak for those eligible through medicaid and numerous other state/local heath-care service provisions. Carefree, capricious, and self-endearing individuals privy towards self-entitlement don't care to look for such offerings.

High-quality, uncompromised health-care is a privilege - not a right.

I agree, that greater/broader coverage & offerings of primary heath-care should be addressed/offered. But placing a watch-dog/regulator/socialized-infrastructure around health-care in general will greatly compromise the quality & delivery of optimal & professional services/procedures.

I've worked in the U.K. for the government's NHS (National Health Services) & trained under France's version (Médecin généraliste). I'm 99% confident that the compromises/challenges that are hallmarks of those systems would not be tolerated or found to be acceptable by the general U.S. public.

The only winners in such regulated/gov't-administered systems are the health-care trust exec's, policy administrators, contract-brokers, and so forth. The providers (namely physicians & highly-skilled tech's, specialized-nurses, professionally-trained therapists/aides) & the patients don't benefit in any tangible manner or parameter of merit.

O.k., my fingers hurt from all that jibber-jabber. I just wanted to break-it-down in layman's terms about the "universal/free-health-care" gimmick often dangled before a voting audience.

Chow/Ciao... :D
 
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Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

I caught Biden's comments regarding reducing the principal and pray that this doesn't happen.

I'm not an American and it pisses me off that this sort of damage has happened to the American economy. I mean come on mortgages for people who don't have to put any money down nor can really afford it?!?! I'll rant here a bit because I live in one of the greatest "greed" based environments in the World - DUBAI.

I believe the glass house might come crashing down...
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

I caught Biden's comments regarding reducing the principal and pray that this doesn't happen.

I'm not an American and it pisses me off that this sort of damage has happened to the American economy. I mean come on mortgages for people who don't have to put any money down nor can really afford it?!?! I'll rant here a bit because I live in one of the greatest "greed" based environments in the World - DUBAI.

I believe the glass house might come crashing down...

Imagine how us Americans feel about it?

We were all told that working hard was the keys to the kingdom. Come to find out the keys are just given away to those who just sit on their asses with their hand out.

It is a sad day to be an American. The passing of this bill proves that we are a country governed by greed and controlled by fear.

How something this big can get past the American people is truly disturbing to say the least. But i guess on the bright side, if you own a wooden arrow factory or a race track or produce films then help is on the way.:rolleyes:

IMO today we took a big step away from Capitalism and for what gain? Or should i say whose gain?:confused:
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

Even if you have no sympathy for the individual who is in over their head, you can see the merit of the idea. It is simply more efficient. That should appeal to you.

Consider the health care issue.

Right now, the uninsured show up in the emergency room with serious health problems that could have been avoided with basic, preventative care.

I believe it would cost far less to provide a minimal level of preventative care than having these people show up in the emergency room with a serious illness. Instead, we deny them basic preventative care and wellness management, and we pay for their catastrophic illnesses and injuries.

We need to start addressing social problems on the front end, not on the back end. Do you want to build prisons or do you want to build better lives?

Take abortion. Instead of trying to restrict the rights of women to have abortions, we should be reducing unwanted pregnancy, which is the real problem. Sex education and contraception to help prevent unwanted pregnancy and prenatal and early childhood care, daycare, etc., to prevent people from terminating a pregnancy because they can't afford to raise a child. Do those things and abortion will drop dramatically without restricting anyone's choice in the matter.

There are some things that are better left to the government.

Social services are the prime example. The goal of a child welfare agency should be to maximize child welfare, not maximize profit.

Profit is amoral. It is neither good nor bad, in and of itself.

We have seen what happens when social services are privatized. Profit becomes the primary goal, not the services themselves. We should measure the success of a prison by the rehabilitiation of its prisoners, not in the efficiency of its finances.

This does not mean that social services should simply run amuck, but the primary goal must remain the service, not profit.

Reducing the loan amounts on mortgages? Sure, it helps the poor homebuyer who bought more house than he could afford. What's the harm in that, you ask? Well it punishes the lender who is forced to accept less than it contracted for. Do you think the lender is just gonna suck it up and say, "oh well, c'est la vie"? No, it's going to pass on the losses to the rest of the people in the system - those who are responsible and actually pay for what they get. Got a 401k? Think it won't be affected by financial institutions being extorted?

You realize the government is the entity that pressured and encouraged the mortgage lenders to make bad loans to people (mostly minorities) who realistically couldn't afford them? Groups like ACORN (coached by community organizers, i.e., Obama) was right there to help shame bank presidents into lending to those minorities, and in return they made contributions to the congress members who pushed for those policies. Now, it's those same congress members who are passing on the losses to American taxpayers. Long story short - We got screwed.

Lack of health care preventative maintenance leads to catastrophic illness? The health problems facing Americans have to do with lifestyle choices, not lack of adequate medical care. This day and age, people don't need a doctor visit to tell them they shouldn't smoke, shouldn't over eat junk food, or should exercise regularly. Yet people ignore those warnings anyway.

I agree there are latent diseases that can be caught early on with "preventative maintenance" in the way you suggest (checkups), but what percentage of the population is that? And as pointed out by (I assume) a physician here, the cost of a checkup is not astronomical. Forego a couple cases of Budweiser and pay to see a doctor instead once a year.

Abortion? I think that the absence of readily available abortions would act as a deterrent to unwanted pregnancy just as much as sex educ., etc. Sure, that would restrict a woman's "right" to choose to kill her own baby. And we know how burdensome those pesky babies can be. If unwanted pregnant mothers have the "right" to terminate their pregnancy simply because they can't afford to support the baby, then by that reasoning, adults should be allowed to knock off their elderly parents when they get sick and start becoming a financial burden on their kids. Why is one absurd and not the other? It's ending a life on purpose.

There are some things the government should do, but there are MORE things that it should stay the hell out of.
 
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Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

Housing values have to come down, or the supply of homes have to go down. If neither of those occur, the artificial cost of housing above what the natural cost would be would have to be supported by tax dollars. Overall, a massive distortion would take place as people pay higher taxes and a higher portion of their income for housing then is naturally determined by market forces. There is 3-9 trillion in home prices that need to be removed to reach the natural levels to put our savings rate, income, and housing costs in to equilibrium. Anything designed to stop that will fail or be a proportionally large [larger if the payments are indirect, as in collected as taxes, organized, distributed, etc.] cost to the public.

I want nothing more then the functioning of the credit markets. Anything to prop up the housing market will probably end up giving us two "lost decades" that any japanese person can educate you on.
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

I think we all need to remove california from the union,friggen 500-800$ /sq-ft for a starter home:rolleyes:Its still going on!!I still see adds on TV for ditech.com:rolleyes: Your house is you new credit card:rolleyes: No government is going to stop that cancer, we have to rewrite the rules on safe lending.And start to live within our means.
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

My wife and I nearly choked when we heard Biden say that he thought the mortgage principal should be allowed to be adjusted.

Isn't it enough just to give the person MORE time to pay up?

It's amazing how cavalier Joe Biden is with OUR money when he gives to the poor. And have you noticed how little he gives to charity?

Normally I wouldn't give a hoot how much someone gives to charity but when they start telling, no FORCING is the right word, me how much I should give...

Hey Joe old buddy, screw u.

-J
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

new life plan:

move somewhere near an accorn facility, get them to shame the bank president in giving me 10 million dollars to buy houses, shame the bank president again into refinancing those houses for 2x thier worth, then work to get obama/biden elected, get the 20 million dollars of debt adjusted to 20 dollars.


i need to pack my bags, SUCKERS!!
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

This is what's going on in S. Cal.

I own a 1 bedroom condo, at the height of its value, the same unit was sold for $350k.

I bought my for $300k

Last week, I checked realtors.com and found two units were listed for $195k. The property dropped about 40% in value in one year.

I own $300k.

When my 2 years fix rate ended, I got a call from my mortgage company telling me that they will lock my rate in for a very small fee and the process is no more than signing some documents through fax. I called back a day later, they told me I have missed the opportunity and the window was very short. They ask me to refinance through them, after running numbers over phone, I told them no because they wanted $12k in fees.

A month later, I tried to refinance through my friend, the property was praised for $330k, after signing two loan docs, neither funded.

Between my first and second mortgage under ARM, with association and property tax, my bill is $3200, for a one bedroom condo. Let me remind you that the ARM is actually on the low side, at the height, I was paying way more than $3200.00 I have been working with my first mortgage company for loan modification, it's been over 10 months, every time I call them, they told me they are backed up, and since I have paid all my payment less than 30 days late, they will "get to it when they get to it."

A month ago, I hired a friend who does loan modification to work with both of my loan companies. After contact the mortgage companies, he received the same run around I got.

Last week, they called me for my september payment, I told the the operator that they have failed to help me, therefore, I will stop all payment activities until they "notice" me. I told her that not only they give me the run around, they never tried to help me by doing some simple stuff such as removing the late charges or over the phone payment fees.

So I gave the "debt collector" the information of loan mods company and told them once you get in touch with my guy, you also need to get in touch with my second mortgage company by figuring how to lower my payment, if not, I will foreclose the property. If we do come to an agreement, the mortgage company are required to remove any late payments notice on my credit report, because if they don't, I will not be able to get a new lease for my retail shop in three years, and this cycle will start all over again. I also told her if her company didn't play the stupid game in the beginning locking my rate instead of tried to get another $12 grand from me to refi, I would not be in this situation and so are others.

The lady on the phone was silent for a very long time, and she said to me, I can't help you at moment, hope you get a call from our resolution team soon. I thank her for her time and now the waiting game.

Even though I intend to keep my condo, I have decided if I don't issue any tactical move, they will continue to ignore the people who can actually afford the payments but are barely staying above water.

The situation is rather bad because after talking to some of my neighbors, I realized they are in the same situation. The guy who bought the unit next to my for $350k, he is upside down $70k even after putting down 20%. Couple more people decided that it is just not worth keeping the property since they can literrally rent a unit cross the street for about $1200 a month, without having to deal with repair, association, property tax and $2500 per month in payment.

If Biden/Obama decide to force the company to lower the balance, it is a very attractive message and will get voters, but that is not the way to fix the problem. It will further escalate the drop in value.

The key is to find a way to get the real estate market back on track. One way is to offer people quick loan mod before they are getting into problems. The economy is slow, income level will drop also, no more over time, retail business dies, etc.

From talking to my neighbors, I know for fact that people are ditching their properties not because they can't afford, because it's not worth it.
 
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Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

You bought your condo with an ARM. What did you think was going to happen?
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

Did anyone else have their heart skip a beat last night when Biden/Obama said he want to allow people who don't pay their bills to have the principle on their mortgage reduced!?!!??!?!?!??! WTF is that. That is a MAJOR deal breaker. I mean seriously, how much more communist can you get?

"BIDEN SAID "We should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to readjust, not just the interest rate you are paying on your mortgage to be able to stay in your home, but in -- be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that that you owe. That would keep people in their homes"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics...age=1

I was on the fence, but as someone who works hard to pay down my average house every month, the thought of these guys bumping off $100,000 or so from some slacker using MY tax money infuriates me.

What do youguys think?


I think if they don't do it were going into a deep depression.
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

My brother bought a house on the beach in St. Pete Beach, FL for $500k four years ago. Then the house appraised at $900k and the dumbshit Re-Finances for $900k and takes $300k out to buy a big boat, Mercedes and Harley, etc. So now that the value is back down to $600k, he owes $900k for a $600k house. When, not if, he files for BK should the BK judge be allowed to drop the principal back down to $600k? No! That's what my Mom is for - a check to bail my dumb ass brother out every time he comes up short.

So let's say that the judge does knock it down to $600k. You're right the mortgage company gets screwed. So they take this mortgage and package it with all their other toxic loans and dump it off to the Treasury Dept. So if you're down in St Pete, feel free to stop by my brothers and make yourself at home because you are going to be paying for his house.

Here's the thing that goes with my above post. I know so many people who are in the same position and are getting ready to walk. I am not talking about 2 or 3 people I am talking about 8 out of 10 people I know. The other 2 out of ten, well they have the HELOC check ready to write and do the same thing. I can tell you this, it's starting to scare me and I am a upbeat person you doesn't startle easy.

I think they have to knock these loans down to what the house's are worth or people will walk. I think if they do knock the loans down other people are going to be pissed.

I watched the VP debate and Biden did say he was going to reduce the principle as well as the interest. They are either going to have to do that or set up a debtors prison like someone said on another thread.

So guys of Prime who are so pissed off about people getting handouts. Welcome to my world. Welcome to what I see everyday. Welcome to paying for other people who not only made bad decisions but will make them again and again. Some of the guys on this thread sound like me. I think it's funny that you didn't understand until it's about to affect you!
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

Housing values have to come down, or the supply of homes have to go down. If neither of those occur, the artificial cost of housing above what the natural cost would be would have to be supported by tax dollars. Overall, a massive distortion would take place as people pay higher taxes and a higher portion of their income for housing then is naturally determined by market forces. There is 3-9 trillion in home prices that need to be removed to reach the natural levels to put our savings rate, income, and housing costs in to equilibrium. Anything designed to stop that will fail or be a proportionally large [larger if the payments are indirect, as in collected as taxes, organized, distributed, etc.] cost to the public.

I want nothing more then the functioning of the credit markets. Anything to prop up the housing market will probably end up giving us two "lost decades" that any japanese person can educate you on.


Steve,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you agree with Biden on this. Steveny was quite clear that he agrees with Biden. I do too. I have a friend who specializes in hard money lending. According to him, on houses near foreclosure with multiple notes,the first note holder is actually offering the second (and sometimes third) $1000 to simply walk away. And the second note holders are accepting it. My point is it is happening already and much more of this is coming. Both you and steveny have a lot more financial knowledge (as per both your discussions on the bailout thread) than me and I appreciate your honest, not knee-jerk anti-Biden, response.

Regards,

Danny
 
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Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

It sounds like you have an objection to the notion of bankruptcy in and of itself.

If you are going to allow bankruptcy, you need to allow for the flexibility to make the best decisions going forward.

Reducing principal makes sense if it prevents a foreclosure that would result in a greater loss of value. It is not about rewarding foolish financial decisions.

That is spot on.

The banks loaned out more then they should have. They banks reduce the loan they make out way better than they will if they foreclose.

Loan 300k foreclose they get 100k adjust 100k they get 200k. What no one here is mentioned yet is if the loans are adjusted and the property does not go one the market it won't bring down the value of the whole neighborhood.


EDIT.. What's really is the difference of a principle reduction and taking a house back and selling it at a reduced price? Whats the difference?
 
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Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

What about the auction sales,that nets the bank something and reduces the inventory,Those forclosed upon neiborhoods need to be lived in by families who need the home,and can afford it at the right price.My Ideas include reducing the number of pure re investors in certain markets ie flippers,more transparency in lending and tighter financial scrutiny of mortgage applicants.
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

The unfortunate part here is that many people in the U.S. have lived beyond their means and now will pay for it. Its shocking how many examples are out there on various forums..

Let's say I have access to money that can be used for buying a home.

Would you purchase a home in the U.S. as an investment and if so, what are the areas you'd buy in?

Would it be advisable to purchase a home in a newer community to rent out?

What cities would you do this in?
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

Hate the thought that this actually makes sense. As I undertstand it:

800,000 home with 700,000 note, now worth 500,000

Option 1) Allow foreclosure and try to sell house for 500,000 in this paranoid, credit-tight environment. Net loss is 200,000 (likely more as it won't sell for 500,000), additional realtor fees, another foreclosure listing, displaced family.

Option 2) Write down loan to 500,000. Foreclosure potentially avoided (IF the owner can now make the new monthly payment). Net loss 200,000.

Option 3) Extend loan period. While this may decrease monthly payments to a manageable amount, the owner is further in debt due to increased accumulated interest on a property they are already upside down on. Temptation to walk is very very high (as Vance noted above). See option#1.

Like I said above, I don't like it one bit, but I agree with the reasoning whether Biden, or McCain said it.

Regards,

Danny

Danny
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

Imagine how us Americans feel about it?

We were all told that working hard was the keys to the kingdom. Come to find out the keys are just given away to those who just sit on their asses with their hand out.

It is a sad day to be an American. The passing of this bill proves that we are a country governed by greed and controlled by fear.

How something this big can get past the American people is truly disturbing to say the least. But i guess on the bright side, if you own a wooden arrow factory or a race track or produce films then help is on the way.:rolleyes:

IMO today we took a big step away from Capitalism and for what gain? Or should i say whose gain?:confused:


I wonder who owns that wooden arrow factory? hmmmm.

The way this got past the American people is we haven't had a say in a damn thing in years. We could have stopped this. Hell a lot of us saw it coming, we all talked about it. What could anyone have done about it? Maybe all the people who make their payments on time ban together and stop making payments when the banks started to loan to sub-prime? I bet it could have been done through the use of the internet the people could have been gathered. I am sure the ones who started it would be in jail for treason and the whole mess would have never happened so they wouldn't be the hero they would be the villain.

I agree and think it's time the laws are changed so the country goes back to the we the people kind of country. When there were a few people here a few hundred years ago the laws worked. The laws were written for a country like that not one with 250 million people in it.

Get rid of senate and congress and have all voting by the people on the net. No one to lobby just true opinions of how the people want it.
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

I think they have to knock these loans down to what the house's are worth or people will walk. I think if they do knock the loans down other people are going to be pissed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't lowering the loans down to what the houses are worth create a chain reaction that would lower the value of every single house below that one? The houses are appraised with comps and if all the comps are now changing value overnight, what are any of them worth? Does this make sense?
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

My wife and I nearly choked when we heard Biden say that he thought the mortgage principal should be allowed to be adjusted.

Isn't it enough just to give the person MORE time to pay up?

It's amazing how cavalier Joe Biden is with OUR money when he gives to the poor. And have you noticed how little he gives to charity?

Normally I wouldn't give a hoot how much someone gives to charity but when they start telling, no FORCING is the right word, me how much I should give...

Hey Joe old buddy, screw u.

-J

I am voting for John.

That being said.

I understand your point but think about this. We aren't dealing with the poor people here we are dealing with the middle class. The scumbags who used the opportunity like a credit card they would never pay back, those houses are already back in the banks hands. Now we are talking about people with decent credit and a lot to lose by missing payments. If their credit is ruined by having the terms of the loan adjusted why wouldn't they just say screw it and throw in the towel?

There are a lot of people in the area where I live who are way over extended on HELOC's. This news has not even hit the TV yet. It's the next shoe to drop. When these people start to lose their homes it will affect entire neighborhoods. then people who were not over extended will be because of falling home prices in their areas.


So far this has been a problem that has pretty much been in the California Florida and other similar markets. I see it now starting to spread. I do business with people all over the country and they are starting to see the same thing in their area.

A cross country friend is getting ready to implode himself any day now and he is not doing it because he is in trouble he is doing it because he is pissed at see others walking away with no real penalty. We aren't talking a few hundred grand either.
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

I understand your point but think about this. We aren't dealing with the poor people here we are dealing with the middle class. The scumbags who used the opportunity like a credit card they would never pay back, those houses are already back in the banks hands. Now we are talking about people with decent credit and a lot to lose by missing payments. If their credit is ruined by having the terms of the loan adjusted why wouldn't they just say screw it and throw in the towel?

There are a lot of people in the area where I live who are way over extended on HELOC's. This news has not even hit the TV yet. It's the next shoe to drop. When these people start to lose their homes it will affect entire neighborhoods. then people who were not over extended will be because of falling home prices in their areas.


So far this has been a problem that has pretty much been in the California Florida and other similar markets. I see it now starting to spread. I do business with people all over the country and they are starting to see the same thing in their area.

A cross country friend is getting ready to implode himself any day now and he is not doing it because he is in trouble he is doing it because he is pissed at see others walking away with no real penalty. We aren't talking a few hundred grand either.


It's not just the homes either. Think about this. If the middle class who have decent credit and are about to lose their homes, in turn destroying their credit, who is left to buy things? We're already turning into cash buying.

I'm seeing it in my business starting in the past few weeks. People with slightly less than good credit and plenty of income are being denied loans for cars left and right. If we can find anyone to even consider them, they are required to put a chunk of change down. It's scary as hell, but we're not too far from putting signs out front saying "cash buyers only".
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

The key is to find a way to get the real estate market back on track. One way is to offer people quick loan mod before they are getting into problems. The economy is slow, income level will drop also, no more over time, retail business dies, etc.


That's right. Everyone I know who is in trouble is saying, "if my credit is going to be bad anyway I might as well walk away completely, whats the sense in paying more for something then it's worth when good credit isn't helping me anyways."

What's happened is the credit markets seizing stopped the real POS people from being in the market but it has frustrated the good people. They see the POS people walking away and figure if they can't get refi then why should they stay. What good is a 7 some thing FICO if the banks have no money?
I am hearing this all the time from new in coming tenants who are renting single families from us.
 
Re: Biden -- Wants to give away houses???????

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't lowering the loans down to what the houses are worth create a chain reaction that would lower the value of every single house below that one? The houses are appraised with comps and if all the comps are now changing value overnight, what are any of them worth? Does this make sense?

No different than if the foreclosed house went on the market at the lowered price. In fact, I believe this will actually keep values up since appraisals are based on the prices of recently sold homes, which are mostly (if not all) foreclosures.

Regards,

Danny
 
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