Another NSX fraud

Joined
9 September 2000
Messages
194
Location
Arcadia, Calif., USA
I just would like to alert and warn NSX owners who are trying to sell their car about potential buyers who use the information you give them to fraud other NSX buyers.

I just met with two Department of Justice officers who told me that someone has used my name and car to fraud someone in Hawaii out of $60K for a NSX he supposedly had. He ended up putting my car on eBay and got the victim to wire funds to his bank. Of course he couldn't produce the car and the victim filed a lawsuit against me since I was the only name he was given. The officers were quick to know that this was a typical internet fraud case, and if they thought I was the guilty party they would have got a warrant out for my arrest and lead me out in handcuffs.

I know exactly who the perpetrator was. He led me to believe he was extremely interested in my car and he had me first email pictures of the car then had me get an inspection at a Acura dealer, which he said he would reimburse me if the car passed. Then he made up a story that his credit union needs a copy of my driver's license and title of the car in order for them to release the funds. After I fax him this, like an idiot, he makes up another story that his credit union will not wire funds out of state and he needs to hand me the funds in person. Of course he never came through now that he had enough information to fraud someone else. What should have warned me is that he never gave me a phone number where I can reach him personally, it was always a recording. All the communications was done through email. Plus the fact he dragged it on for a long time.

I just feel so sorry for the victim who is out $60K. I plan to contact the victim as the officer gave me his phone number. I also wonder if he is a member or visitor of this forum so he can read this message. I hope they can catch this perpetrator but the officer says it is very difficult as they will transfer the funds from bank to bank, mostly to foreign countries, so it will be hard to find him. Please just be careful when giving out personal information to buyers as it can be used to fraud a potential NSX enthusiast.
 
I think it's great that you're reporting this on NSXprime, to alert everyone to this danger.

I think it's terrible that this happened. :mad:

I agree with your advice regarding giving out personal information - especially anything sensitive like a driver's license or title or anything containing a Social Security Number.

The mistake of the potential buyer was in wiring the money without receiving the car and the title in return. My understanding is that there are ways this can be handled without putting the funds at risk.

Have you reported this to eBay? What was their response? I know they have a reputation for inaction on such cases, which hurts their business.
 
Are you totally in the clear with regards to possible court action against you? It's bad that you got mixed up in this but hopefully you will not be blamed.
 
Another thing to mention is if any potential buyer comes to you with a request for information above saying that his/her credit union, bank, etc. needs copies of, just ask to have the bank's information and either have them contact you. Just be certain that it is a legitimate institution and not someone impersonating the lender. Don't trust that if you give this information to the person that they will handle it properly. Although, I've never heard of an institution asking for a seller's driver's license or other items.... have any of you?
 
A better piece of advice would be to report it to the DOJ/FBI/someone when a buyer/seller asks you for such documents, as nobody needs a copy of your driver's license/passport/title/etc for bank transfers and the like.

It is just about guaranteed that someone who asks for that kind of thing is involved in some sort of scamming.
 
dnyhof said:
Another thing to mention is if any potential buyer comes to you with a request for information above saying that his/her credit union, bank, etc. needs copies of, just ask to have the bank's information and either have them contact you. Just be certain that it is a legitimate institution and not someone impersonating the lender. Don't trust that if you give this information to the person that they will handle it properly. Although, I've never heard of an institution asking for a seller's driver's license or other items.... have any of you?

A driver's license is typically used during in-person legal transactions, to confirm identity. It is used whenever proof of your legal ability to drive a car by law is required - for example, when you get a loaner car from the dealership. It is used by insurance companies so they can pull your driving record. As far as I can determine, it is not relevant or required when you have a car to sell.

Also, a title is proof of ownership. The only person who should need to see that you own the car is a potential buyer, and no one else, not even a bank.

There is no reason why a bank would need to see either of these documents from the current owner.
 
Wow, I feel bad for both you and the Hawaii guy. Being from Hawaii I know how hard it can be to buy an NSX. Most of the time we are buying the car without actually seeing it in person and have to go by other peoples words. I mean, we can fly out there in person, but thats about an extra $1500 in round trip tickets.

I'm glad you stepped forward with your story. I hope things work out for you and the victom.
 
fraud

I truely empathize with CChung and the person in Hawaii. There is so much fraud now, and expecially with the internet, it is just another media for a con artist to use. When I bought my NSX, I thought the guy that sold it to me was trying to defraud me, because he was not producing the title after I had payed for the car. 3 months of nagging him I finally got the title, that was scarry times. I have learned my lesson. It turns out the guy was in some financial difficulty and had used the money to pay for other debts and then needed time to pay his car off so he could get the title. First off I would never pay $60K for a car I never have seen. Even if he lived in Hawaii, he could of had someone from nsxprime that lived near by the seller to confirm the car. That is what makes this nsxprime family so valuable.

Live and learn,

Paul
 
I talked to the victim today and had a very constructive discussion with him. I first posted about my end of this ordeal and now I have a little insight on what happened at his end.

The car was up on eBay in early May and the reserve was high and he bid about $60K. The reserve wasn't met but the perpetrator of this fraud said he will accept his bid since it was the hightest bid. He wired the funds and only after a month later did he realize that this was a fraud as he couldn't get a hold of him anymore and the transport company didn't receive the car. The victim emailed me all the email communications he had with this fraud and it made me sick that he used my name and address to rip this guy off. He even used a telephone number with the same area code as me but a totally wrong phone number. The way the email transactions were written I think it sounds like the same guy. I wish the victim, and I'm sure he does too, used the eBay escrow service as this fraud could have been prevented. The victim also said the seller had a stellar rating on eBay and he had no reason to doubt his validity. They decided to do the transaction outside of eBay so eBay probably has no responsibility in this matter and has failed to contact the victim.

I told the victim to check out this forum to read my message. He already has a '92 NSX and wanted a later model NSX. I told him to post here about his feelings on this matter. The victim's name is Luke and I hope you're reading this.

The officers who came to my house copied everything on my hard drive in my computer to prove that I never communicated with Luke. He said I'm pretty much in the clear and will keep me posted on any developments. I hope everyone can benefit from this experience which I just learned about today as I feel somewhat responsible for Luke's unfortunate situation.
 
nsxtasy[/i] [B]As far as I can determine said:
The guy I bought my car from needed a photocopy of my drivers license...

That's correct. It's reasonable to request that a buyer of a car, who is expected to test drive the car and/or drive it away, show proof of his legal ability to drive. Since a seller does not need to drive the car (particularly at a point in time when it is not his), there is no need to show such proof.
 
The victim also said the seller had a stellar rating on eBay and he had no reason to doubt his validity

I had my eBay user ID ripped off by some guy who was trying to sell a non-exsistent Laptop under my name. A stellar rating on eBay is no guarantee you are dealing with someone honest and legitimate. Please be carefull...'cause you never know!
 
nsxtasy said:
There is no reason why a bank would need to see either of these documents from the current owner.

I disagree with respect to the title. For some institutions, Summit CU in Madison, WI, for one, a title is required for a loan on a car purchased from a private party.

I had to have the seller overnight the title to my BMW to the CU before they would wire the funds to the seller.
 
nsxxtreme said:
What I want to know is how this guy got the money? If he wired it to a bank did he wire it under your name? How did he collect it?

I would love to hear the answer to this one. Perhaps he used the same name and had forged ID, or maybe he got the buyer to send it to a different name, which should have raised a red flag IMHO.
 
brahtw8 said:
I disagree with respect to the title. For some institutions, Summit CU in Madison, WI, for one, a title is required for a loan on a car purchased from a private party.

I had to have the seller overnight the title to my BMW to the CU before they would wire the funds to the seller.

Okay, I wasn't clear. The title is always required as part of the sale transaction. It is proof of ownership, so what you are buying, essentially, is the car and its title. At the time that money changes hands, the title - signed over to the new owner - should be changing hands as well. As it did in your case.

What I intended to indicate was that, before the sale takes place, the title - at that time, still in the name of the selling owner - doesn't really prove ownership for the buying owner, so the bank would not be interested in it.
 
When I bought one of mine I requested their driver's license, so they could at least prove who they were. This was an out of state sale. Imagine someone selling you someone elses car that is on vacation. It's a stretch but it could happen. All I wanted was a picture of the drivers license with the ID number covered. In a lot of states this isn't even confidential information. You can just call DMV and ask for it. Not giving out a phone number is what would have tipped me off. I had his home and work number. He also owed money on the car so I dealt with his bank. I am not sure I would buy a car from someone that actually owned the title, at least not without being there in person to take delivery.
 
...
What I intended to indicate was that, before the sale takes place, the title - at that time, still in the name of the selling owner - doesn't really prove ownership for the buying owner, so the bank would not be interested in it. [/B]

My bank needed a copy of the title to verify that it was not salvaged, flooded, etc. and to prove the car did in fact exist.

All of this was need prior to funding, which is required before the seller would sign the title over.

Makes paperless title transfers difficult... Ask me how I know.

Jonathan
 
Jonathan --

I give. How do you know?

Doug
 
Maybe I just dont know what im talking about, however - I heard that using IP adresses you can get alot of information about someone and perhaps even pinpoint a location / name / adress using the ISP it goes to.

I hope they catch the person who stole the $60k.
 
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