BBSC Owners - Speak up!

[kpond]

OK, you know who you are. There has to be several of you out there now - MB has't been home in weeks!

So, for those of you with the production unit or those that have been "upgraded" to the production BBSC level, what do you say??

Is it worth the cost? Who's gone to the dyno?

Over at Chris' Science of Speed website, there's a very impressive set of graphs that show a nice, linear progression of HP. However, at the Texas dyno event, I'd say the charts were a LOT less impressive, albeit without all of the "production" parts/settings. So, with some of you undoubtedly having production-level BBSC installs - do tell. Can you feeeelll the difference or does life begin North of 5500 rpm (much less desireable in my mind.)

There's a lot of us that would like to have your feedback. Thanks in advance!

 

[MYNSX]

Not sure but I'll tell you on Monday or Tuesday evening (thats when mine will be done).
MYNSX IN AZ

------------------

 

[NSXTC]

It works great!

A better top end than the Comptech but not as much low end grunt. Boost comes in around 4,500 RPM with the standard 6 Psi pulley, as opposed to around 2,000 with the Comptech. Above 7,000 RPM, it's bye-bye baby! Get the 9 PSI BBSC (with the required internal engine work) and you'll be riding a rocket!

If you live in Woodland Hills, come out to the Red Robin in Calabasis for our dinner meeting on the 20th (sorry not the 13th) and you can see mine. Im back to driving around with the 6 PSI pulley at the moment, so it's not as impressive as it should be when it's finished. MB are you listening??

[This message has been edited by NSXTC (edited 11 June 2002).]

 

[Russ]

Originally posted by kpond:
Over at Chris' Science of Speed website, there's a very impressive set of graphs that show a nice, linear progression of HP. However, at the Texas dyno event, I'd say the charts were a LOT less impressive, albeit without all of the "production" parts/settings

That's because the promotional charts only show the action above 3000 RPM while the Texas charts show the full picture.


------------------
Russ
'91 black/black

 

[BryanZublin]

Originally posted by Russ:
That's because the promotional charts only show the action above 3000 RPM while the Texas charts show the full picture.

What do you mean by "full picture"? Both the SoS plot at http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/superchargers/BaschBoost/baschboost_rwh_1992_stock.gif
and the Texas Dyno Day report at http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004525.html
show dyno plots starting at 3000 RPM and ebding close to redline (8000 RPM).

I think Kendall's orginal comment is valid. The dyno plot on the SoS page is out of date and does not represent the "production" version. Here is my comment on the previous topic
(http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004525-2.html):

"The dyno graph dated 12-Oct-2001 (SN 945) is my 1992 NSX. The BB SC configuration at that time was with the rising rate fuel pressure regulator, stock injectors, and stock ECU chip (ie. stock timing). Since that time, the BB SC design has been changed to use stock fuel pressure, higher flow injectors, and modified ECU chip (ie. modified fuel flow and timing). I wouldn't compare the October 2001 dyno data with recent data since the October data does not represent the production BB SC configuration. I believe that the pulley used for the October data was 3.5 or 3.75 inches and the production version will use a 4 inch pulley."

I thought 4 psi was the standard boost level, but the post above lists 6 psi. I guess some clarification from MB is in order.

From my driving experience, the BBSC is very fast from 6000 to 8000 RPM. Great for the race track and the Autobahn.

Bryan Zublin

 

[gobble]

I haven't seen the dyno day results until now and have to admit that I'm really disappointed. I was seriously considering the Basch supercharger (and had the wife's approval) but now I'm not so sure. It looks like the numbers are almost identical to stock until 5,000+ RPM. Is there any way to set it up to have a more consistent power increase across the whole RPM range? It would be nice to have more consistent power for the street. I don't know about everyone else, but the time spent above 5,000 RPM is only a fraction of my street driving. The track is a different story, but this is an expensive toy just for track use.

 

[matteni]

I don't know - I kind of like the idea of stressing the engine more during spirited driving and having a normal experiance under normal driving. Just my opinion.

Would be interested to see some 1/4 times or lap times to see which is faster - but might be tough to get apples to apples. You would almost have to install and tune each on the same car on the same day to see the real differences.

The one differnce that is very obvious is the price. The other is the MB packaging is a lot more appealing then the CompTech.

------------------
Nick Matteucci

91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids

 

[Jimbo]

Gobble,

The dyno day results for the BBSC do NOT represent a production unit. All the data from that run can tell us is how that pre-production, 4 lb boost car ran that day. Pretty meaningless if you ask me.

MB was just in my area and I observed two BBSC production installs.

I even rode in one of the cars. I wasn't watching the tach because my eyeballs were punched back into my head, but I certainly thought the power was nice and linear and evident well before 6000 RPM.

My opinion only.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[gobble]

I would love to have been in that passenger seat to witness the difference myself. Was he in town installing "production" units or is it still in the "test" stage? I would be very interested to see a dyno with the production numbers.

Am I correct that the pre-production BB didn't come on line until around 5,000 RPM? I had a TT RX-7 that would boost at any RPM when I hit the throttle. Does anyone know if the boost point or curve is adjustable?

 

[gobble]

I went back and read the dyno day thread and it looks like my questions were answered as best they could at this time. I will be very anxious to see the dyno of the production unit. It will be a major disappointment to me if the BB is useless below 5,000 RPM. I don't consider the pre-production unit very useful except on the track. It would be interesting if someone could explain why the Comptech and BB results are so much different. My limited knowledge of superchargers would make me think boost is boost, but there must be other variables.

 

[gobble]

Just went to the Dali Racing site to look at the graphs and it shows $6500 for the price. Did it go up in the last few days? What happened to $5600? Science of Speed is still showing $5600.

 

[McAttack]

Has anyone out there dynoed their CTSC with the upgrade kit? I'm planning on having mine done in the next week or two but was curious about the increase over the CT 6psi at the rear wheels. My specs are:

'99 NSX-T
15.5k miles
6 speed manual
CTSC w/upgrade
(bigger injectors/regulator/smaller pulley)
CT headers, exhaust, cold air intake
all else is OEM

I was hoping for 355-360 hp at the wheels. Adjusting up 13%, it would be cool to have over 400 hp at the crank.....

 

[NetViper]

Originally posted by gobble:
Just went to the Dali Racing site to look at the graphs and it shows $6500 for the price. Did it go up in the last few days? What happened to $5600? Science of Speed is still showing $5600.

I thought the price of the BBSC was supposed to stay at 5600 but the free labor for install was over.... hmmm.. whats up with all this?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Guys,

That MAY be a typo on the pull down list on the right. If you read the text on the left side it states $5,600 and $400 for the installation.

Just some additional unsubstantiated commentary!!

Mark, you must straighten us out of this one!?!? The facts??

LarryB

 

[nsx1164]

Originally posted by McAttack:
I was hoping for 355-360 hp at the wheels. Adjusting up 13%, it would be cool to have over 400 hp at the crank.....

This should be doable.

IIRC, a friend's old CTSC Zanardi (stock boost, OEM injectors), High-Flow Air Box, Headers and Exhaust dynoed at 355.4 RWHP and 241.6 LBS rwt.

He had the 4.55 R&P, and his car was FAST.

 

[NSXGOD]

Originally posted by Larry Bastanza:
Guys,

That MAY be a typo on the pull down list on the right. If you read the text on the left side it states $5,600 and $400 for the installation.
LarryB

--------------

Hi Larry, Actually is doesn't - it says:

SuperCharger Kits: BBSC [Base Kit A]

This is the SC kit that you have been waiting for! Get Better than Big Boy performance without the Big Name Price.
The $5600.00 with free install deal is over as we have reached the target for pre sales of 30 kits. New price posted below.

Installation by Mark Basch @ the Dali Racing Area 51.5 Shop in San Diego or Basch Acura Service in Phoenix is now $400.00.
+100RWHP minimum gain guaranteed!

Cost: $6,500.00
Shipping: To Be Added
------------

The only reason that it is listed for less on the SoS site is that he has not updated his pricing to reflect the promotional period/30 unit limit ending 2 weeks ago.

------------------
need more info? please private me @

[email protected]

Mark Johnson, CEO of Custodial Services @ Dali Racing, a Not For Profit Company.

 

[cojones]

Originally posted by BryanZublin:
What do you mean by "full picture"?

By "full picture" I think folks want to find out the real-world usability of the power gains, across the entire powerband.

From my driving experience, the BBSC is very fast from 6000 to 8000 RPM. Great for the race track and the Autobahn.
True. A pronounced bump from 6-8K RPM is great for race track and open road, but may not as relevant in city driving conditions, where the CTSC/GMSC alternatives MAY pose more meaningful improvements.

I'd suggest someone do an overlay plot of Chris' BBSC with the CTSC/GMSC runs from Texas.

 

[nsx1164]

Originally posted by matteni:
The one differnce that is very obvious is the price. The other is the MB packaging is a lot more appealing then the CompTech.

Welcome, Nick... good to hear from you again.

Do I see a coming "BBSC for Dummies" writeup here? Downside is that I think your "PAM cap" airbox mod might need to be undone.

------------------
Manuel C
www.geocities.com/mcantoria/mc-toys.html

 

[gobble]

I was always led to believe that the introductory offer was the free installation and that the price would remain $5,600 but installation would be $400. It now looks like you're saying the price will be $6,500 plus $400 for installation plus $ for shipping. That's a 23% price increase. Ouch.

I guess the BBSC is no longer on my wish list. I feel cheated for spending so much time reading about it while thinking it was more affordable.

 

[NetViper]

Originally posted by gobble:
I was always led to believe that the introductory offer was the free installation and that the price would remain $5,600 but installation would be $400. It now looks like you're saying the price will be $6,500 plus $400 for installation plus $ for shipping. That's a 23% price increase. Ouch.
[/
B]

I thought the same as you. I always thought it was 5600, but the install would not be free. 6,500 is getting up there again. Why does it cost more now? Did the parts go up, or does Mark just want to make more money. (which is fine.. its his product).

Is Larry still working on a Turbo setup for cheap?

 

[Jimbo]

I currently have no immediate plans to buy a supercharger (although my recent ride in a BBSC car might change my priorities somewhat) but I always understood the price mentioned was for pre-production beta units.

I can only assume that any price increase was to cover the costs for those changes made to the final production unit (i.e. injectors, ECU chip, etc).

$6,500 is still way less than competitive offerings and the packaging and fit/finish are really nice (IMHO).

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Is a BBSC car still driveable with the SC belt detached, or is that a thing of the past also?

 

[Jimbo]

I believe you can drive it with the SC belt detached.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[8000RPM]

I recently drove Number9's CTSC Zanardi (360rwhp), and I was thoroughly impressed (thanks again, Ted, for the opportunity).

The car felt torquey down low, and then it simply takes off at the higher rpm range. Very satisfying.

So we are now looking at a price increase for the BBSC. $6,500 + $400 install = almost $7k installed. And I was recently informed by a reliable source that one can get a CTSC installed for $8k and some change.

Now with the price gap narrowing and along with the BBSC's not-so-street-friendly dyno plot, the CT and Gruppe M alternatives are starting to look better and better each day.

Where is Larry Garcia in this mix? I want to know what his $5k-installed turbo kit can do!



[This message has been edited by 8000RPM (edited 11 June 2002).]

 

[Jimbo]

"....not-so-street-friendly dyno plot..."

Of course there are no valid dyno plots for the production BBSC yet.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords